Struggling with feeding and getting to a 3 hour easy with 3.5 week old

[Clairehv]

Hi
am posting for some help/advice as I feel I am in a complete pickle with DD2.
Ayda is 3 weeks and 4 days old. Was a section delivery but a good birth weight 8lb 7oz and a lovely healthy baby. I am doing combination feeding, had started off positively with BF (after a dreadful experience with DD1) and had thought it was going well initially. Then was demoralised as after her weigh in a 4 days where she had lost the expected 7% by day 7 had not gained weight and in fact had lost. By two weeks she was back at birth weight.
So no health issues with her now.

However I had hoped by week 4 to have been moving towards the 3 hour EASY but my issue is the feeding.
Regardless of whether I offer a breast feed or bottle each feed time seems to take at least 1.5 hours with her being very sleepy and taking gaps but then not settling at all after a feed. I do think she is windy but is also displaying some symptoms of silent reflux which our oldest daughter had.
I spend ages trying to wind but then if I lay her down on her back she just makes these repeated coughing/barking type noises and won't settle then will start crying and I pick up will head bob so I offer her breast or bottle again.

My concerns are how to identify true hunger/ vs her trying to comfort pain. She is a good weight and also a month old so should be able to stretch between feeds.
Our whole A time is spent feeding so essentially I always feed to sleep.
Some examples of how the last days are

Wednesday
7.30am E 90 ml expressed,
Not settled 40 ml formula, + another 30 ml formula. Tried to settle from 9am
9.30 really crying 30ml formula
S- 10.10-11am woke fussing/crying tried to settle
E- 11.30-12.15 60 ml formula
     12.45.        30 ml formula
S. 1.15-1.45
E  1.45 50 ml. Then really unsettled couldn't get a burp for ages
S 3.15-3.40 then crying
E  3.45 bf LB 10/12 mins then crying/pulling on/off but then head bobbing, offered RB and was head bobbing wanting to be on but then screaming, stopped and just walked around rocked until 5pm
E offered RB 3-4 mins
S 5.10-5.45
Bath around 6pm to fit with DD1
6.10 offered bottle bedtime feed. Realised after 30 mins was only chewing teat.
6.45-7.30pm took 60 ml, kept seeming asleep then crying
8pm 30ml
S 8.30pm-

E 12.15 am RB: only 15 mins then fast asleep couldn't interest
E 4.15am lB 15 mins then really fussy on/off both LB and RB asleep on me from 5am into Moses at 5.30 then asleep but doing the funny cough throat/hacks type noise
Woke 6am

Thursday
6.30am: offered bottle. Just chewed teat for 20 mins
7am E 60 ml
7.45 E 30 ml
S 8.10- 9am woke really crying
E BF 9-10am
S 10am-10.15 then really crying/screaming
10.30 E offered bottle sucked for 20 mins but only had 10 ml
S 11-11.40 then red face, crying knees pulled up
Asleep in arms for 10 mins then crying again
E 12.00 90ml
S 12.40-1.45 in Moses then managed to settle in arms upright 1.50pm-3.15pm
3.30 E crying. Offered bottle took until 5pm to have 90ml in small bits, fussy I winded several times.
No sleep
Bath
6.05 BF RB 20 mins LB 20 mins (fussed on/off)
7pm screaming/crying, tried to offer bf but just got worse
Projectile vomit
8pm 30 ml bottle then asleep.
2am sucked teat for 20 mins - about 20 ml. Vomit then asleep
S 2.45am-5am
E 5.15 am 40 ml asleep on me 5.45

Friday woke up 7.15

So my concerns: I was just feeding as and when as could it be a 3 week growth spurt? However I am concerned about her being in discomfort or genuinely hungry before trying to stretch.

Dd1 fell quite easily into the 3 hour easy ( we had to wake to feed) so I am just feeling confused.
We did have gaviscon prescribed by GP at 11 days old but I have held off using just in case it wasn't reflux. Happy to try it.

