Need advice with 11 month napping schedule.

[creations]

Yes 3 days sounds good for increases.
If you hit upon a time when things look settled and great then just stop there...if you don't then I'd keep on moving towards that nap drop. It is really going to depend on LO, not watching every single nuance of time shifts but the overall mood and reaction to capped CN and increased A times.
Some people have found it smooth going, increasing A, reducing CN say down to 20 mins staying there a while then reducing down to say 10 mins every day and staying there until it needed changing again and then dropping the CN but I know mine wouldn't have done it that way so it really depends on the individual.

[Jojo290615]

Great thanks ! Ill see how things go over a couple days and as you said if he sleeps through and wakes up at 6:00 a happy baby .. Then I'll keep the routine until we need to change again !

[ginger428]

Hoping for many 6:00+ wake ups and solid nights for you!!!

Thanks for helping Creations. 

[Jojo290615]

Hi !
Here is a little update.

After the last post I wrote here things went pretty good.. He kind of fell back to our old routine.
WU 5:45
E
A
S:9:45-11:00
E
A
S: 2:45pm-15:30
E
A
S: 6:30pm

I found that if I put him to bed later he would wake up earlier .. So I tried putting him to bed a bit earlier and it worked. 5:45 stills bit early but I can handle that .. I often leave him to babble and play happily until 6:30 anyway.
This worked for about 1 week, then he started waking up at 5:00 again !! Grrr. So I stretched his awake time eventually to 10:15 and he was back on track. However he doesn't sleep longer than 1h15 for that first nap !! So needs a bit longer catnap around 2:45. The problem is where I am eventually increasing the first A time to transition to 1 nap the afternoon cat nap needs to be a bit longer but is getting later. Because 1h15 nap is not really enough. He is a bit grumpy .
Here was our easy yesterday..
WU : 5:45
S: 10:30-11:50
S 3:10-3:40pm (had to wake him and he was grumpy )
S:6:40

He always seems to wake about an hour later after bedtime crying, he is easy to settle though.

Last night we had two night wakings. At 10:00 and 12:30 but quite easy to get back. I first heard him around 6:00.. He was standing up crying in his cot .. Which is a bit unusual. I normally give him a book and toy to play with in his cot while I get dressed and wake up a bit . But this morning he was having none of it.

He has just entered leap 8 .. And these leaps are very predictable with my lo. So could be why he is a bit cranky.

Should I increase the first A time already to get a longer nap ? I have tried being there to resettle about 10 minutes before he wakes up. Yesterday I was tried for 25 minutes to get him back . It didn't work... He was yawning but where he has slept quite well .. He isn't quite tired enough to go back.

I am tempted to try short am nap and long pm nap but somehow my gut feeling tells me he needs that long morning nap. He has always slept longer in the morning .
What do you think ?

[creations]

Hi, it's great things went well for a while
The 2-1 is a tricky time, well it was for me and my DS!  I envy those who find a smooth route through the transition.  The thing to remember though is that you *will* get through it even if it's a rough patch, eventually the routine does work out and settle back down again.

I would say, looking at your times, that now might be the time to make the leap to 1 nap.  You already have a feeling of moving the first nap a bit later which would help with a resettle or a W2S to get a longer nap, and as soon as you get a longer nap it becomes hard to fit in that CN so instead you go for EBT.
Your routine might look something like this:
WU 5.45
A 5hr
S 10.45/11 - 1.00
A 4 hr
BT 5.00
Although like I said, it is not always smooth going.  My DS suddenly stopped doing his regular 2hr nap when we dropped to 1 nap and was doing 20 mins OT napping instead, my only option was to W2S or resettle as many times as I could to get some sleep into him and eventually he settled back down onto his 2hr nap.
Moving to 1 nap *can* mess that nap up because of the OT involved, but there may not be other options which work any better.
If your LO is okay with a capped CN (is see he was grumpy when you capped the CN, this is okay if he recovers relatively quickly though with some cuddles and time to wake up) then you can keep capping it shorter and shorter over the coming weeks keeping in mind that he might be grumpy after that CN.
It may also be an option for a short time to allow a full CN but to move BT later.  This could work for a little while because you may then get a slightly later WU in the morning and gradually the first nap moves a bit later etc.  Clearly you can't do this indefinitely as WU and BT both move and need to stop at a reasonable time...but it could get you through a couple of weeks and by then he may be more able to cope with a longer second A time and then EBT or a capped cN.  A few weeks different in development really can make a difference to the ability to cope with tiredness.

