Long stretches gone?

[BabyA0105]

Hello - my DS used to consistently give me 5-6 hour long stretches before needing to eat ever since he was 12 weeks old.  For a week or so, he was down to one night feeding.   When he was almost 4 months, he started to go back to two (sometimes three night wakings) so I thought it was a GS and always fed him.  He is 4.5 months now and the past week we have consistently been having two night wakings around 10-11pm and then again around 4-5am.  I always nurse him and he goes back to sleep.  My question is - what happened to the long stretch after he goes to bed? Is it because their sleep cycle has changed or has LO just naturally spaced out his night feedings? He is usually in bed between 6:30-7pm and I give him a top off since my supply is low in the evenings..  He is not a great eater when he feeds at night since he falls asleep but I just deal with it and let him comfort suck for 30 min to an hour sometimes.  Anything I can do to get his long stretches back or improve night wakings/feeding?  Thanks in advance!

[ginger428]

Hi there...
I think you did the right thing initially and feed him as I'll bet it was a growth spurt. You're right about the sleep cycles changing, too, but it seems that DS is able to get through some sleep cycles on his own. If this lasts more than two weeks, taking into account the times he wakes, suckling for 30-60min, and falling asleep while nursing (prop), he may be habitually waking at that time and will most likely need some form of independent sleep support.  You may want to start by putting him down as soon as he has stopped eating, or at 25 mins tops. What is your bedtime routine? Does he always fall asleep day/night on the breast?

[BabyA0105]

Thanks for your reply! No prop going to sleep -- his routine is bath, feed, book, diaper, and then lullaby.  He usually passes out after about 5 min. in his crib. 

Is it possible for a sleep prop to develop ONLY for connecting sleep cycles? He struggles with 45 min naps so sometimes we hold him in order to extend his naps.  At night, I usually just nurse him back to sleep.

Tonight he got up at midnight which is an improvement over 10am but there's just no consistently at all with him!

[ginger428]

It takes some lo's some practice e to connect sleep cycles. Can you post your routine? Sometimes the 45 min nap is an indication of routine needing changed and one is done typically around 4 months as their activity time increases (depending on child of course).

Have you tried other ways to soothe him back to sleep? If he's not eating heartily at night, as you mentioned, it could have become a prop for the habitual wakings. One thingyou could trynow is not to feed him until a designated time if you think he's hungry, and for all other NWs soothe another way. Ideally putting him back in his crib awake. Again, I would also pull him off right before he falls asleep or as soon as he does with a gentle nudge, then place in the crib.

What do you think?

[BabyA0105]

Thank you so much for your help!  Below is his typical routine...

6:30am - Wake and feed
8:30am - nap 1 (45 min)
10am - feed
11am - nap 2 (45 min)
1pm - feed
2pm - nap 3 (45 min)
4pm feed
6pm top off and asleep by 6:30pm

BT is on the early side because he refuses to take a 4th nap and is so exhausted and cranky by 5pm.  He wakes up from his 45 min naps crying because he's still tired but he has so much trouble connecting sleep cycles.  I've tried to play around with wake times but it doesn't seem to make a difference. If I hold him after he wakes up from a 45 min nap, I can get him to extend it but I'm rarely successful.   About 2-3 times a week he does connect sleep cycles and takes a glorious 1.5-2 hour nap but I'm not doing anything different...it just feels like it depends on the day.  Tonight he woke up after being asleep for only 2.5 hours .  Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? I will work to not let him nurse for extended periods of time at night.

[ginger428]

I saw you also posted in EASY...the suggestion there was to increase A to 2.15. It's worth a try to see if DS will then be tired enough to connect sleep cycles. What kind of activities does DS get during the day? Is DS showing any new skills?

How long is he awake at nights and are the NWs still at inconsistent times? And just to clarify, how long has the NWs been going on? Again, if it's been 2 weeks or more, then we should consider that DS might be UT (A's are too short), naps are short which leads to OT by bedtime. It's not a fun cycle and not a fun phase! Hang in there.

I don't see it as you're doing anything wrong! I've felt that way many times but realizing that it's all such a huge guessing game. Let me know how the reducing night feeding time goes.