Any advice greatly appreciated. I don't think a feed should be taking this long and particularly given she doesn't seem satisfied afterwards

Friday Saturday haven't seen much improvement.
I can post today's info if needed


Thank you
Claire x

[Clairehv]

Please help...
Following my above post.
Yesterday was really difficult and today hasn't started out well.
It has taken DD2 from 7.15-9.15 to get through 90 ml in small amounts. Every time I thought she was settled and tried to put down then she fussed cried and if I picked up then she rooted.
I really don't know if I am mis reading the cues. She has now been awake for over two hours.

I am not able to spend any time with dd1 as these feeds are so long and feel constant regardless if I breast or bottle feed. I don't know whether to try a pacifier but don't want to if she is genuinely hungry.
The same as trying a sling. She doesn't settle until she has fed more and more even if only for 1 more minute.
At the moment at 9.30 she has just taken another 30 ml after crying and rooting.

So it is almost 9.45 and I am still in my pjs. Due to my section I am not really going anywhere and DH has an agreement with work that he can do childcare drop off and pick up for dd1 but in a week I am going to have to be able to leave the house by 8am.
How can I sort this feeding length out?

Feeling really low about this as just not sure what's wrong. We had 3 vomiting episodes yesterday as well.
Let me know if I post yesterday's routine to be helpful.
Thank you

[Lindsay27]

Hi hun!! First off congratulations on your DD2!  It is important to remember that these are still the early days, so as hard as it is don't worry too much if things don't quite fall into place quite yet, I found that with both of mine it was easily 8-9 weeks before they were beginning to really establish EASY.

I am going to get some BF and reflux eyes on this for you, but it sounds like reflux could definitely be an issue, and my advice would be if the doctor gave you a prescription I would absolutely try it...it won't hurt and if anything it might help identify if there really is something else going on yk? When you first offer her feed is she draining the bottle?  If so that is an indication that she needs more right from the get-go.  If not and she wants to feed again/is rooting 30mins later it does sound like it might be comfort feeding.  I personally am pro-paci, both my kids used them, so it is an option that I would consider trying.  I'm not super knowledgeable with reflux but I do believe it helps comfort any pain and helps to settle.

[trimbler]

Hi there, sorry I don't have long now but just wanted to offer (((hugs))) and say what I've read from your post sounds so much like my DD was - we struggled through with her struggling to feed and gain weight etc, until she was almost three months and then was diagnosed with silent reflux and tongue tie - I'd definitely try to get her seen (can you get someone to come to you?) for both of those and have a go with the gaviscon, although tbh I've heard that it can be tricky to get down and for this reason my LC recommended ranitidine, which our GP was happy to prescribe straight off - we were so glad we did! Oh and feeding improved loads once she had the tongue tie snipped

[Lolly]

I would also start the gaviscon and get her checked for tongue tie if she hasn't already. The coughing is typical of reflux - my DD did it from the day she was born until we got it controlled - never when anyone medical could hear her though That's a long time to take to drink from a bottle, they should be done in about 20 mins.

Are you offering formula in the bottle? If you are make sure you discard the bottle by an hour after she has started drinking from it.

Have you tried her with a dummy? I would to see if she actually just needs to suck and it does help with reflux too.

Laura

[Clairehv]

Hi
Thanks for the responses.
We started with gaviscon yesterday and I also have moved onto size 2 teats.
DD1 had definite silent reflux with some similar but also different traits. She screamed the place down and didn't lie on her back for 24 hrs straight and there was a marked improvement as soon as we were prescribed gaviscon.

I feel like a first time mum with DD2. Very confused by her cues and crying.
Positive she doesn't have a tongue tie as it was checked several times but will ask HV again. She also latched on very well and seems to BF well.

Don't feel yesterday or today has gone particularly well.

