Any suggestions for hyper behavior and bedtime struggles ?

[Chloevalentine]

I feel like I'm posting like crazy these days. My 3 year old is showing some odd behavior lately. He's so wild during the day can't sit still or focus. He's referring to himself as "he" all day. He wants pancakes or he wants mommy. It's just bizarre behavior and I can't quite seem to figure it out. Yesterday I thought maybe it was the chocolate ice cream he had. Sonetimes I blame it on red dye #40. But none of those things are relevant lately. He won't go to sleep at night without crying when you try to leave the room. It's already after 830 and he's still awake talking nonsense in his room. This is def an odd post just thought I'd see if anyone had some ideas? Thanks

[deb]

Can you give us more details? You said that the food coloring isn't relevant - does that mean he isn't having red coloring right now? What about other colors? Other foods? what about exercise during the day, or screen time? Is he still napping during the day? Lots of different factors can impact bedtime.

Also, has he had antibiotics lately?

[Skadiver13]

Honestly my son would do the same thing. We just kept to our routines and eventually passed. We also had to start capping his naps around that time as well

[Chloevalentine]

No I mean he had no food dyes. We avoid them at all costs because he has an awful reaction. He has not napped in 9 month. He does a 12 hour night but lately he's been sleeping later in the morning unless I wake him.  Screen time ..well yesterday he barely had any mostly outdoor play and today due to weather and me not feeling well he had more than usual. But his behavior was the same both days.

[becj86]

Have you considered the possibility he's not sure how to handle the impending arrival of a sibling / starting summer camp? Maybe he's looking for some reassurance...

He's referring to himself as "he" all day.

This can just be a normal way of experimenting with language - has he been hearing you speaking about him as 'he' lately?

[cath~]

has he just turned 3?  it could be associated with the birthday developmental leap.  DD1 went a bit crazy around that time too but settled down again soon after.

[deb]

has he just turned 3?  it could be associated with the birthday developmental leap.  DD1 went a bit crazy around that time too but settled down again soon after.

All other things aside, this is probably the most likely culprit. If his sleep pattern is changing - you having to wake him - that can be part of that.

Come to think of it, it was after one of the birthday leaps that we had to institute a rule of no roughhousing after 6PM or after supper (we usually finished supper 6-ish, although not always). Otherwise mine would be too jazzed come bedtime. We instead started making that time window more low-key and quiet - although I found I had to ramp up the exercise BEFORE supper, especially mid-afternoon, to compensate.

[Chloevalentine]

Thanks everyone! He will be turning 3 end of June. He might be unsure about the baby and summer camp but what can I do to help? I honestly wasn't sure if he was too wound up at night after dinner or if he needed to burn off more steam.

[deb]

There may not be anything you can do to "help" per se more than allowing him time and space to process all the big changes going on in his life.  Josie was 3-1/2 when her sister was born, and we went thru some "stuff" around 3YO as well.

[Chloevalentine]

The past few days we've been waking him earlier around 730 to try and get him used to waking for summer camp which starts next week. But the earlier I wake him the later he's up at night. Ifs taking him forever to fall asleep. Today we woke him by 740 tonight we went up for bedtime routine around 7 into bed around 735 and he's still up at 830?! Which will mean that he will be tired tomorrow morning when I go to wake him at 730 because he's used to a 12 hour night. Help this is a vicious cycle.

[Lindsay27]

Does he ever nap?  I know you said he dropped it but he honestly sounds a little OT to me...that hyper OT behaviour ya know?  My DS hasn't napped in a long while but the odd time mid-afternoon he'll crash on the couch watching a movie and I'll just let him sleep, if he's crashing I figure he needs a little catch up.  Does he have a quiet time in the day? Even after we dropped the nap I insisted on a 1hr quiet time to help him re-charge...a movie, reading stories, or anything low key really.

Like Deb said, we also try to keep things after dinner relatively quiet.  Like she said, no horsing around or anything of that nature or else he's legitimately bouncing off the walls come bedtime.  Usually my DH will play Lego with him or something of that nature...to keep him busy but not be burning tons of energy which in my mind can lead to that crazy OT shenanigans.

[deb]

The past few days we've been waking him earlier around 730 to try and get him used to waking for summer camp which starts next week. But the earlier I wake him the later he's up at night. Ifs taking him forever to fall asleep. Today we woke him by 740 tonight we went up for bedtime routine around 7 into bed around 735 and he's still up at 830?! Which will mean that he will be tired tomorrow morning when I go to wake him at 730 because he's used to a 12 hour night. Help this is a vicious cycle.

Can you work out when the "second wind" starts? If you can get him calm BEFORE that it might help. When mine were younger a second wind would start any time between 7-8PM, soi t was crucial to get them into a bedtime routine before then. Come to think of it, that might be when we started adding a massage to the bedtime routine - which we still do at 11 and even 14-1/2YO!

