Helping baby learn how to self soothe to sleep

[albers30]

I have a nine month old who's schedule it as follows.

Wake 630-7
Activity
Breakfast
Activity
Nap 10-11 give or take 30 minutes
Activity
Lunch
Activity
Nap 2-3 give or take 30 minutes depending on length of first nap
Activity
Dinner 6 pm, bath, quiet playtime/reading bed 7/730

She's never been a baby with a lot of sleep crutches.  She doesn't use a paci, she doesn't like to be rocked, she weaned herself at 6 months so she's on bottles now and she generally gets one before naps/ bedtime but doens't fall asleep while eating.  She does fight sleep like no other baby I've ever known though. That kid will happily go along for hours and hours without sleep and might show a few signs of sleepiness but no fussiness.  Sometimes it can be difficult to get her to take a nap or go to bed but once you get her to a drowsy state she's easily laid down and falls to sleep either with a pat just a hand on her back or sometimes even just standing in the room with her.  However, if you are not present the kid won't go to sleep and i've tried all the PUPD, WIWO, etc and she just carries on for hours. I think this is the reason she continues to wake frequently at night. The other factor is she's been a co-sleeper from about 5 am on since she was born but she's been demanding to come to bed earlier and earlier in the night too which is another factor I know is contributing.  Ideas on how to sleep train?  I've tried the usual like I said above which worked with our twins but over a week later we've made no progress.

[Buntybear]

Hi - how long are her naps and have you tried gradual withdrawal yet? If she co-sleeps and seems to need your presence then I think that would be the best way to ST x

[albers30]

She generally takes one nap thats an hour and a half and the other is ususally 30-45 minutes.  It varies which nap is longer and shorter and theres been somedays where she's refused her morning nap and slept from like noon to 2 and refused an afternoon cat nap lately but thats only been a few times a week for the past several weeks. I'm not sure what you mean by gradual withdrawl but I have done the start with a pat, move to just a hand on her back, step away and gradually work my way farher away towards the door but even it is seems like she's sound asleep when I get to the door the minute I crack the door open she starts screaming.  How do you do gradual withdrawl?

[Buntybear]

Hi - that basically is GW! Have you tried using your voice to soothe her? Then when she starts to cry you would shh or use your sleepy phrase to reassure her you are there.

Edit -I would stick to one method of sleep training and be consistent with it. Once she can settle herself better you may find the NWs cease a bit.

[albers30]

How should I handle the 2am wake ups where she just wants to play which happen frequently? Also, suggestions for weaning from co-sleeping when we get to that point. It's really ugly right now if I try and make her stay in her crib when she wants to come to our bed.

[Buntybear]

Happy NWs sound UT  I will have to ask someone else to help as I am not good with EASY routines these days!

Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

Here is a link for GW.

As for co-sleeping you may have to make a bed on the floor in her room and do your GW that way? If you can get to the bottom of what is waking her at 5am that would help!

[michaeljacknnugg]

Does she have white noise? That might help muffle your movements and help you get away!

[albers30]

She does have a white noise machine, she's needed it since she was born to help drown out the sounds of her sisters so she could sleep. Our biggest limiting factor on sleep training right now is that almost every time it's time for her to sleep no matter how perfectly tired she is she fights going to bed because she just wants to play so it's just ugly from the start.

[albers30]

Here's an update leading to my current struggle.  So she has actually taken pretty good to settling herself to sleep as long as we're sitting in the room with her somewhere and this has led to good sleep at night, might wake very briefly once or twice but quickly back to sleep which is a huge improvement in just a week.  However, the struggle is that sometimes she easily goes to her crib, plays quietly a little then settles to sleep and other times she just wants to play play play and won't settle down to go to sleep unless I force the issue.  Once I kind of force the issue and get thru a little tantrum then she'll settle on to sleep fine and sleep well.  She seems equally as tired/or not tired each time so I'm not sure what the difference is or how we can get to a point where she consistently goes to her crib, plays a bit then off to sleep.  She has started full on walking all over the place so is a very busy girl these days so I don't know if its that or if its the fact she's sleeping some much better at night that daytime sleep is harder.  Each nap time she goes down during the day seems to get a little harder too so first nap not bad, second nap may or may not be bad, bedtime is almost always a struggle to settle her down.  Thoughts? 

[ireneasheard]

Just a thought - is separation anxiety a contributing factor here?

[albers30]

Yes I think it is but thats getting better in all other aspects.  The only frustrating thing now is helping her wind down to a point where she'll lay in her bed and allow herself to fall to sleep.  When you put her in her crib all she wants to do is play and if you try and lay her down she gets mad.  She will either play forever and never go to sleep or have a meltdown tantrum if you won't let her play.  I've found that thru repeatedly laying her down over and over telling her to sleep eventually she'll stay laying and let herself go to sleep but I can't take 20 minutes or so of doing this every time she needs to sleep.  The other alternative is I do more bouncing and patting to make her a little more drowsy then she'll do better at laying to go to sleep but this is what we're trying to get away from.  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[ireneasheard]

It sounds like your daughter has some developmental stuff going on and I feel that some good suggestions have been made from Buntybear. It's difficult finding the time when you have more than 1 child to sleep train, especially when the child is older. I feel consistency in whatever approach you take is helpful too. It may also be worth considering if you want to devote a few days to getting things under control if you're able to send the other kids off to relatives so you can have the time might be another option. Also so they aren't woken if that is a concern and also you'd then have time during the day to work on it?

[albers30]

So here's another update and a few more questions.  So she's actually doing really well with a few kinks.  She still can't fall asleep without someone in the room with her but once she's asleep she's only waking once a night generally and quickly settling back down with a short visit from me but I generally have to stay in the room until she's asleep.  How can I help her get to the point she can get to sleep without someone in the room with her?  I've tried walk in walk out once but it just escalated so quickly to inconsolable crying and a terrible night then I haven't done it again.  Any suggestions to help with the one remaining night waking too?  Secondly, she's a go go go baby who has to be right in the middle of it all so it can be tough to wind her down for sleep even when you know she's got to be tired (she'll run with a smile on her face playing with her sisters as long as you'll let her a majority of the time)  This can lead to having to do several rounds of pick up put down in crib because she stands up wanting to climb out and rejoin the fun until she'll finally settle down enough to soothe herself to sleep.  Sometimes it escalates to an all out tantrum.  I've tried earlier sleep times, later sleep times, different wind down routines and nothing seems to make a difference.  Ideas?