Author Topic: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.  (Read 3849 times)

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Offline Jojo290615

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Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« on: May 17, 2016, 08:21:09 am »
Hi

Can anyone advise me on lo's napping schedule?

I am having difficulty lately fitting 2 naps in during the day. Especially the second one .. Lo takes quite a while to get to sleep and will often only sleep for 30 minutes. The afternoon nap seems to also interfere with bedtime. Lo takes quite a long time to settle, wants to stand up and cries when we leave the room. ( I will take this issue to another thread :) )
The first nap is also getting a bit tough ..  I'm pretty sure that he could go down at 10:00 without any problem but this would push everything back further regarding second nap.

Here is my lo EASY schedule.
6:00 WU and milk
8:00 breakfast solids
9:30 nap
11:00 WU and snack
13:00 lunch solids
14:30 nap
15:00/15:30 WU milk
17:00 diner
18:00 bedtime routine and milk at 18:30

He will usually fall asleep around 19:00/19:15 but this is only if we are there to settle him.
We used to be able to just lay him down , he would fall asleep by himself. But now he stands up and wants to play.
He has also been waking up crying about an hour later .. Not sure if this is to do with the naps and being UT or separation anxiety. its not like him at all.

We don't really want him to go to bed -and fall asleep later than 19:00

Not sure what to do.. Any advice would be very welcome :)

Thank you !!:)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:24:29 am by Jojo290615 »

Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 13:18:19 pm »
Hi Jojo!

Ah, you've hit the can't force him to stay laying/not enough hours in the day era. ;)

Here are some links that might give you insight to this stage... then come back and let us know what you think and we can go from there.

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

Developmental Milestones

May I also suggest jumping on this board with fellow BWs transitioning from 2 to 1 nap?
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27




Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 17:22:43 pm »
Hi Ginger !
Thanks for the reply :)
Yes and the not wanting to be changed, hands and face washed era !!  ;D and today not wanting to sit in his high hair era. ! 😬

I think the solution that would suit my lo would be the short AM nap and longer PM nap.
He does tend to wake up early and need a longer A time before bedtime. Especially these days .. He just wants to play at bedtime! he gets loads of floor time, and he knows how to sit back down again! But as soon as we lay him down .. He pops back up again and if we go out the room he will cry and grizzle arrrrrgg !

What times would you advise according to my Easy schedule?
Thanks!

Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 17:46:03 pm »
Oh yes! Change refusal was strong with my DS. ;)

I would try the first nap at 9:45, and cap it by 15mins.  Bring pm nap up to 2:15.

OR, if you think your LO can adjust quickly or happens to have a short am nap one day,

Nap 1 9:45, cap at 45 min (eventually to 30 min)
Nap 2 2:00

Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 18:11:16 pm »
Thanks Ginger !
How long would you recommend the second nap ?

Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2016, 18:37:47 pm »
Not sure actually... you want a bedtime of 7:00, but that'll require a wake up around 2:30/3:00 which makes for a short pm nap if it starts at 2:15!

Until you get the am nap to 30 mins, the pm nap will be close to where it is currently, which does push your bedtime later.  So tbh, you might have to push bt later temporarily, until you bring the pm nap much earlier. OR you start the 30 min am nap right away. What do you think?

Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2016, 06:29:41 am »
Hi again:)
Funny enough yesterday morning I put lo down for his morning nap .. And he didn't fall asleep until 9:45, then he woke at 10:30!
So his afternoon nap started at 2:00pm but also didn't want to sleep ! Grrr ! He drifted off around 2:15 and I woke him at 3:30.. He was asleep by 7:00. And woke up at 6:00 this morning sleeping through the night.

Not sure if it has much to do with tiredness right now.. It seems he is fighting naps and doesn't want to miss out on anything! And doesn't want to be alone !

I think I will give the short AM nap a go .. 30 mins and try and put him down abut before 14:00 so he has time to settle. And maybe wake him at 3:15 ..
Is this enough sleep do you think ?



Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2016, 12:38:40 pm »
Great news about the night!

Total day sleep is lower than avg but it seems ok.  1hr30min is 2 sleep cycles, so he'll feel better rested after that instead of 1:15. But it's up to you! For the pm nap at 2:00, I wouldn't put him down too much before 2:00, less he is not sleepy enough. Maybe like 1:55 or so.

Haha, yes they don't want to miss a beat! 

Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2016, 06:33:43 am »
Hi there !

