6.5 month old suddenly only taking a short 2nd nap

[HettyO]

After reading the baby whisperer book I finally realised I was doing my bf, poor napper, prop supported, frequent waker 4.5month old no favours so set aside two weeks to put him onto a routine. Best thing we did. By day two he was self settling at night and down to the one necessary hungry feed. Within the week he was napping nicely twice a day for 1.5-2 hours each time.

He still naps well in the morning for 1.15 but his afternoon nap is only about 45mins now. This initially coincided with period of constipation but has never got better again. We're nearly three weeks on now. The last week he has also started to wake more at night and I believe is linked to poor napping (instead of the one WU abut 3 now WU at 10.30 and 5 and is starting to look like ha bit bas ed on regularity last three nights-he had previously STTN a few times but failing that we had shortened his obe WU to just a 5 min feed)). He still goes down independen at all naps and at night after routine.

His EASY routine currently looks something like this, give or take 30 minutes here ot there

E 7 WF and BF
A
S 9.30/45-11
E 11 BF (very short)
A
E Solids
A
S 1.30-2.15
A
E 3 BF
A
E 4.30
A
S 5  may nap in car/out and about for 30 minutes but never in cot
A
S 6.30

I'm assuming we're going wrong with our easy somewhere but I'm not sure what to tweak.

Additional points:
- He seems ready to drop his 11 BF but I'm  reluctant to cut that out this early.
- He's generally happy in himself. The last hour before bed can be trying but he's not consistently grouchy at this time and the occasional can at 5 seems to make no difference.
- last week we were away but carried on with regularity of his routine

[Lindsay27]

So happy you are loving EASY! I think just at a glance I think he might need an A time bump as 1.15hr and 45min naps are both typically UT.  My DD is 6 months and is doing a 3hr A time so I think if you push by even 15mins you'll start to see the naps lengthen out and have 2 solid naps and drop the CN.

[Scottishmummy]

Welcome to BW!

I agree with Lindsay.  Some babies have A times which increase during the day if you get good naps. 2.5 hrs looks right for first A time but you could try 2hrs45 for 2nd A time for 2-3 days and if you still get a short nap, push that to 3hrs after that.

As Lindsay says this is 3-2 transition time, so that might get you to 2 naps

[HettyO]

Thanks so much for your responses.  We'll  aim to lengthen the gap bewteen the two naps then. He's usually pretty good at indicating when he is tired so will try and listen to him a bit more. Will ultimately aim for atoast a 3 hour gap by increasing it slowly.

We actually cut out the early night wake yesterday so it was just the one at 2 (which I thinks pretty good as he's bf) but then he did wake up early 5.30. Hopefully  once we sort naps night time will settle down again.

Will update on how we get on and I'm  sure I'll have more questions along the way?

[Scottishmummy]

Yeah, the 5.30 wu might be under tired because of the late 3rd nap.

Good luck with the later 2nd nap, hopefully getting through the 3-2 transition will help get better naps and wu times

[HettyO]

For the last two weeks he's hardly taken that 3rd nap though so can't pin it on that unfortunately. The early wake up happened for the first time this morning. And I think it's playing merry havoc with routine today and is not helping things.

We've gone for later 2nd nap this afternoon,  only 15minutes and seemed happy enough going along with this. Definitely not happy anymore and definitely not asleep. Now into the realms of over tired unfortunately  but no sign of him relaxing yet 

[Scottishmummy]

Oh dear  do you want to post your day and we can see if we can make any suggestions.

[HettyO]

Thanks. I got him down in the end but only for 30 minutes. Never had a day like this before, but then we've never suffered from early wake ups either and I've never struggled getting him down for naps like this.  We use PuPd as needed. I've hardly had to use it since we established naps. For Euan I've not used it for longer than 30 minutesbefore we have a break in the room but out the cot so that he can calm down.

Today has gone like this,

WU 5.50
E 6.30 bf
A 
E 7.15 solids
A
S 9.30-11 (despite trying for earlier,  happily went down second attempt)
E 11 BF
A
E 12 solids
A
S  3-3.35 (having had a break from cot went down for nap without tears, this was or third attempt)
A
E  4.30 he'll have his solids

Do I aim for bedtime as usual  at 6.30

[HettyO]

I forgot to add he had a bf at 2.30

He's also always woken from his naps happy, gurgling to himself etc. Even after his short 30 minute one this afternoon.

