A bit desperate now :(

[FPT23]

I've gotten rid of the paci and swaddle...

But he will not sleep. I've dropped to ONE nap a day and it's usually 2.5

Only way he will sleep is in his stroller...

I'm on the 4th day and it has not gotten easier. i PD earlier for naps knowing how long the wind down can take... I've PD when he's OT and it was worse as he cried right away.

He won't soothe in any other way and he's been rolling so I cant swaddle again. Paci he was just taking it out or messing with it. I was up to legs out, and one arm out with the swaddle.

Before he would be fast asleep within 5/10 mins with the paci, swaddle and a pat/head rub. Now neither the patting or head rubs work in his crib.

It takes 3+ hrs to get a morning nap and by then I've took out a few times to feed and then it's just an afternoon nap ...I never leave him to cry and we attempt several times but I can't take the crying he does. It breaks my heart and makes me feel I've done something wrong here or I can't help him 

ANY advice please. He's not sleeping at all during the day unless we are out in his stroller. How long can this possibly last. He's just crying and nothing helps ...do I give in again to the swaddle and pacifier? It's our 4th day out- figured by now there would be some change!?

[Lindsay27]

I would honestly go back to what was working before.  We kept the swaddle even after DD started rolling.  She just did.not.sleep without it.  So we kept it until she was 5 months when she made it clear she didn't want to be in it anymore.  As for the paci, even if he is taking it out he was getting some sleep with it, correct?  I am so pro-paci it's not funny lol, I would never dream of taking it away lol, but I can understand if you think it is a prop getting rid of it. 

I just know I tried to drop the swaddle 3 times and it was abundantly clear she was not ready.  She was not rolling in it so I didn't think we had a safety issue so we kept it.

[FPT23]

Thank you Lindsay!

That's the thing; it wasn't working before anymore once he started rolling. I didn't mind the paci until it started becoming an issue for suuuuure now. He also started refusing it and getting mad when we put it in. He refused it out of no where but not just for sleep... In general.

We are going on a week and things have not improved at all. It's agonizing. I'm at the end of my tether and don't know what to do.

I still swaddle at nights w the paci...it takes me just as long at BT too. Doesn't make a difference. I just hold him regardless until he falls asleep. But it's like a nap too. Long... Non stop and refusing paci but I just keep holding and reinforcing it as I feel I'm out of options here

The thing is- when we've had successful naps- he naps well over and hour. So it's like he's ready and can sleep--- getting to sleep is the problem. We can't figure that out. It's killing me to see him this way!

He sleeps better without the paci/swaddle though so it's getting him to find a way to fall asleep that's causing the chaos.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))), deep breaths, and *4 month sleep regression*

How are things now?  Did you want to post an EASY?  Mine have never fought that badly unless (1) in pain, (2) big development things or (3) totally wrong routine.  Are you sure he's not got reflux or similar?  Teeth?  Both mine had them by 4 months....  I agree if you are both getting mega OT and stressed out I would go back to what works for a bit, get a clear head and then start back (as Tracy would) by observing and seeing what your LO is telling you.  It will be something! 

[FPT23]

Thank you Jessmum!

Things are still bad. As I mentioned previously, the hard part is him getting to sleep. A pat/head rub was what worked before swaddled/paci but seriously, nothing works. He just tries to shove his fist in his mouth... He can't find a way to self settle. I used to love that I could soothe him from the crib but we've regressed and now he has to fall asleep on us again for a bit but I PD after 10 mins and finish off patting and it's a hit or miss but better than before I guess. But it takes FOREVER and lots of fighting! He's used to going off in his crib easily. Sigh...

It definitely has to do with developmental things- which is why we had to ditch the swaddle. Truth be told, he sleeps better without the pacifier and swaddle. We were already legs out and one arm out. He had started rolling both ways.

Could possibly be teeth? He's always with his hands in his mouth but no teeth in sight yet? No reflux either for sure.

The problem here is, he can't go off to sleep. I had gotten some advice to PD sooner so he would be less fussy and since I knew it would take awhile to go to sleep.... And it did work b/c he wasn't fussy and not as many tears.... BUT he got to the point where he was eventually OT b/c he couldn't go off to sleep... And then it began all over again. I guess he's just distracted with his hands and feet but this long and still hasn't gotten better? I've offered blankets and little toys to help him (loveys) but noooope. If I PD before OT he just hangs out in the crib but just won't go off to sleep.. I stay with him and try patting or helping him in a new way but I kid you not- nothing works. It's mind blowing! I expected 3-4 days but going on 2 weeks?!