So there are a few ideas there for you to think about, only you really know what will suit your LO best or what you prefer to try.
Personally I would not switch to a short am nap.  I would maintain the habit of a long nap as much as you possibly can, encouraging that nap to lengthen and move later in the day...it eventually comes at late morning/lunch time and as he gets older it may be in the early afternoon.

Keep in mind too that whilst on 2 naps your LO is unlikely to do a longer night.  When you cap the CN or cut it out and move to 1 nap your LO will likely extend the night sleep.  You might see 12 hrs per night rather than the 11 you currently get.

Hope this helps some

[Jojo290615]

Hi creations
Thanks for your reply and advice

The day of my post on Sunday . Lo napped  from 10:30am to 12:20 pm ! Yay
He had a cn around 3:45.. For 15 minutes. Then bedtime was 6:30pm.
Slept through but a bit agitated in his sleep. And he woke up 5:30. 

Had a messy day Monday ..  Had to be out of the house as a repair man was there.  So I took lo to the park to nap.. He always naps in his pram but usually on the terrace. He woke up after an hour, saw we weren't home and wouldn't fall back again.
 
Our day was the following
WU: 5:30!!!! Grrr
S: 10:30- 11:30
S 2:50- 15:30
S: 6:30 PM

And Yesterday he woke at 5:15!! I tried to resettle him but this didn't work .. And it was then 6:00 so I gave in

I was a little stuck on when to give him his nap..  But I really want to keep up the same time so he went down at 10:45 which is a long A time
He woke again after an hour ! And was quite hard to get back again but I managed and he slept until 13:15

We kept an eye on his cues , sleepiness and so on.. And he was great all afternoon .. So we skipped the cat nap and put him to bed at 6:00 and he fell asleep quite fast. He woke an hour later but was easy to resettle again . He then slept through until 5:45 !!!!! Yay !! So that was really good !
 So today I kept the same first A times as yesterday  .. 5.5 hours and put him down at 11:15. I put him in his crib, instead of his pram.. Thinking he might sleep better... He woke after an hour , I started to resettle a bit before .. But he woke up .. And immediately tried to stand up ( which he can't do in his pram !) I tried to settle him for 40 minutes .. Impossible , the little devil was having non of it ! Haha so I opted for the early bedtime 5:30pm.  Let's see how the night goes .. And WU..!

Is this waking after an hour nap over tiredness ? How can I get past it ? Just resettle and eventually he will transition to 2 hours ? Because before he would sleep 1h20 minutes in the morning.

This is definitely a tricky phase !
 

[Jojo290615]

Hi just wanted to update you quickly on how the night went.. I put lo down for an SEBT at 5:30 pm , he slept through until 5:30 am bless him so he is doing his 12 hours a night and catching up on his sleep. So hopefully no OT is creeping in yet.
Just need to get him to sleep longer for his nap and then gradually move things forward.

[creations]

The 1hr nap could be OT yes.  I think the only things you can do really (which you are already doign) is to aim to be consistent with the nap time so he can get used to it and to keep resettling him at that WU both to teach him he needs to sleep and to help him avoid further OT.
an hour is quite good in my opinion as mine started doing 20 min naps during the 2-1!!!! Imagine!  I was pretty much fighting him back to sleep until I worked out the W2S could help.

Honestly I think you're doing really well - keep going xx

[Jojo290615]

Thanks ! im really proud of him .. so far hehe !

Oh wow the 20 minutes must have tough!
Actually today lo slept the full 2 hours ! 11:15-1:15 !  I tried something a bit different today.. Lo slept in his pram in the bedroom .. I was ready in the room for his hour wake up but hid a bit.. He stirred and fussed a minute, I jiggled the pram lightly but stayed out of sight and he resettled. I wonder if when he sees me .. This wakes him up more ! I'll try the same tomorrow again..
So tonight, I'll try for a 6:15 bedtime .. Watching his cues etc !
Actually his A time was a bit longer today .. 5h45 ... He pooed last minute so went down a bit later for his nap.
If all goes well today and he sleeps through to around 6:00am .. Would you recommend keeping this routine for a while ? or pushing back gradually the A time until it reaches 12:30pm ? ( after lunch nap ? )

[creations]

Wow you really are doing so so well!

