7 Months Routine Advice

[Johnnyha65]

Hello,

So I think I was in denial so long with etc 3:2 thinking he was OT and it was the 3rd nap causing the short naps and EW's, got there in the end though albeit a few weeks ago, but things are no longer working. We were doing the following

WU: 6:30/7
A 3hr
S 1hr30
A 3hr15
S 1hr 30 (I woke to preserve BT)
BT 6:30/7

however it seems we're back to short naps, 38 minutes to be exact as this seems to be his sleep cycle. I have an older DS so thinking he may now be able to manage the short then long nap combination which will allow us to get out and about in the mornings when he's not at pre-school

Yesterday went like this

WU 7:05
S 10 - 11:05
S 2:00 - 2:38
BT 6:30 (couldn't get a cat nap)!!
3 NW's

Today
WU 6:55
S 10 - 10:38
S 1 - ??

I'm not sure where to pitch the first nap so he is not too grumpy as he was today, so clearly 3 hrs is too long, or do I just leave him a few days to adjust. Then how long to 2nd nap? Today I just went for this time which is manageable if he only does 1hr30, he does like a good 4hr A to bed it would seem to make our nights most settled.

TIA x

[Scottishmummy]

Oh my, I could have written your post myself!  My DD is almost exactly same age and was on almost exactly same routine until we started to get short naps too! We're also getting EWs 

I think you're getting a similar UT/OT pattern to me, where days with long naps leave them UT and that gives short naps the next day, but then they're OT the next day hence the grumpiness!

How did the rest of today go?

I might be a bit close you give objective advice..but I'm trying to keep the first nap at the same time every day, and always have DD awake by the same time in the afternoon to get a 7pm BT. I'm aiming for long am/short pm, just because DD tends to be more consistent with taking a long am nap & is grumpy for rest of day if I wake her from it!  So in an ideal world our day would look like this:
Wu:6.30ish
Nap 1: 9.30-11
Nap 2: 2.15-3pm
BT: 7pm
Still not got it to work like that yet!

If you want short am/long pm, I would try keeping the first nap at 10am for a few days but waking after same amount of time each day to see how that goes.
Was he ready for sleep by 1pm? How long did you get? I would have guessed that might not be enough A time for a long nap, but maybe he needed to catch up?

[Johnnyha65]

So he woke at 2:40 so a 1hr40 nap, did BT at 6:45, straight to sleep and woke just before 6:30. My only issue is the grumpiness between 1st and 2nd nap, makes me think he needs a longer nap and also we went out in the car about 12:15 and he would have gone to sleep then, so maybe now having a rethink I may push out the A times and see how we go. I don't think he would manage 4hrs A after a 45 minute nap we would get NW's and or EW, so maybe that is causing your EW?

[Scottishmummy]

Hmmm, tricky one. I'm not sure about pushing A times further as the grumpiness sounds tired.

If you get a 6.30 wu maybe try a 9.30 nap and see if he's more refreshed with just a 3hr first A time. I just stick with a set first nap time because of EW.

That 2nd nap sounds good with a decent BT and wake up.

If you think he needs a longer first nap, could you let him sleep at first A time but cut second nap short? 

[Johnnyha65]

 Its one of those days  I of for nap at 9:20, went to sleep 9:40 and woke after one sleep cycle so 10:20 then pd for nap 12:45 asleep by 1 and woke at 1:35 screaming so OT it's taken nearly 45 minutes and white noise but he's gone back down, lots of tears though. I had to persevere as the CN just gives us early starts.  He's been grumpy and whiney all day, doesn't know what he wants so hoping this is maybe developmental but I don't think we're in a leap, he's 32 weeks today

[Bella89]

Hi there, just wanted to jump in and give you an extra opinion:)

I wonder if the switch to 2 naps was too sudden for him. Sometimes even if you see it's 3-2 time, it can take up to 3 weeks to make it adjustable for LOs. What I mean is, even if you know 3 naps don't work anymore, I would not cut the 3rd nap in 1 day. Does that make sense? If you do it quickly, they still tend to take their time to adjust. The best way to handle it is to be persistent with timings I think, for a few days.

I agree, that the older they get, they seam to react better to constant nap timings i.e. my 15mo DS rarely gives me any tiredness signs, but I just start routine at 1 and he falls asleep whenever. It takes 5 or 30 min. He still chooses his time, but has quite time at a certain hour. Does that make sense?