His EASY is out the window... As he sometimes rejects the nap entirely or we go over the hour trying and I have to take out and feed and try again, kind of thing.

But basically he's on 2hr EASY and naps around 9am or so depending WU time, somewhere around midday and then a nap around the 3pm ish mark.

I'm so baffled that after almost 2 weeks of removing them, he still can't find a way to go to sleep in his crib. I don't like that I've reversed to sleeping in my arms as we had done so well from the crib. Any suggestions? He just will not go to sleep haha! He does eventually CRASH and we end up with 2 naps a day somedays.

Help

[FPT23]

I don't understand how 2 weeks in he still cannot find a way to fall asleep.

He can sleep well into the nap... But he just cried and cried and screams in my arms, in the crib... No matter what.

Takes hours...

I'm so baffled... And very sad about it

Even when I try early, he's calm and everything but then he can't get himself off to sleep (while me three trying attempts) and into it he gets OT and mad- then it all starts again.

[jessmum46]

I had gotten some advice to PD sooner so he would be less fussy and since I knew it would take awhile to go to sleep.... And it did work b/c he wasn't fussy and not as many tears.... BUT he got to the point where he was eventually OT b/c he couldn't go off to sleep...

This NEVER worked with mine.  I had to put down when they were tired, not before.  If I went too early/did too much wind down neither ever settled well whereas with the right A (and not in pain) then they went off in less than 5 mins.  Literally if was aiming for 2h A time I wouldn't take them to their rooms until 1h55 and I'd be out of there a minute later - into sleeping bag, cuddle and down - no more wind down than that.

I know it feels all over the place but take a step back and write down exactly what happens for the next 2 days, when he wakes/eats/you start trying for sleep/tired signs you spot etc etc and then post here.  My bet is there's something that you haven't spotted yet but hopefully we can fix it together

[Lindsay27]

^^Yes I agree, I inly leave about 5-10mins before I actually want them asleep.  Especially my DS.  He was so spirited if you attempted a nap before he was really good and ready he'd take an eternity to settle which just frustrated the both of us.  And yes, keep a log for the next 2 days and then we can take a look!

[FPT23]

Thanks for the great advice ladies! I appreciate it.

I'll do that and post it and maybe you all see something I don't! The weekends are always off since we have swim lessons, and basketball games, family events etc! I'll start Monday writing it down since it will be more consistent, being at home more and as best I can until then. Hopefully your eyes can help us out. Thank you

Let me go ahead and post yesterday as best as I remember (he's 18 weeks)

WU: 7:15am

E
A
S 9:30 (when he went to sleep. Attempted since 9:00am ish) - 10:15

E
A
S 1:30 -3:00 (attempted since 12:30)

E
A
S 6:00 ish -7:30 (attempted since 5:30 in car ride. Went out and he stayed asleep the whole time in stroller/car ride)

E
A
S attempted BT at 8:30 but he was awake as ever.

BT 9:30

NW: 2:00 ....WU today at 6:45

And you know what? Y'all are right. When he had the paci/swaddle- i went in 5-10 mins before. Less is more w him too. However, before I attempted putting him in earlier, I was doing it as before. The result was the same. He can't seem to fall a way to sleep is the issue. Basically he just plays with his hands and feet.... Then gets mad or OT. He tries but can't seem to get it right. He just shoved his fist into his mouth. As soon as he starts to doze off in the crib, here come the hands. Buuuut, he does give me long naps here and there. So I don't know how to help him at this point I'm so lost on our A times for that matter since he just extends it with this long process

[Lindsay27]

To me I think you are in a UT situation. If he woke at 7:15am and fell asleep around 9:30am I think he's probably telling you that attempting the nap at 9am was too early since that was only about a 1.45hr A time, and at 18 weeks I would think he would probably need 2/2.15hr.