The short morning nap didn't really work out ... I woke him 40 minutes after putting him down. And was tired and grumpy all morning:( he went down quite easy for his afternoon nap so that was positive.. And he was easier to put down for bedtime !
But he woke at 2:00 and didn't fall back for 45 minutes , then he woke at 5:30!! :(
So he is back to taking a long morning nap at 9:30 until 10:45/11:00( wakes up by himself ) then I put him down 14:25 and he sleeps for around 30 minutes. And is sleeping before 19:00 and sleeps through yay !! BUT his new waking time seems to be getting earlier 😭 5:20 this morning !

so not sure what to do :(

Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2016, 00:08:28 am »
I've definitely heard of people here having to switch from short am cn to short pm cn (which i also did in a way). Again, great news about the night but that EW isn't pleasant, is it? I'm thinking after a long am nap, the afternoon A can be slightly longer but definitely capped. You can try working towards making that pm nap 25 min, 20 min, etc.. Every 3-4 days. It's however slow or fast your little man will adjust. So for example,
2:30pm, 25 min for a few days
2:35pm, 20 min, etc...

Hopefully this will allow him to tack on to night sleep. Once morning wake ups get later, you'll have to simultaneously move morning nap time later. So 9:35, 9:45, etc...

If your DS usually adjusts well to quick changes, I would push the morning nap to 10 as soon as you can, and start moving pm naptime, too. This may help with EWs

 This phase was the longest and many, many adjustments are usually made. So it's ok not to expect one nap at 11:30/11:45 for a while yet. As you probably already read about. Hang in there! And we had horrible nights during this time so it's great to hear DS is doing great with ONS. :)

Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 08:00:08 am »
Hi ginger !
Thanks for that :)

Today I have started the long AM short Pm nap.

Lo has been waking up in the night around 4 for the last couple of days and still early waking.

So I put him down at 9:45 ... And let him sleep as long as wants.
Then for the pm nap I'll put him down 2:30pm for 25 mins

Still a bit confused about the pm nap..  As bubs morning nap gets closer to the pm nap do I make the pm nap later ?

He has also been waking up about an hour after we put him down at bedtime. Do you know what this is due to ?

Just a quick update

Lo fell asleep at 9:45 and slept until 12:00 where I woke him up. He was probably catching up from yesterday where he was an hour late for his bedtime .. We were out and had train problems :(

Anyway .. Pm nap was tough for him to get to sleep. Finally slept at 2:50 I will wake him at 3:15. 

Should I let him sleep until he wakes for the am nap or cap it ? If so how long ?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 13:08:08 pm by Jojo290615 »

Offline ginger428

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2016, 18:38:53 pm »
Still a bit confused about the pm nap..  As bubs morning nap gets closer to the pm nap do I make the pm nap later ?

Yes! Towards the end of our transition, the pm nap was at 5:00 for 10-15 mins in the car!

He has also been waking up about an hour after we put him down at bedtime. Do you know what this is due to ?

He can definitely be OT with the transition. Naps ending at before 3 will be hard to make it to bedtime, so adjust the start of the pm nap if he has a long am one... to answer this question-

Should I let him sleep until he wakes for the am nap or cap it ? If so how long ?

He was probably very UT for the pm nap if had just ended at 12:00. Keep morning nap at a set time, but adjust the start of the afternoon nap and bedtime. For instance...

Wu 6:00
Nap 10-12
Nap 4:00-4:25
Bedtime 7:00

If he has a shorter am nap:
Nap 10-11:30
Nap 3:30-3:55
Bedtime 6:45ish if needed

Should I let him sleep until he wakes for the am nap or cap it ? If so how long ?

No, because this is the nap you want to keep. =)

Hope that helps!




Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2016, 21:15:04 pm »
Thanks ginger !
Had a weird day yesterday. Lo fell asleep the night before last perfect .. No crying no fussing ..said good night and he fell asleep alone at around 6:45 pm. He has been really good at falling asleep alone from around 6 months. Until about a month ago.. Where we need to settle him.. No rocking in arms etc but just ssshing him in his crib.
 He slept through until 5:00 woke up crying but we settled him back very easy ... Then he slept until 6:40!!!! So this kind of threw the day out a bit.
So I put him down for his nap at 10:30... 4 hours A time. He woke at 12:00.
Then I put him down for his cat nap at 3:20 pm and woke him 25 mins later. I was worried that leaving it until 16:00 would interfere with bedtime.
He was a bit cranky and tired .. So I thought maybe an earlier bedtime ?.. I made sure he was in bed at 6:30pm .. He was not happy ! He was crying fussing , moving all over the place!  So maybe could he be overtired ? He would not fall asleep without me standing there. Anyway he finally fell asleep around 7:20! PM. He slept through until 5:30! Arrrrgg! Didn't want to go back to sleep.
I put him down for his nap today at 10:00 trying to have a set time for this nap. He fell asleep within 2 mins and He slept until 11:20 managed to settle him back again and he woke at 12:10...