[BabyA0105]

Hello and thank you again for your help. NWs unfortunately have not improved and we resort to feeding every time because nothing will settle LO down.  These early night wakings have been going on for 2.5 weeks now with the exception of 3 nights where he did a 5 hour long stretch.  They started happening around the same time he learned to roll over and me return back to work (switching to bottles during the day while daddy cares for him).  The past 3 days he has woken up after 3 hours on the dot - my husband will try to soothe him back to sleep for an hour before letting him nurse. 

We've tried to push for a 2.15 A time but he starts to rub his eyes after 1.75 so even making it 2 hours is tough for him.  Today we actually got a 4th nap in so he took four 45 min naps but that doesn't seem to impact his NWings.  My husband and I are going to try increasing bottle size/number of daytime nursing sessions to see if things improve.  We will also continue to try to stretch his A times so that he takes longer naps.  I will provide an update in a couple of days...Really hope this phase will pass soon!

[ginger428]

Oh dear, you must be exhausted! I didn't realize you were back at work. I'm so glad DH has been supportive as can be.

I forgot to mention that our shortest A was always the first morning one. Is that what you're noticing, too? And with shorter naps, it makes semse he may be tired earlier than expected. I'm so glad he took that 4th nap!

Is DS taking a lot at the night feedings? I think you and DH have a great plan to increase day feeding amount.

Sorry I couldn't be more help. The 4th mo was by far one of the toughest phases for me. Many hugs!

[BabyA0105]

Back with an update! The larger bottles (he takes 7 oz of BM in one feeding, omg!!!) seems to help us get somewhat of a long stretch back (5 one night, 4 another), but we're still at 2 night wakings for food - once around midnight and another around 4:30am.  I nurse him at night instead of giving him a bottle since my supply isn't as low at night.  Naps are still 45-50 min long though so LO is pretty cranky by the afternoon *sigh*.  I think having naps and feedings at random times depending on how long he naps is getting to us. 

Should I try to put LO on a 4 hour schedule using PUPD like the book mentions? I don't want to go through it if LO isn't ready or if it doesn't work. Are there success stories out there?  Or should I stick with watching A times and hope a schedule appears soon?
 

[FPT23]

Hello

If I can just throw my opinion out there for you too- see if it helps any

I have a 15 week old (shy of 4 mths) and has recently began to wake at those same hours too. The 4 mth sleep regression is their sleep maturing! They are now cycling between light and deep sleep. It's developmental and just be aware that at this age they make their sleep associations during this phase. So keep that in mind for the long run when working on sleep training

There is also a growth spurt at 4 mths! So I would continue to feed! I BF too and he eats a hefty amount recently since the NWs began a few days ago. I always assume hunger first when BF and try. Lately he also won't resettle after feeds or stay asleep as before, so I try other soothing methods.

Sleep at this stage will bring some short naps which get harder to settle and harder to PD too- again, having to do with their sleep cycles. With naps I would consider keeping appropriate A times in mind and sticking to solid wind downs for both BT and naps. Consistency is key through this crazy change

Many can do 4 hour EASY and as the book says around 4 mths but it could possible be a bit hard to accomplish with the shorter naps too. Naps begin to regulate a bit better and more consistently at around 6+ mths depending the baby, but usually around there. I don't even expect long naps- it helps haha!

Personally, I would stick with appropriate A times-- getting him as rested as possible through this change and slowly as time passes you will be ready to work on some ST to help with all that happened during this regression ....I'm there w/ you!

Hugs!

[BabyA0105]

Thank you FPT23 for your opinion and words of encouragement  .  I personally did not want to go through STing using PUPD, esp since we went through that with shush pat and finally got to a place where he falls asleep on his own.   You are totally right on expectations - if I don't expect long naps then I won't get disappointed!! .

Last night he downed an 8 oz bottle before going to bed and slept 7.5 hours which he has not done in almost a month!  Hopefully we are getting over his massive growth spurt and mama can finally get some rest!

*hug back*

[FPT23]

Oh good lets hope so!

Great to hear

[ginger428]

That's great!  Hope it continues!