Saturday
6.00 am WU crying / rooting
6.15am E 30 ml then just awake
7am 60 ml (assume as less than an hour this is classed as 1 feed).
S 7.40 -10 (resettled at 9am)
e 10.10am  60 ml ( then burped and vomited)
10.45 30ml
s 11.10-11.50am then crying / rooting
12.00 90ml expressed.
12.45 into sling
S 1.15pm- 2.00 pm
E 2.15 60 ml
S in arms 3pm ( tried to put in Moses - crying after 10 mins
E 3.15 60 ml
E 3.30-4.15 BF
S 5pm-5.20pm
E 6.10pm -6.45 120ml, 7.15 crying. Offered BF - 30 mins then real fussing / crying on/off
7.45 30ml top up then just awake. 8.40pm vomit. Then rooting again
9pm 60 ml
S 9.30pm - 2am.
E 2am 60 ml then sick. Not interested
S 3am, crying 4am. Slept unpright on me until 5.30am
E 5.30am BF
S 6.15am-7.15am

Sunday (today)

E 7.15 - 8.45am (1.5 hr) took 60 ml in several small amounts
Would seem settled then start rooting again
9.15-9.45am 60 ml,
S seemed asleep 9.50-10.10am then crying /rooting
10.15 60 ml, managed to wind successfully
11am 60ml!!
11.40am into pram to try and stretch out between feeds
S whilst walking /rocking pram 12-1pm
E 13.30 60ml
S 2pm-2.30 in arms. Into Moses but woke crying at 2.45pm. Burp then crying
Couldn't settle
E 3.30pm BF
S in arms 4.15pm - 4.30 woke when put in Moses. Put in sling. Crying rooting from 5pm on and off
E 5.30 30ml to get through bath
E 6pm 30ml then fast asleep
S 6.15-7pm woke crying
E 7pm-7.40 90ml - drained bottle
Then 20 ml then 10ml. Very fussy crying red face/pain?
S 8.30pm

Fingers crossed that's it until 11pm.

I am so aware that she isn't sleeping enough and we are just all over the place with the feeds.

I am breast feeding when j feel I can (I.e no visitors etc, I just don't find it that easy so there isn't a fixed feed every day. Tbh I had such a horrendous experience first time round that any breast milk she gets is a bonus.

I am aware these are really long emails so I appreciate any input. Good night for now x

[*Ali*]

Do you think your supply is established yet? If you're offering lots of bottles at varying times then it will be sending confusing signals to your body unless you are pumping each time you offer the bottle. It's probably best in the long run if you can offer the bottle for the same or similar feeds each day or if you offer the breast every feed and top up with the bottle afterwards. I understand that may be hard if you don't feel comfortable feeding with company or in certain situations just now. As you say every ounce of breast milk is very worthwhile though ☺

Another thing to consider is that LO might be getting frustrated with the breastfeeding if she is getting used to getting the formula quickly through a size 2 teat already. It's usually recommended to stick to the slowest teat possible if you want to mix feed and avoid bottle preference.

[Lolly]

Another thing to consider is that LO might be getting frustrated with the breastfeeding if she is getting used to getting the formula quickly through a size 2 teat already. It's usually recommended to stick to the slowest teat possible if you want to mix feed and avoid bottle preferenc.

Good point for feeds that are just milk - however if there is gaviscon in the feed you will need the no 2 as although it is designed to work in the stomach, it does thicken the feed too and it's very hard to get out of a no1 teat - been there, done that

Laura

[Clairehv]

Hi,

Re the bottle feeding.
I always had wanted to ensure DD2 would take a bottle and then I suppose I have been finding the breast feeding tricky and time consuming I have become more reliant on the bottle.
I moved to size 2 teats due to the length of time a bottle feed was taking and also that she seems to fall asleep after 20-30 ml or sometimes isn't even drinking just has teat in her mouth. My thought was if she struggles or chokes then the flow is too fast and I will stay on teat size 1. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

She seems a very sleepy feeder with a breast feed or bottle and to be honest neither of them seem to have sorted out this feeding over an extended period of time issue.

Due to the time spent feeding, then no I haven't been expressing after every bottle feed.

I appreciate my milk supply will be affected. I am happy with going to full bottle feeds. Had hoped to do some BF for 6 weeks.
If she was not getting milk when I am BF would she not fuss/cry at the breast?

Maybe there isn't a solution to getting the feeds shorter.
Or maybe I should just go fully to bottles now to stop confusion.

We do seem to be getting less of the weird Throat clearing coughing noise now she has had the gaviscon for two days.
Just need to work on filling her up more efficiently.