I like your jiggling in the pram thing at the 1hr mark.  It really does help to teach them to stay asleep even if they are usually fully independent.  I'd do that a few days and then try to hold off from doing it to see what happens as you don't want a long term prop - although saying that I had to do the 20 min W2S several times per nap for weeks to get my DS back on track!  he did not lose his ability to self sooth he was just so OT he couldn't sleep properly (but wouldn't take 2 naps either so there was no choice but to stick to 1 nap and make the most of it).

Would you recommend keeping this routine for a while ? or pushing back gradually the A time until it reaches 12:30pm ?

I'd stick with the time for a while, if morning Wu moves later then I'd shift the nap a little later to account for it, aiming for a set nap time rather than flexi times based on A times but even with a set nap we move it to suit the routine and then stick there.
I think he is likely too young yet to move to an after lunch nap which makes the morning A time very long...over time you will likely end up doing this though if/when he shows UT signs for the nap, meanwhile a good snack in the  morning and then late lunch should be okay, or some people do split lunches half before nap half after.  Mine needed a very substantial morning snack which was more like lunch really, it's just about being prepared for that and having the right kind of foods available at that time because you don't want to increase snack by just giving more and more fruit or more and more rice cakes yk? If the appetite is there then increase the fats/proteins and carbs and veggies into more of a meal even if it seems a bit of an odd time for it.

[Jojo290615]

Great then when he settles fully with the new routine, then I'll stick to it

I was a bit stuck for snacks and lunch etc.. I remember you mentioning the big snack before the nap.. So I did this with lo yesterday and today. He eats mainly finger foods for lunch.. Sandwich, omelette etc with veggies and fruit. So I split the lunch into two big snacks. Cheese sandwich with veggies and some yoghurt. Before and after nap. And it seemed to work fine. I'll give him some fruit for his afternoon snack then it's diner time haha!! I feel he is eating all day 😀

Thanks again for all your help and advice !

[creations]

Your meals sound great.  I know it seems like they eat all day!

[Jojo290615]

Hi again !
I think I need to tweak the napping schedule a bit but not sure how to go about it .


Lo slept the other day for only one hour nap so I did a SEBT and he slept 12 hours.
The last two days he has managed to sleep 2 hour nap but is sleeping 11 hours.

This was Thursday
WU:5:30
S 11:15-1-15 pm
S 18:15

I thought I would try an early bedtime to see if he would wake up a bit later like he did the other day.
Friday :
WU: 5:20
S: 11:15-1-20
S: 5:45

Today he woke at 5:15!!
So it seems that he does t sleep more than 11 hours at night.

The problem is it's getting earlier and earlier so today the first nap will be earlier.. So I'll have to give him a cat nap or he he will be going to bed super earlier and waking up earlier .

I need to get him on a 6:00 am wake up.
What do you think ?
How long should I let him cn for ? I have a feeling that cn also make him wake up a bit early too.

Thanks xxx

[creations]

I would just continue as you are doing one nap and then the odd day with a short CN if and when you feel he needs it or to help move BT later.  If he will still take a short CN and still do BT afterwards then that is a great solution.  it's more difficult if LO refuses one or the other.
I think you did a 15 min CN before so perhaps that's a good length to try.

[Jojo290615]

Thanks creations !

Lo woke up after 1h20 ...of his morning nap,  he resettled again but woke up after about 10 minutes. So "only" had 1h30 mins so had a can nap when out for a walk around 4pm for 20 minutes.. We put him to bed for 6:45 and he fell asleep around 7:15pm .. Had a tough time getting him to sleep.  Woke up a couple of times after that. But could be the leap 8

He woke around 5 this morning but resettled 20 minutes later until 6:30 so that's good we have reset bedtime now. So today will be one nap

Just wondering when they do have catnaps say for 20 minutes, what is their awake time before bedtime ?

Also this waking up after 1:20 mins.. Could this mean UT? He is currently on 5h45 A time ? Should I increase a bit ?