8 month old waking at 5am - throwing the whole day out!!

[AbbG]

I dropped a feed as I just couldn't work out how to fit in 4 feeds any more, based on the new routine, also he was taking much less in the 2 middle of day feeds so it seemed to make sense.

He's been on 3 meals for around 2 months - a sleep consultant I spoke to at 5 months suggested it.

I'm really not sure how much he takes at night as he's still breast fed and he doesn't just jump off as he does during the day (plus I'm half asleep!).  He does fall asleep during the feed (thus the nappy change at the end to ensure I'm not simply feeding him to sleep!).

[becj86]

Ok, I see, sorry not sure why I thought you were bottle feeding. Extra solids to help baby STTN is an old wives tale that is just plain wrong most of the time. It helps a small proportion of babies but when they're reducing their milk intake to accommodate solids, they still need the calories from milk some time and they take it at night. Its still within the realms of normal to have one night feed at this age, but really, I think its reasonable to not want to feed 3 times a night and also a reasonable expectation of baby to not need 3 feeds in the night.

I would probably cut back a bit on the solids and put milk in their place. Something like this:
7 - WU, milk
8/8:30 - breakfast
10:15 - nap
11:45 - WU, milk
1ish - lunch
2:45 - nap
4:15/4:30 - WU, milk
5:30 - small dinner
7 - BT BF
clean teeth, etc.
7:30 - asleep in bed for the night

Another way to sneak in calories during the day is to give EBM or formula in a cup/bottle with meals rather than water - made a world of difference for my DS at around this age.

[AbbG]

Thanks.

I think I'll start with offering a sippy cup with formula at lunch and with the small snack after 2nd sleep.

He also has formula on breakfast (maybe 80ml), so this, along with some from sippy cup during the day should help (I hope).

I'm keen to leave it at just 3 breast feeds during the day and he's a pain taking formula from a bottle, so will play around with the supply cups / formula bottle after first sleep and see why works.

Yesterday I was out so only gave the am and pm feed and he didn't take much of his bottle during the day (maybe 100mls) and he woke at 10 and hubby resettled and then at 1.10 (I fed) and stirred at 5, finally up for day at 6.15 - not bad really.... But it does seem that he has a limit of 5 hours sleep after that first breast feed at night - he always seems awake 5 hours later. So the trick would be to move this as late as possible.

I wonder if trying wake to sleep before I go to bed at around 9 would help? Or whether we just need to aim to resettle any time before 1am. Any hints to stretch that 5 hours to 7ish hours?

Sorry another quick question... He had just 1 hour sleep this morning, I'm not really sure why (maybe the poo he had when I got him up!)  I may have forgotten awake time so put him down early but will keep an eye on it unless he needs another awake time bump. But, should I do the full 3 hours I've been doing before second sleep off the back of a shorter 1 hour sleep, don't want to do too early (under tired, not enough sleep) or too late (overtired only 30 minutes sleep!)... Not sure what's best!

[becj86]

 OT is easiest to resettle so I tend to err on the side of OT.

If he's waking bang on 5hr from BT, WTS can be helpful at 4hr from BT.

[AbbG]

So, I've moved morning wake time to 3 hours 30 minutes for about a week, and second awkae time has generally been around 3 hours 30 minutes too - he started taking longer to go to sleep. This generally resulted in two naps of around 1.5 hours.

However that morning awake time seems to have levelled again... yesterday it was 1 hour 20 and today 1 hour! and today was closer to 3 hours 40 mins awake time.

I'm worried about bumping up awake time again as it's going to get harder to fit in two naps! I cant just keep on extending awake time again and again - can I? I'm sure that i dont want to find myself with a bub taking 1 nap at 12 months old?!

There has to be another reason his naps keep getting short?! Maybe its the 8-10 month sleep regression Ive read a little about?

 

[becj86]

I cant just keep on extending awake time again and again - can I?

Yes, you can - really you will likely end up with one short nap and one long one. I tend to recommend to plan for the long nap in the am so that if it goes to pot, you have another chance at a long nap

I'm sure that i dont want to find myself with a bub taking 1 nap at 12 months old?!

That depends if you want a 9hr night or an 11-12hr night... if you keep 2 x 1.5hr naps at 12 months, you could well end up with a 9-10hr night. It depends a lot on the child.

There has to be another reason his naps keep getting short?! Maybe its the 8-10 month sleep regression Ive read a little about?