X

[becj86]

I think given she's having issues transferring milk both with bottle and breast, I'd get her mouth checked really thoroughly for tongue tie, and anything else that might affect the suck and swallow motions.

Glad the gaviscon is starting to help, those first posts definitely sound like reflux too.

Is she taking more milk any faster now she's had the gaviscon? She's young I'd have thought for being averse to feeding due to pain from reflux but its possible...

[*Ali*]

I'm sure she is getting milk at the breast. One of the signs of having to work too hard to get the milk is falling asleep while feeding so no it doesn't necessarily follow that she would be crying if she was struggling to get milk.

I'd definitely get her checked for tongue tie as pp says.

[Clairehv]

Hi thank you for the support so far.

So I had thought Monday had started more positively but then things deteriorated during the day.
Sunday night she had only fed once- from 1.30am to 3 am breast feed.

So when she woke at 7.15am on Monday i think she was definitely hungry as we had (based on prior days ) a good first feed

E 7.30am 90ml drank quite quickly, took 15 mins to wind and then 30ml more at 8.10am
Tried to settle in Moses from 8.20am, crying 8.40am- I offered the rest of the feed. She drank 30ml and then fell asleep. (Was this a misread of the cue, just I have just worked to settle without feeding to sleep.
S 8.55am- 10.30am (woke her self after best day sleep for a while. As 3 hrs since start of last feed I assumed hunger )
E 10.40am only took 20 ml then fell asleep - I think this is odd?
S 10.55-12 ( woke herself) - now the rest of the day goes wrong

E 12.00 90ml then 30 + 30 expressed with burps in between.  Finished 12.55pm. Then fussing until another burp at 1.15 - then really crying/ rooting on my neck
Drank another 20 ml expressed (emptied bottle) so I offered 30 ml formula, drank 10ml. Seemed tired
Into Moses, crying picked up, asleep in arms, into Moses - crying after 3-4 mins
S 2.30-3pm by rocking in pram. Woke crying , tried to settle, I felt she was rooting again ( does she do this due to discomfort?
E 3.20pm-4.40pm: worked through 120ml with burps and crying whenever she came off the bottle
4.45 put in pram and took for a walk. Escalating crying until 5.20pm. She stopped when I picked up
S 5.20pm in arms until 5.55pm
Bath
6.20pm E drained 50 ml of expressed then hysterical crying, pushing bottle away, red face calmed byb6.45pm
6.45-7.45 pm drank 120 ml in small amounts with burps and crying.
Then seemed settled but crying again at 8.10pm
8.15 30ml then settled and sleep
S 8.30pm -11.30pm
11.45pm : 60 ml not interested in any more
S 12.30am- 2.30am
E 2.45am 30 ml : couldn't interest in any more
S 3.15am- 6.30 am

Today
6.30am BF LB 20 mins RB 20 mins, quiet and awake until 8am, crying offered top up, only took 10 ml ( missed OT cue and feel she needs to suck to go to sleep.
S 8.20am-

So she is clearly not getting enough sleep yesterday afternoon which probably led to the crying and fussing at the bedtime feed but any opinions on yesterday's afternoon behaviour?

I am going to see the hv tomorrow and will get her weighed and tongue checked and then maybe I can be more confident she is getting what she needs and be tougher on the sleep, or restricting the feeds to time limit.
Gosh I feel so unconfident.

Xx

[Lindsay27]

Have you tried a paci at all hun? I am thinking if you do you might be able to determine hunger vs other crying/something else more easily with a paci.

When she woke on Monday morning and took the 90mls did she drain the bottle? If she did I would offer more right from the get-go.  At this age I don't think my DD wasn't really doing more than 90-120mls per feed so I'm thinking all the extra top ups are either comfort feeding because of the reflux or because she tired. 

I think her small feed at 10:40 was simply because she wasn't hungry...if you think, she took 90mls at 7:30, then 30mls at 8:10, then 30mls at 8:40, that's a total of 150mls in about an hour, so at 10:40 I don't expect she would be hungry ya know?  Those small feeds I would instead try to offer paci and see what happens, she just may need comfort sucking. 

[Clairehv]

Hi
One of my mummy friends has suggested a paci/dummy.
When would I offer ?

