2-1 transition help with 1 year old

[JennVanessa1083]

It's ok...i was using this board as a sounding board of sleep deprived mania lol just feels like everyday is a shot in the dark.

As for the routine, that's the one thing I am afraid of in doing the long am vs a short am nap is the possibility of him rejecting a CN completely. However, I'm finding it very difficult to gage a good A time after a 30 minute am CN. Then just when I think (yesterday), I got it somewhat right, he gives me a long NW and a short night (7:30-6am). So I wondering if the long pm nap is influencing the EMW or long waking bc maybe I don't have enough A to BT or maybe it's still a case of UT/OT loop.

Today he slept 2 hours on a 4.5 A time. It was stretched accidentally bc I took a morning nap while DH watched DS and I woke up late. He actually was totally fine when I saw him, playing and joyful. He fought sleep a little with a couple of years but fell asleep rather quickly. I'm going to attempt a 20 minute CN at 3.75-4 hrs A time to hopefully get to a 7:30 bedtime.

Today was:

WU 6 am (it's getting earlier and earlier)
S 10:30-12:30 pm

So I'm attempting a CN 4:15-4:30 for 15-20 minutes and hopefully have a BT of 7:30 pm. So I guess an A time 2.5-3?

I have heard of people switching off days and would like to go that route since DS doesn't settle with OT very well. Mood wise he's great but it always comes out in his sleep.

I do not nurse to sleep often. Usually he can self-settle unless it gets desperate.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Good luck with the catnap! If it all goes bust try an ebt to make up the difference. Is he lower sleep needs? For us the nights never lengthened until DD3 was on one (capped) nap and we only briefly got 11/11.5 hr nights. We are back to 10.5 now with no nap besides the odd catnap.

[JennVanessa1083]

I think DS sounds like DD3 bc he seems to be fine on 12.5-13 hours of total sleep. It's when it gets lower I start to see some issues.

He's never been a "sleeper." He's very active and curious so I think if it were up to him he wouldn't ever go to sleep. Tired cues are so unreliable which is why I rely more on a clock.

He averaged at 10.5 hours of total night sleep and wakes up happy so I don't worry about that so much. I guess asking a person who has an LO with lower sleep needs, I'm not sure how to have an EASY where wake ups are consistent on a 10.5 night. (Sometimes he has 11 hour nights)

I'm wondering after a 2 hr nap what would be a good A? I was thinking 3.75-4hrs A so hoping it works. What would be a good bedtime after a short 20 minute CN? what about if he won't take the CN, when is BT?

Also in general, do I cap a long am nap to squeeze a short CN in the pm? No right, I think the general idea is letting him sleep as long as possible.

I'm not sure if I want to continue with the long am/short pm. But out of curiosity, if I were to stick to my current routine of short am/long pm would it be reasonable to stretch the first A to 4 hours then do 30 minutes followed by a 3.25 A before a long pm nap? Or is hat asking for a disaster lol

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

The issue you run into with this transition is there ends up not being enough hours in the day to get in two naps, enough A time and still get a long night! Even swapping the naps around you may have to cap the longer one if you want to preserve the catnap and bedtime. Tbh I have never done ebt so have no idea how early you could get away with! Our bedtime has always been a set bedtime and we never managed to change it evem if naps were crappy lol.

Tired cues were not reliable for us either at this stage...and yes our lo's sound very similar!

[JennVanessa1083]

Lol I'm realizing more and more that the 2-1 is not a one solutions fits all type of thing.

I have only done EBT a few times and he seems to tack on a little bit of sleep but never a 13 hour night for example. The most I have ever gotten is 12 hour nights.

Yesterday naps weren't the best but despite all that and a late bedtime, he only had one full wake up but was tossing and turning a lot around 5 am. Eventually he went back to sleep. We had an 11 hour night two nights in a row with longer A times so at least I know that he was UT which was causing all the issues. I am finding that he is easily handling more than 4 hour A times in the am and prefers sleeping more in the am than a longer nap in the pm.

