5 month old - 30 minute naps

[Han12345]

Hi,

My LG is 5.5 months old and I still can't get her to have good naps. I'm wondering where I'm going wrong? She has become a lot more active and I'm finding she constantly looks tired so obviously what I'm doing isn't working.

I have tried looking at other posts on this but one I read mentioned OT and the next one mentioned UT. Not sure how I would be able to tell the difference.

Here is what her day often looks like;

Wakes: 6am (leave her in her cot till around 6.30/45 to play)
E:7
A: (she's always tired here but I try keep her going a bit so she been up around 2 hours.
S: 8/8.30

usually only does half an hour. If I hold her in my arms she will do longer but on her own in her cot she's awake bang on 30 mins and after 20 mins of trying to get her back off I usually give up.

E:10
A (conscious she has been awake a while so might try starting to get her sleep 30/40mins after bottle)
S:11-12 (woke after 30mins but picked up and got back to sleep in my arms, tried shush pat but she's messes around and won't settle)

E:1
A:
S: 2.45 - 3.15

E: 4
A:
S: 4.20 - 4.50 (usually don't want her to sleep after her 4pm feed but keep finding she is awake from 3 so by bed time she is beside herself tired. Therefore will let her have half an hour).

BBB: 6
Asleep: 6.45pm

Wake in the night for a bottle around 1/2am

She is only small for her age and weighs 14lbs. She's currently not eating a lot of oz. Usuallh around 4oz (sometimes 2/3). Bed time she will have 6/7oz and same in the night.

I am thinking of pushing her to feeding every 4 hours now but conscious of her sleeping not getting better?

She has gone through phases of sleeping through and also napping for 1.5/2 hours in an afternoon but I can't see any specific pattern to them?

Please let me know what you think.

Thank you x

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

Thanks for such a detailed post...just a couple of questions to help me work out what might be going on....

How is she on waking from short naps? Happy & playing or crying? Happy on waking is usually a sign of an UT nap, crying usually OT.

Your last nap is very soon after waking from the 2nd nap.  Is she looking tired and ready to sleep at this time? Does she fall asleep easily at BT?

Does she fall asleep independently or do you need to settle her to sleep?

Re Feeds, is she showing signs of being ready to go longer between feeds? E.g. Less interest in feeds or not taking as much as she used to at feeds?

[Han12345]

Thank you for your reply Scottish mummy.

From nearly all her naps she wakes happy but often still looks tired. She rarely wakes crying. Am I possibly trying to get her to sleep too much?

She always falls asleep easily at BT no matter how she has slept in the day. But I often struggle to get her to nap, apart from maybe her morning one. Most naps can take me 15/20 mins of rocking in my arms. If we are out and about in the pram she will only sleep if I keep moving and it's quiet. If i go to the shops or there is anything slightly interesting she won't sleep at all.

At the moment I find she constantly looks tired. She has big bags under her eyes but she has had a few days with grandparents and she hasn't napped much so not sure if this could be why.

Unfortunately she won't fall asleep independently. She has a dummy so I feel this prevents her. I sometimes leave her in the cot and after a while go put the dummy back and shush pat which might mean she falls asleep but I find it much quicker to settle her in my arms for 5 minutes then put her down. At BT I will leave her and she will settle much quicker in her cot after I shush pat and put the dummy in.

In regards to feeds I started the 4 hourly on Monday and she seems better on it. Previously she was starting to do a few 2oz bottles and the odd 4 but rarely much more. Since doing the 4 hourly she is much better. Today doing 1x 6oz, 1x 5oz and 1x 4oz and the last 2 nights she has taken 9oz at bed time.

She's not a very big eater and only really takes 27oz most days. She also wakes for a bottle around 1am. She has slept through previously for around a week but at this point she was taking around 30 or more oz and I can't get her to take that any more.

I'm feeling very confused about what I should be doing if I'm honest. I feel I fight with her a lot to get her to sleep and it's very frustrating. I hate that at the moment she constantly looks exhausted.

Any help would be really great. I am hoping to start weaning next week so not sure if this might change things again?

Thank you.

[Scottishmummy]

It's great that the feeds are going better now she's taking them 4hrly.  Starting solids shouldn't affect her naps, unless sh has something that disagrees with her...there's some good threads on first foods on the Feeding Solid food board.

I think there might be a couple of things going on....

Looking at your routine, your A times (time from waking to sleep..eyes open to closed) look a little short for her age.  By late 5mo/early 6mo average would be 2.5-3hrs and it looks like she's usually doing around 2hrs between naps at the moment? You might be getting short naps because she's under tired but then she looks tired as she's only taking short naps.  I'd try gradually keeping her awake longer, adding 10-15 mins to her A time every 2-3 days and see if that helps get a longer nap.  Some people just work on extending A time before the first nap to start with.

I also think working on her falling asleep independently would help too. To take longer naps she needs to be able to resettle herself between sleep cycles...and to do that she needs to know how to fall asleep herself.  I'd keep the dummy but persevere with shhh pat. You might find that she settles more readily with longer A times.