Re the bottle: I am making up 150ml bottles so no she is often not draining. When she drains the smaller amounts I do try and then make up a small amount of fresh and offer again.

What kind of WU time is typical for a 4 week old? 1-1.5 hours?
I think I am missing the tired cues or have got her used to sucking/feeding to sleep.
At least she is young enough for me to change things.
The gaviscon does seem to enable her to be more settled when lying down. The throat clearing/coughing noise seems to have reduced.

Thanks for the help x

[Lindsay27]

I think what I would do is offer her feed, say she takes 90mls then burp and offer some more.  If she doesn't take any more but then a little while later seems unsettled, crying, rooting, fussing etc then offer the paci.  If the paci doesn't change her behaviour then it is possible she is still hungry (or experiencing the effects of reflux), but if it calms her and helps her settle it probably means she just wanted to suck.

I'm not super versed with reflux but my DD does have a mild case, and she is on raniditine.  Great news that the gaviscon appears to be working but if you think she is still experiencing symptoms there are other options

[becj86]

Its so variable with newborns - most at this age are feed, nappy change and back to bed. When they make it to 1.5hr awake is dependent on when they 'wake up' from that sleepy newborn phase so many babies have. Its typical at 3 months though.

A time at this age is probably more like 1hr than 1.5, for most babies.

[Clairehv]

Hi
Re the A time I agree I think she is getting very OT. I do not remember DD1 being awake this much at 4 weeks.

I went to the baby clinic this morning.
Whilst Ayda has put on weight she has dropped on the percentile line, so the HV thinks she is 'snacking' and I need to work on making sure she has an effective feed and trying to stretch her in between so then she feeds effectively again.
She has suggested I breast feed, ensure active feeding- nappy change halfway, winding etc, then when she seems finished try and rouse and offer a top up of expressed/formula to then be. Confident she has had a good feed so if then she is crying 15 mins later etc we can probably rule out hunger and then try and identify the overtired or discomfort cry.

Yesterday afternoon I managed to settle her with the dummy/paci in my arms And transfer into Moses so she did go 3 hours from the start of a feed to the next and she seemed to feed well.

Today so far
7am BF around 45 mins total.
Crying from 8.20am previously would have tried to feed again, but she fell asleep in arms.
S 8.30-8.55: woke up as we got to clinic. 9.15 crying, didn't settle until home
E : 10am took 130ml
But only settled in arms, when put into Moses seemed uncomfortable and woke up
11.10 crying / rooting
E : 11.30-12.15 BF
S:12.35 settled with dummy. WU 2pm
So seems to be waking now at 2pm and that is a 2  1/2 stretch so not quite 3 but better perhaps?

Haven't done the top up yet as she seemed settled after the BF but will try that as well.

[*Ali*]

What did the HV say about her taking so long to feed each time? Who are you seeing to check for a tongue tie? Make sure they are trained in that area and that they feel inside the mouth and not just look at the tongue or lips. 
It's normal for babies to eat little and often at this stage, certainly 2hrly so I wouldn't try to stretch her too much. She is probably wearing herself out trying to take in enough milk if it's still taking over an hour to feed so she just may not be able to take enough milk to go any longer. That does sound like a problem with the milk transfer. I wouldn't worry about sleeping lots in the morning and then being awake lots in the afternoon and evening. That is really common. It's not called the witching hour for nothing. 😉 She's still really tiny.

Can you wear her in a carrier/sling when she gets OT and upset?

[weaver]

Baby is so so tiny, I wouldn't read anything at all into not doing 3 hours and what seems like 'wonky routine'.  She's still getting used to the big world.  Use a sling if you have one and can (after the section?). TBH, my LO2 spent most of her first six weeks snoozing on my shoulder or in my arms   A routine emerged gradually from around 3 mos.

If you have the least concern that she has TT try to see a Lactation Consultant, preferably someone who comes recommended. The HV may be well intentioned, and even well informed, but unlikely to have the same level of training about TT.

[becj86]

Maybe try an A time of ~1:10 or 1:15 then. Its so easy to misread tired cues for hunger at this age.