He had a cat nap in the car at 3:30 as we were invited out for diner. Bedtime and evening was a bit messy as we were not home. Hope it won't mess his night up!

Anyway i Just have a few questions.. Hehe

-What happens if he does wake up earlier in the morning,  later than 6:00. Or earlier Should I keep a fixed time for the first nap ? Or stick to 4 hours A time ..

-I'm a bit worried that if he sleeps past 4:00pm that this interferes with his bedtime ? Or ?

- I'm also having a bit of trouble with his feeding times.
Before we followed EASY
Milk when he wakes
Snack after first nap
Lunch around 12:30/1:00
Milk after afternoon nap at 15:30
Then diner at 5:00
And milk at bedtime
but now I'm finding it hard to fit the mid morning snack in. I have been giving it to him before his 10:00 nap but he has breakfast at 8:00 so he is not that bothered and only has a couple of bites of banana.
Do you have any suggestions for a new EASY plan ?





Offline creations

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2016, 07:54:42 am »
Hi there Jojo
I found the 2-1 very messy tbh, in the end for me the only solution was to move to one nap, expect the worse, and hope for the best.

It looks to me like your LO might be able to hang on to the second nap for a little while but perhaps only if the A times are long enough and this may mean moving BT later for a little while.  I know you want BT at 7pm but it's a short term move really, once he moves to 1 nap BT would come earlier so the Y time you lose now you regain at a later date (hopefully!).

To me it looks like you might be able to try something like:
WU 6
A 4hr (and increasing)
S 10 - 12 (and getting later)
A 3hr 30
CN 3.30 - 4 (and decreasing length, I see you are at about 25 mins now so this can be reduced over time)
A 4hr (mine would find this impossible, it would be too long after a CN but yours looks like he needs/wants this 4hr before BT would you agree?)
BT 8pm (this would be the latest)

A logically smooth way forward would be that the first nap remains long and is moved later and later in the day (until you get roughly A 5hr, S 2hr, A 5hr, and 12hr night) and at the same time the CN reduces in length by the CN starting later and ending at roughly the same time.  Thing is with sleep though is that often these things do not follow the logical or smooth plan we have in mind.

A little experience of my own - my DS did a marvellous 2hr morning nap and I felt logically he would continue to do this, I could drop the CN and move BT earlier - wrong - he started OT waking from his nap and it was very hard work for a time for me to get him back to sleep.  Daily screaming mid nap, not pretty and I was pretty much forcing him back to sleep (rather than soothing back to sleep I was telling/instructing him to go back to sleep, kind of a mummy knows best attitude!), eventually I was able to W2S every 20 mins through his nap to keep him asleep and avoid the screaming WUs and as he overcame his OT and as he learned that he really must stay asleep for the full nap things got better. Eventually he had that 2hr nap back on track and our 2-1 transition was complete.  The 2hr nap routine lasted about 1.5 years just moving slightly later as needed. What I'm saying is this time might be incredibly hard for you, but once you are through it you will hopefully enjoy some predictability and a sound routine for quite some time :)

As things progress you might get to a point where you feel you'd rather move directly to one nap and ride it out, as I did.

You might, with 2 naps, find some days where skipping the CN is preferable for instance if LO wakes later in the morning (say 7am or after) as the day could then look more like:
WU 7
A 4hr 30 (remember this is an increasing A time so whilst it may be 4hr now you will be moving it up to keep LO settling well and keep the nap long - I'm just showing a guidance here)
S 11.30 - 1.30
A 4hr
BT 5.30 (yes it's very early, LO could do a one off 13hr night having missed a CN or may wake at 5.30 meaning the following day 2 naps are needed to get through the day)

These are all just examples and not strict schedule times.

WRT to E times I would just squeeze them in wherever you can.  If you are not sure if he will eat well serve a small portion of what you have prepared so that the rest can be saved for later if needed.

hope this helps some :)


Offline Jojo290615

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Re: Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2016, 09:03:04 am »
Thanks creations !

When should I continue to increase the A times ? And decreasing the cat nap ? Should it be every 3/4 days or longer ?