Its pretty normal to have one nap short and one long at around this age, even at 8 months, TBH so  you're doing well to have had him sleep as much as he has up til now.

[AbbG]

Thanks.

Today was a disaster, 5.40 wake up (and had a poo so no chance of resettling).
1 hour nap in the morning
30 minute second nap which I managed to help him extend, but only by 45 minutes - so I ended up holding him so that he got another 50 mins of sleep. Lucky DS1 was at daycare or none of that would have been possible!
I do think we need less wake time through the day (as you said you found with one of your bubs).

So, for when we get there... 4 hours A time would likely be ....

6am wake
10 -11.30 sleep
3/3.30 / 4/4.15
Bed 7.30ish

I'm a little apprehensive about bumping A time too much, my first son was no where near this (and was sleeping through by now, and waking at 7pm most days!) and it just seems like I'm bumping A time very quickly at the moment!

[becj86]

Can you write out how the last few days have been in EAS format? I'm having trouble picturing it - sorry, my brain is a little mushy right now.

I think you're picking the signs that A time needs increasing quite well from what you're saying - really if you don't increase when you see these signs, you end up with no restorative naps, OT baby and more night wakings, so better to bump up - even if you're a little ahead of where he should be, the routine will settle in a few days to a week anyway, so try not to worry too much. Easier said than done, I know.

[AbbG]

Sure... I tried to do last night but couldn't remember my password! And today i can't remember the day before yesterday!

Can I first ask 2 questions?

1) based on the above routine for 4 hours, bub would get around 10.5 hours overnight and around 1.5 + 1 hours during the day = 14 hours.... Does that sound about right / long enough?

2) once the above stops working, does the transition to 1 nap begin? Just seems so early!



Yesterday

Wake 5.40
Asleep 9.17 to 10.17
Asleep 1.47 to 2.17 (put down 20 minutes earlier),  2.30 to 3.15 (resettled with patting), 3.25 to 4.15 (held to encourage more sleep)
Asleep by 7.15
Wake & feed 2am

Today

Wake 5.55
Asleep 9.45 stirred at 10.55 and resettled quickly. Awake 11.08 - still seems like a short nap doesn't it?

[becj86]

1) based on the above routine for 4 hours, bub would get around 10.5 hours overnight and around 1.5 + 1 hours during the day = 14 hours.... Does that sound about right / long enough?

Yes, seems normal to me... maybe you were blessed with a sleeper the first time around

2) once the above stops working, does the transition to 1 nap begin? Just seems so early!

You can fiddle around with it a bit so you can shorten the catnap to 20min and there's a short AM / long PM nap routine you can do for a bit if he starts refusing the PM nap but yes, this routine often sticks for a while - even up to 14-15 months before it gets tricky. I think be prepared for the 2-1 to start to happen around 12-15 months knowing it will take a while.

[AbbG]

Hey BecJ.
We are now 9 months old and doing around 3.40, 3.20, and then 3 hours before bed. All these are based upon longish naps, where he has ashorter nap these are 15-20 mins shorter.
Weird thing is that the morning sleep has become a bit hit or miss for a little over a week. From time to time he wakes after 45/50 minutes quite upset. Sometimes he can be resettled, sometimes not. I.e. This morning
Woke 6.30
Asleep 10.12ish
Woke 11.05 - really upset, couldn't resettle... However, with the same timing he's had long morning naps other days? Teething maybe? (20 minutes later he's still quite upset, although he was fine before bed), he also has a cold so I guess that could also be it - I just can't remember from # 1

I tend to follow a short nap with 3 hours of awake time which seem to help him catch up and have a big sleep in the arvo.

[becj86]

Yep, could well be teething or cold - sounds like he'd rather still be sleeping, so I'd let him get over his cold before changing anything

Sounds like you've found something that works and a workaround for the times it doesn't. That's great. So is the 6:30 WU!

[AbbG]

Yep, mostly going well. Having one short and one long nap a day (long in morning mostly).
He's even staryed waking after 7! Well, I don't let him sleep too far beyond though!
These recent wake ups are confusing me due to nap length and tears, doesn't really add up!

He did the same thing this afternoon, woke, tried to rollover and resettle but couldn't and got really upset, didn't respond to me trying to resettle him so I had to get him up, my plan was to rock him back to sleep and hold him for the rest of his required sleep, but he was so upset that I gave him some medicine... Soon after he was snoring in my arms - was a little unsettled so not sure what was going on. Fingers crossed it will pass - whatever it is!