I hope that helps, come back if you want to ask anything else or to let me know how it's going.
Xxx

[Han12345]

Thank you again for your help. Makes total sense to extend her activity time and that's what I've been trying to concentrate on, as well as self settling. It has brought up a few questions though and a few problems which hopefully you can help me with?

 If she doesn't have a very long sleep, maybe 30 mins still. Should I still try keep her A time 2.5/3hrs?

This is how the last few days have worked from or us:

5am wake (this is one of the problems)
E: 7am
S: 8 - 8.45
E:10.30
S: 11 - 12.30 (has been waking after 30mins but will settle back quickly with reinserting dummy.)
E: 2
S: 3.20 - 4
E: 5.30 (I class this a bed time bottle)
Bath 6.30
E: 6.45 (rest of bedtime bottle)
S:7pm
Waking up: 11.30pm
E: 12.30am

So as you can see I ended up doing with feeding every 3.5hours. 4hrs was just too long. She's still been feeding really well with this.

I'm pleased she is doing one long sleep but is this at the correct time do you think? Does she possibly need longer in the afternoon? The last few days we have been out in the afternoon so she won't stay asleep in her pram.

12am bottle and 5am wakings!!! I've been wondering if this could be down to a couple of things.

1. Her bed time bottle used to be 6 feed, bath 6.30, bottle again and bed (she would do about 7oz). Now it's 5.30 feed (will do 5/6 oz), 6.30 feed (will do 4/5oz). Totalling what I class has her bedtime bottle to be 10oz. But is she maybe not getting enough oz close enough to bed time. Hence early NW and 5am start?

2. Is it possible she is having too many oz before bed? As she's only on the 25 percentile I just feed her till she stops so have never worried before about her eating too much till someone else mentioned it to me.

I think it's more point 1 but is this is the case how do I make it work? She's usually pretty tired by bed time but I don't want her going to bed any earlier.

She was restless all last night and I think I was up nearly every hour just putting the dummy in. Previosuly to she would just sleep solidly apart from her night bottle.

Hope this all makes sense. I'm very tired now. Thankfully half term and my husband is a teacher so I'm waiting for him to take over and I will sleep.

Thanks again for all your help xxxx

[Scottishmummy]

Hi again!

It looks like you're getting one good nap a day now? That's great progress.

30min naps- it depends on how your baby copes with short naps. Some mums find that baby needs a slightly shorter A time after a short nap, both of mine did/do close to full A time even after a short nap. You often have to watch to for tired signs to see how they're doing.

Early waking: Is she not going back to sleep at all after 5am? That's exhausting. What time do you get her out of bed? Around this age some babies start the transition from 3-2 naps & I think that might be what your DD is getting ready for..but because of the early start she's got a long day and needs 3 naps to get through it...but then wakes early again because of having 3 naps!

I would try to get her back to sleep any way you can at 5am and see if you can get a later start to the day.  Keep the same A times but you'd wake her early from the 3rd nap so you can still get a 7pm BT.

If you can't get her back to sleep after 5am, I'd try gradually starting to shift your first nap later- 10 mins every 2-3 days.  Keep same A times for 2nd and 3rd nap but cut 3rd nap shorter to keep BT the same.

Feeding: I've not bottle fed mine so will need to ask someone else to have a look. That said, on 3.5 hr EASY I did a split feed in the evening and I think that little time difference still counts as BT feed.  As above, think your 5am start is nap related but don't know what are average amounts for bottle feeding. Hopefully someone will be along to help out with that question.

Xxx

[creations]

Hi there
I bottle fed.  I always gave the day feeds when due and then the BT feed whenever BT was, often this would mean there was less than the full amount of time between E but I didn't worry about that.  It doesn't seem to me that the feeding is going to be what's causing the NW. It is totally normal for a bottle fed baby to still be getting a night feed at this age, many people who follow EASY do a dream feed but if you don't dream feed then it's an awake feed at whatever time LO is ready for it in the night, which seems to be what you are doing.
If you wanted to try something a bit different, for your peace of mind perhaps, you could give that 5.30 E a bit earlier maybe at 4.30 which is only 2.5hr from her last E but then gives her a longer time between the 4.30 E and the BT E.  She may take less at the 4.30 and more at the BT... although it is not really that long off before you can start to wean the night feed (maybe around 7-8 months) so she will then take all her calories in the day.

Mine was also on 25th centile (between 9 and 25th throughout his first year, now more like 25th for weight and between 25th and 50th for height), it does not indicate a need to try to make her eat more, it just means she is a smaller person.  The centile line they follow is neither good not bad if it is higher or lower, the only thing that matters if following the line (moving one line either way is also fine).

WRT starting solids - I have come across LOs whose sleep goes a bit off track, gas or wind, pooing at the wrong time or just being over stimulated by all the new flavours and textures but I wouldn't worry about it.  If your LO does experience any of those it will settle down quite quickly unless as Scottishmummy said there is some sort of reaction.

hope this helps some

[Vsta]

Hi, Hb5000 any progress? I'm very keen to know.
My son is 4 months but I have similar problem with him. Thank you.