About the routine... From what you've written you've just transitioned to 2 naps, so I wouldn't think of short/long naps for at least next 3 months. Right now, he just had to cut 1 nap, so I would let him have his 2 full naps (1.5-2h).
I think spreading these A times equally could help. If he can do 4h afternoon, he can do the same after good night sleep, but you have to get there gradually:)
I would suggest something like this next 3 days:
7:00 WU
10:00 nap 1, (start the routine at 10, he will probably WU around 11:00)
2:00 nap2 (if he wakes at 11 do 2pm, if 11:30 2:30)- try not to go over 4pm
7 BT I really don't think he will be UT for that BT.

What do you think?
It will probably fail the first day, but day 2 or 3 should give you some peace

[Johnnyha65]

Hi Bella thanks for your input!! I'm here to take in lots of perspectives and ideas so all welcome. In reality I think he was past the 3:2 some time ago and I didn't realise, we had EWings for a loooong time and I kept thinking OT as DS1 was so susceptible to it, giving the catnap which he took and it was a vicious circle, 3hrs A was working for a few weeks, but slowly the naps have been reducing, so 1hr30 to 1hr20 and then just over an hr, and that was with pushing the second A out for an additional 15 minutes. Below was yesterday, which I know is not enough sleep for him..

WU 6:30
S 9:40 - 10:40  PD 9:30
S 1 - 1:35 PD 12:45 woke screaming so I persevered with getting him back to sleep
S 2:40 - 3:20
BT/S 7
NW 3:20 but settled back, I think this is habitual and does not always settled without a feed
E: 4:25

WU 6:10
S 10 - asleep now tried to put him down from 9:20 and he kept protesting so we came out and I tried again at 9:40.

He does just seem like he does not want to sleep, no tired signs at all but I was just going with the 3 hrs because it was working.  He's definitely at the frustrated stage of wanting to do things but can't so lunging at things when you hold him, but if you put him down he's not mobile yet or great at sitting unaided so gets annoyed.

Thanks for your helps ladies  x

[Johnnyha65]

and awake at 10:40 woke chatting and cooing, i tried feeding back to sleep incase it was hunger not a chance. I'm not actually getting him up until near 7, infant today was 7am so should I maybe be counting A time from then? I'm thinking maybe be needs a little 15 minute or so nudge in the am if thats the case just to get him to go over, if we could get an hr that would be ideal.

[Scottishmummy]

Yes that refusal around the first nap then a short one does look UT.

Lots of people count time awake but not getting up yet as half A time, so yes maybe a later nap would work....worth a try!

[Johnnyha65]

So second nap was just shy of 2hrs, think I'm going to stick with 10am first nap and leave him to sleep, if he wakes after 40mins then just go with 1pm see how we go for a few days

[Scottishmummy]

Sounds like a plan!  Pretty much what I'm doing too except with slight different timings.

Hope it works for us both!

[Bella89]

I agree, if after a short nap you have a happy and chatty baby that usually means they are rested and ready to play. Hence UT I would add 20 to A time:)

I think you're on the right track here. And let me to say, you're doing a great job! Knowing when to add a cat nap, when UT/OT. Congrats!

If I may add, even at 7 months if they are done with NF it doesn't mean that they can't wake up out of hunger from time to time. Do you see the connection between how much he eats and NW? I'm just blind guessing here

[Johnnyha65]

So plans went out the window yesterday as he had waterbabies but we had a good day and night it was:

WU 6:10
S 9:05 - 9:45 in the car enroute to swimming
S 12:30 - 2:45
S 6:55
E 3:20

WU 6:05

The NF is affecting his morning milk which I'm guessing means we need to start reducing it, currently it's 6oz.

[Bella89]

Well, the day was not as planned, but you worked around your plans, and it wasn't bad at all:)

About NF... so if he can go without NF most times, I would just make sure he has plenty all day long and started reducing NF.
We dropped NF at 9mo, and I did that by reducing 1 oz of milk or 1 dose of formula every 2 days etc.
NF1 7 oz of formula (7 doses, 7 water)
NF2 same
NF3 7 oz formula (6 doses, 7 water)
NF4 same
NF5 (6 doses formula, 6 water)
We got to 4 oz of formula and he stopped waking up for feeds.

If you want to do that, just make sure he has enough during the day. Add what you're dropping to the morning feed. How many oz a day is he having?