[FPT23]

That's true! He's usually at 2hr A time. I guess I went for it earlier to avoid crying. If I miss the window he's mad too ...but seriously, he's such a chill happy baby so the nap struggle is breaking my heart. It's really the only time he gets so upset/crying

Today was awful for his first nap and ended up doing OT 30 mins but I resettled and he slept another hour and now he's a happy bean again. Haha!

I left him to it as I realized I was making him more upset it seemed when trying to soothe him by patting or head rubs... Once he settled, I hid in the corner of the room (haha!) and after 45 mins of attempting to sleep and almost did-- he got upset and fell asleep within 5 mins on me. This was at actually 2.15 mins that i attempted and PD. Maybe OT by then? I'll PD a bit before 2.15 or maybe at the 2hr mark. I'll def keep track as best I can and post.

Other eyes might help. This could very well be an EASY issue. I'll try to be detailed as possible!

[jessmum46]

I agree I think that day you posted ended up UT, then OT then UT for bed, but OT overall from too long a day. 

I would try PD consistently at 2h for first nap and take it from there, making sure you def put down by 2h after a short nap.  If you get a late nap you need to wake him!  Majorly painful I know and it can mean dealing with a seriously grumpy LO for the last bit of the day but I've found preserving a consistent bedtime to be so so helpful for my LOs.  On that day you posted I would have either cut my losses and made that 6pm sleep bedtime, or else given literally 15-20 mins catnap and gone for a 7.30pm bedtime. 

Looking forward to seeing your EASY logs

[FPT23]

Thanks for the advice!! Your absolutely right!

Yes I've tracked yesterday even though we will be out and about. I try and aim for the first 1-2 naps at home if I can!

I'll post soon! I'll aim for that 2hr A time for the first nap. See how it works for us! Thank you

[jessmum46]

Good luck Hun x

[FPT23]

Thank you!

Just a quick happy note...

He fell asleep on his own for the first time! A little fussing here and there but he did it! YAAAAY! Thank you all! I'll see how the rest goes... I'll still keep track of my EASY.

Had to share

[Lindsay27]

Woot!!!

[FPT23]

And....

1.20 hr nap

[jessmum46]

Awesome!

[FPT23]

Keep y'all posted

[FPT23]

Hi there! Well here's my EASY

Thursday 5/23

WU: 6:45

E
A
S 10:10 (attempted since 9. Tried in my arms, fussed. PD and left once he was calm instead of helping him as usual. He stayed calm and quiet and almost went to sleep on his own, but never fully could. Ended up PU and fell asleep in my arms, PD and had hand on chest.) -- 10:40. Resettled 10:55-11:55

E 12:30
A
S 2:15 (car/stroller- errands) -3:15

E 3:30
A
S 5:00 (car ride) - 5:30

BT 7

Friday 5/24

EW: 5:30 resettled in our bed

WU: 7:30 ish

E
A
S (pd 9:20) asleep by 9:30 - 10:50

E 11
A
S (at a restaurant stroller) 12:55-1:30

E 2:00
A
S 3:30-5:30 (I woke up!)

E 5:30
A
BT 7:30

6/25 Saturday

Ew: 5:20 resettled

WU: 7:15

E 7:30
A
E 9:00
S 9:55 (car seat. Ds1 Bball game) -10:30

E 12:00
A
S 12:30 -2:50 (we woke!)

E 3:00
A
S 5:00 (car seat. Out) -5:30

BT 7ish

6/26 Sunday

WU: 7:30

E 7:40
A
S 9:30 - 10:40 (I woke up. DS1 swim lesson)

E 10:45
A
E 11:45
S 12:50 (a bit late. Were out grocery shopping) -2:45

E 2:50
A
S 5:10-5:30/5:45-6:00 (car seat. Out)

BT 8




Things have just done a 360!! It's been all long naps since and long sleep stretches thanks for the help ladies! Always good to take a step back and ask for a little advice! I'm sure this won't last forever haha I'll be back with more questions I'm sure haha

I appreciate all the help and suggestions!

Yay! !

[jessmum46]

That's great!  To me skimming through those it looks like 2h is about right for first A, and that even after a short nap he can handle 2h or so second A.  I'd be pushing for more like 2h15 or perhaps even as far as 2h30 after a good solid first nap x

[FPT23]

What would be considered a long nap? In order to push him, in other words.  After a good nap I already do 2.15 and I've had to wake from those as he easily can go over 2hrs.