Have you seen this? http://www.amazon.com/OClock-Bedtime-Early-healthy-playful/dp/0060988894  No, our kids don't go to bed at 7PM, BUT we DO make sure things are low-key by then, at least during school year as much as we realistically can.

[becj86]

With all that's going on, he may need an hour to wind down - I'd be aiming to have him in bed ready for stories, chats, etc. at 6:30/6:45

[Chloevalentine]

Thanks everyone. Yesterday he didn't have that crazy jumping off the walls behavior but it took him forever to fall asleep.  As I mentioned. We've been asking him in the morning which is really the only thing different I can think of.  We always do low key things after dinner although sometimes dinner is early around 5 and bedtime isn't until 8. But normally hell go to the garden with is dad when he gets home which is good fresh air time and he gets to let go any of that remainding energy. Then usually once back inside we wind down with his fav tv show lights low music off etc. we've been doing this forger and then typically upstairs for bath pjs books and a song with his dad into bed between 730-8. There will be a week that goes by where he literally passed out during a song and then s week where he cruise every night when you leave the room and then like this week where he's wild and just can't calm down enough to fall asleep. The best bedtime was when we were letting him sleep until 8/830 and doing bedtime a bit later (12 hrs) but as I mentioned with camp starting next week we need to be out of the house by 845. I figured if I could get him up earlier I could get him into bed asleep earlier but it's backfiring and I wonder if I'm causing the ot in the end? Lol

[Lindsay27]

I honestly don't know if I'd wake him in the morning.  I know you are trying to prep him for camp next week but I think what you will find is that even though he needs to be up earlier for camp, the day will be exhausting (but fun!) for him and he'll go to sleep earlier while he's in camp, ya know?

[Chloevalentine]

Good idea! I never thought of that! Thanks. I did let him sleep I peeked in about 805 and his head popped up he was waking up

[becj86]

I wonder if you can change your plan for getting ready to get out the door for camp - if you're not leaving til 8:45, you may find its easier for you to pack lunch, etc. into his bag while he's asleep and if you just dress him and feed him when he gets up, that can be faster when he's not tired Even lay out his clothes the night before so the choices are made.

[Chloevalentine]

So instead of more l awake time before school maybe key him sleep later and just get him ready as soon as he gets up. It's worth a try! I'm going to bedtime tonight at 8 and see if he goes to sleep easier and see what time he wakes tomorrow. Is it odd at this age though for him to not be able to handle a 13 hour day and take forever to fall asleep (like last night)? Maybe the 12 hour day just works better for some reason

[becj86]

Is it odd at this age though for him to not be able to handle a 13 hour day and take forever to fall asleep (like last night)?

Not especially, some kids can only handle 12hr and by 13hr, they're OT and wired and can't get to sleep.

[Chloevalentine]

I think you are right. Tonight he went Into bed around 8 his dad reads a book and sings a sing or two. Lately he begs for another song even cries and gets out of bed to call for daddy or me. We make sure to leave his light on low and his door open like he likes and then We just yell up the stairs that it's time for bed he must get into his bed and he usually does I hear him talking with his 2 loveys and passes out. So by 815 he was asleep tonight. It's just crazy what a difference it makes it seems to not wake him and do an 8am-8pm day instead of waking him at 730 am and trying to get him asleep by 730 pm. It just makes no sense.

[becj86]

How long has his BT been 8pm?

[Chloevalentine]

It used to be 730 but being that he started sleeping in until 8-830 it started taking him longer to fall asleep at night (or I was putting him to bed later just going with the 12 hours and not wanting to put him down to early) but sometimes I think since its been lighter later at night that maybe that's when he started going to bed a bit later

[becj86]

Ok, so he's really just maybe shifting to fit with his body clock and the environment. I think if you've got the choice of an easy BT at 8 or a horrid one at 7:30 and he sleeps the same amount either way, I know what I'd choose if it was at all feasible.

[Chloevalentine]

I think you are right. He's just the kind that wants some time when he gets up to hang around watch his shows etc. I don't know that I can just rush him out the door. Tiday we had another meltdown going to his school skills class. Hoping this separation anxiety gets better

[Chloevalentine]

Here's what's going on now.... I stopped waking him in morning becUase he was cranky and overtired by bedtime. So he's been waking himself btwn 8-830 which is fine but tonight it's 830 and he's still awake! He actually dozed off in the car today for ten mins (he never sleeps in the car) so I know he's tired but we are in a viscous cycle!!! Ugh now do I wake him tomorrow by 730 in order to get him to bed earlier tomorrow or am I going to cause another issue? I thought sleep troubles were behind me by now

[deb]

Sounds like he manged a Power Nap this afternoon. I always hated it when mine did that. *sigh* That was exactly why I had to stop DD1 napping at all around 2-1/2 - she was ether cranky in the afternoons or up half the night and cranky the entire next day! If she DID nap, we just resigned ourselves to a late night that night (and an awful day next day).