[Clairehv]

Having googled TT then some signs are there
Long feeds
Falling asleep during feeds then waking quickly after
Wind/reflux
Callous on top lip.
Will call HV and BF counsellor today.

This is the link I looked http://www.mommypotamus.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-diagnosing-tonguelip-ties/

Thanks for advising me. X

[Clairehv]

The other issue is naps.
I haven't been able to get her to nap or fall asleep other than on me apart from yesterday when I walked her with the pram.
I watch her cues. I.e this morning she woke at 6.40. Had 120 ml formula starting at 6.50am.
8 am yawn and very sleepy in arms. Tried to put in Moses basket. Crying literally as put down. Tried to settle in Moses by shh patting but escalates. Calmed as soon as in arms. Tried again and then put in sling. Slept 8.45-9.40 in sling when started crying again.
9.50 am E 120 ml end 10.30am
10.45 asleep in arms. Tried putting into Moses, woke up immediately. Calmed in arms. Slept again tried putting into Moses crying again so tried in pram. Crying getting louder. Picked up 10.40,  calm in arms now but not asleep.

So I am not sure how to stretch out the feeds if she won't sleep and how do I get her to sleep other than on me?

Thanks

[Lindsay27]

I am wondering if her A time is a bit too long? I would only expect her to really have an A time of maybe an hour, this morning if she woke at 6:40 and you caught her first yawn at 8 she maybe have already been past her window by then, ya know? In all honesty for the first 2 months I held my DD for a lot of naps, or she had naps in the sling or swing.  I would say it wasn't until 8/9 weeks that I really tried to establish naps in the crib.  At 4 weeks I was maybe doing 1 nap a day in the crib.

[ireneasheard]

Just wanted to say hope things improve. The early days are tough especially if you have an older child and drop off needed. Also early days activity is mostly feeding anyway.

At that age I spent time working on routine - particularly sleep time routine. Establishing wind down and putting down baby drowsy. I can't comment on reflux issues as none of my babies had reflux (only gassy). I would persist with put down. My son was also crying when being put down but I persisted in putting him down drowsy and now at 11 weeks fully awake and he self settles. Don't give up.

You could try a walk in the pram if you need baby to take a short nap.

Re tongue tie my son had tongue tie. Would definitely get an ibclc lactation consultant to take a look and examine baby's mouth to confirm. My son had a tie that was snipped at 3 weeks and our feeds improved immensely. (Breastfed baby here so it was causing a lot of pain but my son was still managing somehow to put on weight so he was transferring milk efficiently). Good luck.

[Clairehv]

Hi
I haven't fallen off the face of the earth and do appreciate the help
have had 2_3 difficult days and am feeling a bit low to be honest.
Have moved fully to bottle feeds but haven't been able to put her down at all for naps.
She is asleep on DH at the moment so going to wash my hair and go to sleep but will post our EASY or lack of tomorrow. Really need some help
Love C x

[becj86]

Hugs honey. Hope you get a good sleep in. Enjoy your shower!

Sorry you're having a rough time.

[Clairehv]

Thanks Bec
I presume I need to start a new thread as Ayda nearly 6 weeks now.
Anyway we moved fully to bottle feeding on sunday so have done 5 full days of that.

My main issue now seems to be settled her for naps and keeping her asleep.
I think we struggle a lot with wind and I do suspect reflux. Am back at GPs tomorrow

Our last few days have looked like this:-

Monday (5 weeks old)
WU 6.30am
E 6.50am 60 ml expressed/60 ml formula
S tried to settle from 7.50am seemed asleep in arms, woke up as soon as laid down (regurgitation sounds and shuffling) then asleep in car seat 8.30-9.45am with a WU at 40 mins

E 10 am 170 ml
S wouldn't settle in Moses. Put in pram and walked. Sleep 11.10-11.30 woke up hysterically crying, kept walking.she stayed awake
Crying from 12.30pm
E 1pm 50 ml fell asleep ( only 20 mins sleep from 10am
S 1.15-1.30 then crying and burped
E 1.40pm 40 ml
S 2-2.15
Got back to sleep in arms at 2.40pm- 3.10pm crying/discomfort
E 4pm 40ml
S in sling 4.10pm-5.45pm
Bath 6pm
E 6.20-8pm : 150ml plus another 10ml. (Drinks 1-2 oz at a time then has breaks/I try to burp
S 8.15pm-11.30pm
E 11.30pm 50ml sleep
E 4am 70ml
Asleep on me from 5am ( wouldn't settle in Moses)