Yes 2hr was perfect for both the morning and even after short naps.

It's been amazing around here. Finally. Regression seems to be subsiding

[Lindsay27]

I consider a 1.5hr nap to be a good/normal nap.  Anything less (1.20hr) I would consider UT, and longer I would consider a really good nap or sometimes a "catch up" nap where my DD will pull a super long one to catch up from OT.

[FPT23]

This was our EASY yst:

Fri 7/1

WU: 6:00

E 6:15
A
S 7:30-8
A
S 10:00 - 11:15

E 11:20
A
S 1:20 -2:45

E 3:00
A
E 4:45
S (struggled a bit. Pat) 5:20

E 6:30
A
S BT (PD 8:05) asleep on own 8:45

Yesterday was the first time he slept in his crib at BT without swaddle. So that's why he prolonged BT.

So how do I go about extending his A? Starting with his mornings or after his first nap? When I've extended I've normally extended 10 mins at a time but I want to make sure how to go about it better this time and now w/ his long naps.

[FPT23]

I have another little issue.

He's been I.S, all naps. Unswaddled and without the paci. He was doing so well we figured nights he would be ready too (20wks old now) ...so for the last two nights, we PD in his crib the same as naps. He's been struggling to go off on his own and wakes after 2/3 hrs... Then wakes up at 5am. We try to resettle at least until 6am and he won't, so I just bring him to bed after trying 1 hour usually.

Any suggestions for this? ...he self settles after his night feed and he's only needed 1. TBH, when he would NW we would just do the swing and insert paci. So maybe it's just a matter of adjusting? He has been swaddled for nights.

Could it be a matter of adjusting? He used to sleep at least 6-8hr stretches before now he wakes after 2/3 hrs of BT PD... I've been feeding, then he goes back down and wakes again at 5/5:30. He's normally not one to EW. Again, not sure if it's just a matter of learning new ways at night or he's needing longer As?

Suggestions? Also his naps are also not as easy and wonderful as they were haha! How can I go about pushing A times when he's OT from his bad nights and EWs?

Yst I got a 30 min nap (I resettled) after 1 hr nap and 2hr A time. But i feel he might be ready for a push too.

Jessmum u had suggested 2.15/2.5 pushes here soon.

What do y'all think? Also...if he does EW and doesn't resettle... For example 5am WU no resettle, would his first nap be around 7-7:15? Or how does that wrk? It's like a different animal- naps and night time/BT. He goes down independently for all naps... Can self settle after feeds at night... But is waking after 2/3 hrs then EW..

Thank you!!

[jessmum46]

With extending A I always started from the beginning of the day and pushed from there

Why was the first A so short that first day?  I thought you were aiming for about 2 hours?  Plus that made the day really long with 4 naps....I'd have made that last one a tiny catnap and gone for an earlier bedtime I think.  I found at this age having 4 naps really did mess us up, can't be helped sometimes but I would try to get those As pushed out and if you *have * to have a 4th nap make it tiny.  I think your night time issues are stemming from over tiredness from too long a day - bringing BT earlier will help with that.  And pushing the A despite OT or you end up in a nasty UT/OT spiral

On those EW days I would do a full A time first thing, and just see how the day pans out.  Often you get a long nap somewhere to compensate.  Keep an eye on overall day length and don't be scared of early bedtime if it all goes wrong x

[FPT23]

Thank you Jessmum  

Would you only push that first one or all of them?

The first A was short b/c I brought him to bed w/ us and he fell asleep on me again at that 7:30 point

7/3 July

WU: 5am (tried 1 hr with no resettle. Brought to bed. Slept 6:15-8:30)

E 8:30
A
S 10:45-12:30

E 12:45
A
S 2:45-4:30

E 4:30
A
S BT (PD 7:00 calm) asleep by 7:30..some fussing but very minor. Just adjusting to sleep. 

NWs: 11:45am (fed..he used to sleep until at least 2am and I would feed), 4:00am (wouldn't resettle until 5:40am)


This was yesterday. ^^^^ aaaand today after finally falling asleep at almost 6am WU at 8:10am.