[Scottishmummy]

How did BT go?

I wonder whether he ended up OT because of the longer first A time with the EW then the push of 2nd A time on the same day? 

Alternatively, he's done a big A time jump and was UT when you started trying for the nap but then got OT because he couldn't get to sleep.

Was he showing tired signs before you started WD for the 2nd nap?

[HettyO]

Ironically he wasn't  OT at all in the build up to bed time and went down as normal, on his own. Was happily asleep by 7.

Having thought about it it almost seems to me that despite his EW that he's kept to his old routine. The fact that he seems to have woken happy from both naps, and after a break way from cor gone down for these calm might suggest as you say that he's ready for longer A times.  Of course I'll see how he is tonight and tomorrow goes first before laying money on that.

Will watch him carefully tomorrow and try and time naps better. We're clearly going through a transitional period. It's  difficult as he doesn't seem to have the same give away tired signals anymore. And he's so interested in everything these days he sometimes doesn't realise hismelf that he's tired. This was the reason i started with the EASY routine. Earlier he was rubbing his eyes which I took as the sign to start WD routine. This usually takes us 15 minutes.

Thanks so much for your support! It's really appreciated and sometimes an outsider can see what I can't

[HettyO]

Update: we've successfully extended A time to 3 hours and that's by going off of his tured signs. I know it's still early days but naps haven't changed in length and the first has even shortened to just 30 minutes (still getting 2hours cumulatively across both naps). He's still waking up from naps happy so I took this that he was still UT and didn't try to resettle him. However after reading other posts I see that a short 30 minute nap could actually be OT and because of the extended A time. Is this the case? Should I definitely be resettling him at this point?

Nights are back to how they used to be with just the one WU for an honest feed but last two days we've had EWs. This also reinforced by assumption that he was UT but could this also be a sign of OT. He isn't otherwise showing signs of OT throughout the day or even before bedtime and remains happy. Perhaps starting to develop 'tured eyes)

I realise we wont see miracles overnight but want to make sure I'm helping him as best we can. Just not sure how to move forward. I need to break this OT/UT tired cycle I know before we can start to lengthen naps and gain some form of predicability to our days again

[Scottishmummy]

Hi

Yes, 30 mins is often OT.  I think you used to get a good nap at 2.5hrs for first nap & it was just second nap that was short? Some LOs (like my DD) have A times which increase as the day goes on.  I'd try going back to a shorter first A time (2hr30-45) but increasing 2nd A time to 3hrs?

If he's needing 3hrs first A to take the nap however, it could be that he just needs time to get used to the longer A times.

Is he still taking a 3rd nap or do you do EBT? Could you post your days in EASY format to help get an idea of how they're going?

Xxx

[HettyO]

Hi thanks so much for response.

Today's easy has gone like so....

WU 7
E 7.30 bf
A
E 8 solids
A
S 9.35-10.45 (this is the longest he's managed in last few days)
E 12 solids
A
S 1.30-2.35
E 2.35 bf
A
E  4.00 solids
A
S will be 6,30-7 (no matter the day he has this is always the same )

There would  normally be the one nighttime wake between 2.30-4 where he will be given a limited feed between 5-10 minutes.

He still self settles for all naps after WD and is able to self settle during the night too. I am usually aware of him doing this once about 12.

 Have very much taken the cues from Euan today and useductive those as our guide to iinitiate win down etc.  We have seen an improvement in his naps today. Yesterday he managed only two half an hour naps.

Could it just be that this is his new norm?  He's still content and happy

[Scottishmummy]

Hmmm, not sure. I'd give it a few more days with similar routine & folowing his lead and see what happens. Two 30 min naps doesn't sound like enough day sleep for his age, but 2 naps of over an hour might be ok if he does a long night and sleeps well at night. My DD did two naps of around 1hr15 after she went through 3-2 and was ok on that.