How do you do a fixed bedtime? I feel like ours is always fluctuating between 7-8ish.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

12 hours is tacking on for a lsn kid

Lol I'm realizing more and more that the 2-1 is not a one solutions fits all type of thing.

And this is spot on! With what you have said re longer than 4 hr A I would totally try a few one nap days!

As for fixed bedtime...well my DD2 has ASD and we have run by clock time since she was a baby - we cannot seem to break out of the habit of doing things at the same time every. single. day. Lol supper is 5:30 on the dot! So even though DD3 went with the flow and napped around everyone else's schedule she just never was ready for sleep until 8pm (her older siblings bedtime)! Now more like 8:30 for summer as it is so light out and her sleep needs have dropped a bit.

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha I guess so! Well at least I know he is capable of tacking on when he's very very tired lol

The last few nights have been good. He has been doing 11 hour nights with one NW which is great. I know I have to wean the last NF which is the one NW he does but it's certainly a great improvement. The longer A times are definitely helping. We are visiting family so naps haven't been as consistent but he's still doing great nights so this is giving me so much hope that once we get home things will continue to get better until something else rocks the boat lol

I am also finding that the longer am nap is suiting us great. Today he did a 2 hour nap in the car which is unheard of! So aimed for a tiny CN to tie him over to bed considering his grandparents want to spend time with him rather than him going to bed at 6 pm!

Interesting about the set bedtimes. I feel like with him he does better with a 7-8 pm bedtime. Anything after that messes with his night sleep. I do notice that he's been waking up at 7 am consistently which never happened unless I woke him so I guess his little body clock is finally setting!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yes it sure sounds like it! My older two had 7/7:30 bedtimes when they were smaller, it is a fairly "normal" bedtime for most lo's. So glad it is all going so well...fx it continues at home too!

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you! It's all trial and error. Yesterday he had a total of 2.5 hours of day sleep yesterday but overall only had 11.5 in overall sleep bc of extra long A times during the day. He had a slightly long NW and only slept almost 10 hours not including The NW. Does that sound like too much day sleep? Maybe I should limit it to 2.25 hours of day sleep so he can have more night sleep?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Some kids do okay with shorter nights and longer naps...mine always liked the reverse - longer nights and capped naps. It is all trial and error at this point! You could try a bit less day sleep and see.

[JennVanessa1083]

Hmmmm yes lots of trial and error!

I'm getting 2 NW again. One around 2-3 then 5-6. He's tossing and turning a lot and when he wakes even with a feed he doesn't go to sleep right away. His wake up is all over the place again. We just got back from visiting family.  I have been trying this:

WU 7:30
S 11:45-1:15 pm (A 4:15; yesterday he did only an hour in the car on our way home)
S 5:15-5:45 pm (A 4)
BT 8:45 pm

Maybe a push to 4:30A in the am? Maybe the later bedtime is messing him up? Does it sound UT lol I feel like I never know!

[Shiv52]

If he's already at 4.15 I wonder would you be better pushing it out a bit and just get to 1 nap?  I'd be inclined to just jump to 1 nap but that's what we did here with both mine. We needed an odd day with a CN but we were much better on one nap.

What do you think?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi!

I was thinking of pushing to closer to 4.5 today and see what happens. It hasn't been 4.25 exactly. More like between 4:10 (yesterday) or 4:20. I get different nap lengths on those times.

Yesterday was 55 minutes with a 4:10 A but it was in the car so that could be a factor. The other day he woke up at the 40 mark after a 4:20 A but then drifted in the car for another hour or so. We were traveling a lot in the last few days. 

Do you think I should give 4.25 more of a chance or just go ahead and jump?

Part of me just wants to jump but not sure if I'm moving too fast lol

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I would just jump and allow him a couple of weeks to adjust! May take a bit to get a consistent long nap but as Shiv said you can always toss in the odd catnap if it is really needed.

[JennVanessa1083]

Sounds like a plan!

If he does a two hour nap I'll aim for a EBT. If he does less, I may do a 20 min CN bc I don't think he will make a decent BT. Is that what people do correct?