Basically, he won't extend past 3-4 hrs at night.  I was thinking it was due to the new change  but it's been 3 days and the cycle continues. I went for it since he had been sleeping I.S and now all naps have extended due to him I.S. Last night was horrible. He normally sucks his thumb but he just won't at nights... But naps and at BT he goes down on his own. Would absolutely refuse any help and it took us almost 2hrs to get to sleep. Due to the EWs and sleeping in, he did just 2 naps. (Easy above)

Well, currently our naps are horrendous. He used to go down so easily (what a great week that was ) ....but his long nights have him OT. He's still taking long naps. So what do you suggest? He's ready for a push I think. He's fighting his naps due to OT but needs the push, I'm pretty sure. He's OT after a good 1.5 nap, he's ready come 2hrs but I was about to start pushing. His morning A we had it down the first time with your 2hr A suggestion. After good naps I was aiming for 2.10. He's doing that on his own now with fighting the naps and extending them... He's OT for sure. Even having pushed the A time he's just harder to settle then More OT from him pushing out that A before naps.  When he's UT he just plays and rolls around, then fusses a tiny bit trying to get comfortable. No real tears, or upset. He's been nothing but upset at all naps and as soon as I PD begins to cry and refuses to settle.

I've tried to push regardless, with good naps to 2.10 A time but he pushes it farther with refusing the nap, and being soo OT. He's barely making it to 2hr A. I'm ok with pushing. Just wasn't sure how to go about it at THIS  point. After his naps he's great! Happy as ever. He hasn't short napped me (and refused resettling) just yet... Pretty good on the nap lengths. I was thinking the NWs were too much day time sleep and was ready for a push. But he's getting in the loop b/c his awful nights.

So regardless of EW.. Say, 5am (yesterday it was 4am), should I nap at 7??

But his waking every 2-4 hrs at night is so new to us. Super rare at that. I'm scared of an EBT because if he's waking at this rate... It will be a LONG night and want to be up for the day at 5am. Just off of his pattern.

What do you think, love? xo

[FPT23]

Update:

7/5

WU: 6:10

E 6:15
A (2.5 with good night)
S (PD 8:20) 8:40 struggled - 9:20 (no resettle. Happy)

E 10:40
A (2.15)
S (PD 11:25) 11:35-1:10

E 1:25
A (2.20 with long nap 1.5+)
S (PD 3:20) 3:30-4:40

E 4:45
A
S (PD 7 super fussy. Fought it) 8ish

Slept straight 8hrs in which I woke up because I felt uneasy with him not breastfeeding at all in the night. Woke him up at 4am to feed.

Extending has helped! A few questions though...

Nap times, majority of them, he can't go off to sleep as easy as before. Could it be the OT as he's adjusting to new A times? He really pushes them out super far and then his A time ends up being super longer than it should. For example... I PD in the mornings 5 mins before 2.15 A time (I've been extending) and he went down calm but after 5/10 mins he got frustrated I guess and wouldn't go off to sleep. He ended at 2.45 A time ...it's like that for every nap. Could it be UT or OT? I feel when he went down so calm he was going to get it but ended up getting upset. I've been having to pat a lot to help and I hope I'm not adding a prop. I try and stop soon as he's calm.

Also, bedtime is always a struggle... He pushes it out super far after struggling a bit then gets to the point of OT and is just harder to go to sleep. Takes 45/1hr sometimes to get off to sleep. I'm having a hard time reading whether it's OT or UT?

[jessmum46]

Hi hun and sorry not to get back sooner.  How are you getting on? 

Would you only push that first one or all of them?

I tended to push the first one, and then if I got a good nap would try a bit extra for the next one too.

You are getting good naps at quite long A times and it is great you got a better night   Obviously you are there and can see how he's coping, but I wonder if you are still getting some resistance due to UT?  Then it is becoming OT? 

Other things to consider - any chance of discomfort?  Is he teething yet?  Gas/reflux/tummy issues causing it to be hard for him to settle or waking more often?

[FPT23]

It's ok no worries- thanks for getting back to me at the least

Well, I think it's OT... Before when I had the right A time. (When you first suggested it to me and it was heavenly haha!) if he was UT he wouldn't fuss at all. He would just roll or make noises. When he's OT he's more vocal and fussy about it.