Tuesday
WU 7.40am
E 7.45am- 8.30am 100ml
S in sling 8.55am- 11am ( didn't risk swapping to Moses)
E 11am 70ml end 11.50am
S in pram 12.05-12.30 then awake,crying from 1.20pm- 2pm
2pm 110ml
S 2.40pm on me , into Moses about 3.30pm continued to sleep until 4.30pm
E 4.30pm 110ml
6pm bath
E 6.15-7.45pm 100ml, slept until 8.45pm then had 60ml
S 9pm-11pm
E 11pm 30 ml ( 2 poos wouldn't have any more milk
E 3am 100ml
Sleep 5am-7.30am

Wednesday
E 7.30am-8.10 120ml
S in sling 8.45 transferred to Moses , woke straight away, asleep in arms, crying 9.30am
E 9.45am 90ml
S in arms then into pram 10.15-11am
E 11.30 30 ml, then 12.00 30ml
S 12.20-1.10pm
E 1.15 -1.50pm 100ml
S in car 2.30-3pm: wakes as soon as lift car seat out
S in car 4pm-4.45pm
E 5pm 120ml
Bath
6.30pm 40ml fell asleep on bottle until 7.30pm
E 7.30-9pm 90 ml
Sleep 9pm-1.30am
E 1.30am 90 ml
WU 4.30am refused milk, lots of trapped wind and trumps
Sleep 5am-7am

So today has been similar with her really not getting enough sleep and just seeming uncomfortable, has cried through feeds as well today.

I am really at a loss to know how to settle her independently, Orr at this stage do I just focus on her sleeping any way I can as I think I have one overtired baby.

Xx

[becj86]

Honey, I think until the reflux (I think that's what is happening too - just the 15-20min naps with long periods of crying at different times of day, waking as soon as lying down, regurg/gurgling sounds when laid flat) or whatever the discomfort is is sorted, you just have to do what you can to get her to sleep. I would suggest a slightly shorter A time at 6 weeks, maybe 1hr to 1:15 max and see if she settles a bit more easily as those short naps could be OT/OS but from your descriptions, I would bet on the pain. I would think sling and carseat naps where possible and raise the head of the cot for night. If she currently sleeps in the cot at night, I would keep that up as it will help in the long run when you want to ST but at this point, I'd not worry too much about independent sleep for naps - you just have to get the sleep into her and do that how you can.

[Clairehv]

Thank you.
Feel like I am getting so much wrong right now.
I try and settle her from just before 1 hour awake but it is taking a long time to get her to sleep as you can see from the A time.
Feeds are taking such a long time even with bottle.
She has just woken at 2am having been asleep since 9pm and has only had 40ml.
I don't want to force feed as I know that's a mistake with reflux.

Will really push the GP this afternoon for some meds or a paediatric referral.
X

[becj86]

FX for your appointment!

[Clairehv]

Hi
We have been given infant carobel powder to thicken the formula. Have been told to try for 3-4 days and go back if no improvement.

I have no experience with this treatment but will give it a go.

[ireneasheard]

Look at the positive - you are getting what looks like 4 hour stretch between feeds at night. My boy was similar at that age. Daytime was different here though... first challenge is dealing with the reflux but if it were severe you wouldn't get that stretch in the night. Friend of mine has had 2 kids so far with bad reflux who were up every hour.

[Clairehv]

Hi
Yes DD1 had reflux although as soon as was treated by 10 days did settle well.
I am certainly grateful for the nights as it could be worse. I make sure she is in a deep sleep upright on me before laying her down and I do just think she knows it's night time.
Anyway will see if this thickener does anything.
Because of the regurgitation and swallowing and coughing maybe an hour after a feed I suspect it is the acid coming back up so not sure just thickening the milk will help but we will see.