[Chloevalentine]

Oh I see. That ten min nap gave him energy! I didn't realize since he's not a napper. But what happens today? I'm going to get him up soon it's 8 am and just try to get him into bed by 8 tonight. Ugh

[deb]

Today just muddle thru as best you can and try to not let him sleep? I spent a lot of time in "Fake It Till You Make It" territory around this age. Actually, I'm still there now I have a teenager! LOL

[Chloevalentine]

Lol!! Today was a busy day caught him yawning a bit mid day but we watched his shows with a cup of milk in a quiet room to wind down like we always do starting at 630/40 ish up for bath at 7-715 then pjs and I've been leaving room and letting daddy read books and sing and then he comes down about 750 but lately he starts crying for a min or two then just starts talking in his bed and asleep by 810 ish. But lately would pass out around 730 during a song. So this is something new again the crying and taking a bit to fall asleep. I wonder if we need a routine tweak ?

[deb]

3YO is a pretty big shift for many kids. I'd ride it out for a day or two - remember, he had a no-nap day after a late night - and see if it resolves on its own.

[Chloevalentine]

Ha I sure hope you are right! I went into his room at almost 830 this morning and opened his window. He literally started throwing pillows and stuffed animals at me yelling like a teenager. But how can I let him sleep that late and expect him in bed by 8 at the latest at night. ?!! Ugh tomorrow starts camp (which is only two days Tuesday and Thursday's ) but we will see if his schedule might change on his own. Thanks again

[Chloevalentine]

After a big day yesterday and waking him easily at 730 he was fast asleep at 730 pm!! This morning he's still asleep at 745 so I think I'll need to wake him by 8 in order to get a decent bedtime again and an easy wake up tomorrow morning too. Camp is only two days a week so it's not like we will have a chance to get on a new routine. I just don't want each day to differ too much with bedtimes of 730 or 830 that's a big difference.

[cath~]

^^ if it's just 2 days/week then maybe on camp days you'll just have to (maybe) wake him in time, and then do a slightly earlier bedtime if he's tired.  I'm sure it will even out over the week though and a slightly different WU and BT on camp days shouldn't be too big an issue.

[Chloevalentine]

True but today he's fast asleep I feel bad to wake him if he's tired from yesterday but if I don't we get back into that late bedtimes and hard to wake tomorrow morning.

[cath~]

Maybe decide a latest time you'd let him sleep until (8.00 or 8.15?) and then adjust bedtimes accordingly (if needed)?

[Chloevalentine]

Good idea! Today I woke him around 810 so we will aim for 8 bedtime ( which always takes him a bit to fall asleep lately) yesterday he fell right to sleep at 730! It was great

[cath~]

I love those kinds of bedtimes! 

[Chloevalentine]

Anytime lo goes to bed after 8 it takes forever to fall asleep!! It's almost 9 pm and he's still awake rolling around. I feel like it happens everytine. Whenever he goes to bed for 730 he falls right to sleep. Can that make any sense? Tomorrow morning I need to wake him for school which is going to be rough!

[deb]

It sounds like he gets a second wind if you don't get him down soon enough. I'm the same, and so's my husband.

[Chloevalentine]

I think you are right!  Although today he woke up at 7:30 on his own which she hasn't done in a very long time !!

[Chloevalentine]

So I started waking him for school at 730 and he started waking some days on his own ( not everyday and not on school days). So we started doing earlier bt by 730 and he's been going to bed well. Do the kid schedule of 8/830 am-8/830 pm changed to 730/8 am wake up to 730/8 bedtime. But the past few days he's waking on his own starting at 730/715/7 and today was 615!!! Help!! Why is this happening? People would tell me he might start napping again once he starts school or going to bed earlier from being exhausted. But that's not happening at all. We are going from a 12 hour night to an 11 hr or less. What time will I even put him to bed tonight?! Ugh

[Chloevalentine]

After waking up at 615 and having an all day bday party he started falling asleep in couch at 430 I managed to keep him up and he went to sleep around 715/730 and up today at 7!after being exhausted. It seems he's doing 11 hours average at night now since I've been waking him in morning. Wonder why he doesn't do the 12 hours anymore especially since he started camp twice a week. He's sleeping less!!

[deb]

It may have something to do with the long summer days. Is he getting lots of outdoor time in daylight during the day? Bright light during daytime (and dimmer light closer to bedtime) can help prompt the body to release melatonin on a better schedule.

[Chloevalentine]

Yes plenty of outdoor daytime and trying to make it as dark as we can in living room didn't tv show before tub but it is hard being that it's light out until 9. But his room is always dark. Going to just keep an earlier bedtime when he wakes at 7 I'll aim for 730 bedtime and just hope he doesn't wake 11 hours later at 630!