I have been doing that- extending after a good nap. I've been trying for 2.15 in the mornings and 2.20/25 after good naps as well. Yes extending has worked even though he's a bit OT in his day from some pushing which is ok, I can handle it. He's not a total mess or anything actually... Just fusses here and there. He's not much of a cryer. Yes I've been medicating as well b/c one day after good nap and feed, he was still quite fussy... After some medicine he calmed down so I'm pretty sure there's some teething or something going on. It hasn't been frequent though. Here and there but I do medicate at night just in case.

Let me ask you, after "rough" nights and EWs, do you still continue the same new A time? Also, with the new A time, after short naps, 2.15 gave me 30 mins... Should I go back to 2hr A times for short naps as well? Can 45/50 mins mean OT too?

On another note, here's the last 2 days... Yesterday was awful. He's never had a day like yesterday.

7/6

WU: 6:55

E 7
A (2.45- after extending nap wind down)
S (PD 9:10. Calm but got fussy after a bit then upset) 9:45-11:10

E 11:15
A (2.20)
E 1:00 (little extra feed)
S (pd 1:20.. Tiny fuss. Slept quickly) 1:30-3:15

E 3:20
A (2.5)
S 5:45 (fussy OT. Had to go to bros swim)
-6:30

E 6:30
A
S (PD 8:20 but struggled and would not sleep. Upset crying OT) 9ish

NWs: 3:30 feed
---------------------

7/7

WU: 5:55 resettled

E 7:15
A
S (PD 9:30, would not sleep. Fussy) 10:15-10:45 no resettle

E 11
A
S 1:00-1:30 no resettle

E 2:00
A
E3:30
S 4:10 - 4:55

E 5:00
A
S 7:00

NW: 10:30pm -11:45pm would not resettle!! But slept until 6:40am today.

He had all short naps yesterday so I decided 7pm BT after only 2hr A from his last short nap... But it's the first night I hadn't extended and he woke 3hrs later, assuming UT. I noticed since I've increased A times, a longer A time to bed has helped. I don't know what was up with yesterday. Either way, since I've extended, NWs have disappeared and he's giving me long stretches again.. EWs here and there... Ideally I like 7am. Haha.

What do you make of my EASY? What A times should I shoot for? I also wonder if it's UT or OT though, since before he settled so lovely and fast haha

Xo

[ginger428]

Oh hun, so sorry about the changes and short naps!!! Hugs!!! Just when things were going fairly well.

Just my two cents about the A times after unsettled days... You probably know better than I do but the first A time was always the critical one to avoid OT for us. So we shortened this when needed, then tried to keep to the set (-ish) times for the rest of the day. Of course it depends on your baby. DS happened to be sensitive to the morning one as I said.

More hugs xoxo

[FPT23]

Thanks ginger! We were on a roll! But as always, it's changing haha

I think that day was a fluke. We've been back to long naps and long nights.

The problem I'm having now is, bedtime. I can't get the A time right and it's our biggest struggle. He pushes it out himself from OT or UT. At this point I get a bit lost in that area.

The other problem has been his morning nap... He's been waking at the 40/45 mark and won't settle himself back. He's acts OT... But I stick to the same A time.. But after getting these longer night stretches, I wonder if he needs more of a push in his A time for the morning nap? Or if he's OT...here's some more of our EASY recently:


7/8 Friday

WU: 6:40

E 6:45
A (2.15)
S (pd 8:50.. Tiny fuss. Asleep on his own)
8:55-9:40 happy

E 9:45
A (2.15 on 45 min nap)
S (PD 11:50 OT fussy since car ride)
11:55/12 - 1:30

E 1:30
A (2.20)
E 3:10
S 4:25 (swim practice) -5:30

E 5:30
A
S (pd 7:50-- slept until 8:15. Struggled; I had to help)

NW: 1:30 feed

7/9

WU: 6:15 resettled

E 7:15
A
S (pd 8:50 bros Bball game) 9:15-9:55 (i woke him up)

E 9:55
A (2:10 on 40 min nap)
S (PD 12:00 easy) 12:05 - 2:15 (I woke him up)

E 2:15
A (2.35)
S 4:50 (pool w Jr. Took a bit) 5:25

E 6:15
A
S 8:00 (BT) (PD at 7:45...struggled needed help)

NW: 10:30 settle on his own, 4am I woke him up to feed (I feel he still needs a NF since he's BF and on the little side)


He's an independent sleeper now a days but for the last week as he was adjusting to his new A times, we had to help settle him with patting a lot more.

