Battling to sleep every time

[lynnyloo85]

Hi everyone.

We are really struggling with naps (he's a week short of 6 months old), he doesn't sleep any longer than 30mins at a time.... you could set your watch by him! It doesn't seem to matter how much activity time before he gets (its been anything from 2hr to 3.5hr ) and he still just sleeps for 30mins. It can take me anywhere between 10mins and 45mins to get him to sleep, and I can only get him to sleep by pushing him in his pram ( I know this is a whole other problem in itself    ) He wakes up crying and looks tired and always yawns straight after as if he hasn't slept. I've tried putting him in his cot to nap and doing the shh/pat but he just cries to the point where he's coughing which makes me feel terrible for doing it to him. As he sleeps so little during the day I try to get in 4x naps to compensate for the short time. Just feel like I am spending my whole day (and night!) getting him to sleep.

His night sleeping was great until he was ~15 weeks old and then it slowly went down hill to the point where I've  had to settle him 2/3 during the 2hrs between him going to bed and me going to bed then during the night up to 4 times. We started the shh/pat with him and we are now down to 1/2 night waking's (1 due to him rolling over in his sleep and then not being able to roll back over) and then managing to go back to sleep.

The only difference between naps and night time shh/pat is that he feds to sleep at night whereas during the day he is awake.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi & welcome to BW!

Short naps and broken nights are tough & exhausting for everyone.  It's interesting that night sleep got worse around 4mo too, that's a common sleep regression but can get stuck.

It does sound like the key thing to try would be some sort of sleep training to teach him to self settle.  I think it sound like he's getting overtired from not settling easily and also not able to resettle between sleep cycles.

It sounds like using sh-pat for night time helped reduce your night wakings which is great. Can I just check- is he self settling at bedtime using sh-pat, or is he feeding to sleep?  It's not clear to me from your post.

I wonder why sh-pat is not working for naps? Could you post your typical routine in EASY format (or last couple of days if routine varies) and also describe what kind of activities and wind down you are doing?

[lynnyloo85]

Hi & welcome to BW!

Short naps and broken nights are tough & exhausting for everyone.  It's interesting that night sleep got worse around 4mo too, that's a common sleep regression but can get stuck.

It does sound like the key thing to try would be some sort of sleep training to teach him to self settle.  I think it sound like he's getting overtired from not settling easily and also not able to resettle between sleep cycles.

It sounds like using sh-pat for night time helped reduce your night wakings which is great. Can I just check- is he self settling at bedtime using sh-pat, or is he feeding to sleep?  It's not clear to me from your post.

I wonder why sh-pat is not working for naps? Could you post your typical routine in EASY format (or last couple of days if routine varies) and also describe what kind of activities and wind down you are doing?

Hi firstly thanks for responding.

He is feeding to sleep at night not sh-pat. His routine today was
0700 WU
0730 - 7oz milk + 1 spoon porridge
Out and about in the car so slept then - would be 30mins
1130 - 6oz milk + 1oz cube carrot
1400 - nap 30mins
1450 - 5oz milk
1700 - 3.5oz then fell asleep for 30 min
1900 - bedtime started
1930 - 7oz milk and in bed by 1945.

Activity wise we just play with his toys or read a book or put him in his jumperoo. We don't really have a wind down routine, when he rubs his eyes and yawns I just put him down and try get him off to sleep. He goes from being fine to a rub of the eyes and then to shouting in seconds when he is tired.

It's probably not the most structured day but we're trying to put a routine in to place. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[lynnyloo85]

After trying the sh-pat to get him to nap during the day and not succeeding it's not having the same effect during the night anymore. Last night he was up 3 times. The first to turn him over as he can only roll one way yet and gets stuck but he went back to sleep without anything. The second at about 0200 I used sh-pat brcause he was unsettled but he was pretty sleepy whilst doing it so didn't seem to have a problem but then at 0600 he wouldn't stop crying with the sh-pat and I ended up putting his dummy in which got him to stop.

Is using a dummy during the sh-pat defeating the purpose of it?

[Scottishmummy]

Hi again!

Could I just ask what time the morning naps were in the day you posted? It just helps to get a rough idea of A times?

I think I would suggest a few links to read first then come back and tell me what you think...

First step would be to identify his A time I.e. The time awake he needs to take a good nap. Averages are in this link: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
As a indicator, after how long awake does he start showing tired signs?

Next I think a wind down for naps & night sleep is really important. We couldn't go from an active day to straight to sleep without some chill out time and neither can a baby. My son was a nap refuser and setting up a good wind down about 15-20 mins before he needed to nap really helped. Here's a link to read: What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)

I think sleep training to teach independent sleep for naps and nights would also make a big difference. At 6 mo & used to movement or feeds to get to sleep, Pick up put down might be the approach to try : Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!
This link suggests not using a dummy if you're trying to sleep train with PU/PD

Have a read of those links and please get back to me with your thoughts

[lynnyloo85]

His morning nap is 10 / 10.30.
I'm really struggling to get some sort of routine in place thats age appropriate for him. If I were to have something that I knew what times he was meant to be eating sleeping or activity then I could get on better. Such as being able to wind him down 15/20mins before a nap at say 10am, I would know when to start the wind down.

I used to know what his cues were for being tired and then putting him to sleep but at the moment it's just one extreme to the other in seconds. He'll rub his eyes once and then just start shouting.

Independent sleeping is main goal and with pupd I think (and hope!) that it will help with getting to nap in his cot.

[Scottishmummy]

It's tricky to suggest naptimes to you as BW is a routine not a schedule and it's about trying to find the routines which suit your baby.

There are some sample routines here to have a look at:
chronological EASY samples, 4-6 months

10am might be a little late for the first nap as it's too end of average A time for his age. With a 7am Wu, maybe try to start aiming for a first nap around 9.30 (asleep by 9.30, so start WD around 9.10/15) If you feel he's not tired enough then you could always push it a bit later gradually.

[lynnyloo85]

Are there any example of routines for babies who are short nappers?  All the other ones are 1.5-2 hr a nap. I'm lucky of he does this in a whole day!:

[Scottishmummy]

I don't think so! The BW approach advocates trying to get longer naps, at least in the earlier months, as these are more restorative.

That said, lots of babies go through phases of short naps & lots of people adapt their days to suit.   My DS only took short naps until he was about 6mo old which used to really frustrate me but with a combination of sleep training and increasing his A time we started to get one long nap a day sandwiched between 2 shorter ones. 

I'd note the time he starts eye rubbing. If he goes from that to shouting, than the time of the eye rub *might* be the time he would like to be asleep.  So if you notice he starts eye rubbing around 2.5hrs for example, aim to start WD before he starts to show tired signs e.g. around 2hr10-15 in the hope he'd be asleep by 2hr30.