Suggestions on morning nap, and bedtimes? If not I don't mind short naps... I rarely have the energy to try and resettle anyway either haha! I don't like the time it takes and the rate is low haha ..I just go on about our day. But I'm just wondering if it's an A time situation I would like to take care of to avoid NWs.

Does anyone have ideas on what's up with our BTs? And the NWs that happen sometimes shortly after?

Xo!

[FPT23]

Anyone have suggestions on how to stop waking only 2/3 hrs after we PD for BT? It seemed the push in A helped and long A time to BT ..but it's happening again. Regardless of BT and regardless of good naps.

I've never had this happen so I don't have much experience in the matter.

If anyone has tips send em' my way xo!

[jessmum46]

Wakings at that hour have generally been OT at bedtime for us, or accumulated OT.  Perhaps you need to shorten up the last A a bit? 

[FPT23]

Oh really? Hmm. Thank you!

Well I've done 2hr A time to bed and 2.15:2.5 ...I've had best luck when he's on longer A. What's would be a good A to BT from my EASY?

Also, what do you make of my first nap too?

[jessmum46]

Not sure I can help on the morning nap just yet - you had one 45 min one and one you woke him from so not really possible to comment on the A times.  Are you seeing more of a pattern than that?  Is it usually 45 mins with a happy wake?  (Sorry if I missed this earlier)  I would suggest UT if so and try a gentle push of the A time. 

For BT I think you are putting down too late - the long A may just have meant he crashed.  I think 4 full A times in the day is asking too much.  If you consider a 'standard' 4h EASY you'd have 3 full A times and then a short one at the end of the day.  I know if naps haven't been great earlier on it's tempting to let them sleep on later but it can impact on the day length and cause problems.  I would aim for a BT 12-12.5h after your typical WU time and then wake from the 3rd nap of the day to maintain it.  Something like (with 2h15/30 A time)

WU 7
Nap 9.15/30-11ish
Nap 1.15/30ish-3ish
CN around 5/5.30 for 30-40 mins
BT 7.30 so only a short A time - perhaps just 1.5h or so

Just to compare when DD was a lot older than this, around 9-10 months and on 2 naps she would do 4-4.5h A times in the day but only around 2-2.5h after the catnap.  Not saying that to suggest you should be on 4h A times!!!!  But just to illustrate that last A often needs to be short as they are tired from the whole day xx

[FPT23]

Ohhhh ok! Good advice! Got it. So aim for the 12hr day thing.

What if he's never been one to do 12hr nights? He seems to do more like 10-11... But it could be b/c we've never nailed BT!

I'll give it a try! Thank you!!!

Keep you posted on that!

The first nap-- yes he tends to wake at the 40/45 mark. But seems like an OT nap TBH. He stays a bit moody after but sometimes he's happy ...then other times he barely makes it to that same A time and still naps the same. So who knows. Guess he likes a longer A time now a days? *shoulder shrug*

[jessmum46]

Not all bubbas do 12h nights, DS rarely does   In which case you may need to aim more towards the 12.5h day and then by the time he settles it will be somewhere around the 12.5-13h mark making an 11h night kind of achievable

[FPT23]

Haha DS1 did 12 hour nights but I notice DS2 is on the shorter side..

Ok I'm sorry- can you explain how I could achieve the 12.5/13 hr day?

You mean extending BT after all? Or how-- so sorry. I got kind of lost actually haha

I don't see how I could achieve the longer day. So if he woke at 7.. Aim to have him asleep by 7:30?

Xo

[jessmum46]

The example EASY I gave above was a 12.5h day you could make it 13h if needed by doing the CN after a full A time (the example I gave suggested possibly doing it a bit early at 5pm - deliberately UT) - say 5.30-6/6.15 and then put down for bed 7.45pm ish xx

[FPT23]

Yes he seems to do best on 13hr days looks like. I tried 12hr day and he was UT at BT.

Gotcha' I'll give it a go!

Thank you

[jessmum46]

Good luck x