17mo SR? extra eyes needed :)

[Bella89]

Hi,
My DS is almost 17mo. He is an IS, and a perfect sleeper I would say. We recently 1mo ago, moved him out of our bedroom, but it was for the best.
He started STTN - we found out my DH snoring was just too much for DS :p So we had a perfect month!!
7-7:30 WU
12:30-3:00 I have to wake him up or he will go as long as 5 and EW
8 BT

But past 3 days is really giving me the hard time. His naps are perfect. Goes down by himself as usual.
It's nighttime that's the problem.
He is fighting BT at 8 (usual time), sometimes for an hour. Wakes up up to 7 times a night, stands up and cries "bam!" which is his routine word for everything right now. I have to come in, lay him down (seems like he forgot how to) and rub his back for w while.
He wakes up at 5 and sometimes I am able to resettle till 6am WU.
Oh! I noticed tonight his neck was cold and sweaty ? Any ideas?

I know it's just 3 days, but does it seem like SR?
I really think he is not in pain or hungry:/

[jessmum46]

Yup I would say regression, all else being well.  Hit at 16 months with both of mine and was just like all kind of crazy had broken loose, then literally overnight it stopped and they came out with a language explosion   Sometimes in these leaps they do need slightly less sleep, but the general rule I believe is to just hang onto the usual routine and ride it out x

[Bella89]

Oh I am so trying!!
I know we don't CIO, but sometimes when I WIWO, I feel like he just screams for me out of boredom, and I just feel dumb :p

[jessmum46]

((hugs)) these times are very trying.  WIWO has generally really wound up my DS, though it did work pretty well for DD.  When he's really not settling and upset I tend to stay with him until he settles - never seems to upset our usual independent sleeping whenever the storm cloud has passed

[Haribo2012]

Huge hugs I remember that age (dreading it with ds2 ha ha) we had awful sleep from 16-19 months (sorry) wiwo wound him up so in the end we used just lay on floor next to cot then leave. Not the best solution but you kind of got some sleep. Then like Katherine said just stopped and he woke up having swallowed a dictionary 

[creations]

Just a slightly different thought from me.
Our 18 month regression came early too (I think 16 months but my brain isn't working well today) but the dictionary swallowing happened in two distinct phases which were 18 and 21 months which I think is common.
Everyone says hang in there and keep your routine over the 18 month regression which is what I tried to do, but I had a gut feeling he needed less sleep and actually when he came out of the regression it became clear he did need a routine change and I kind of wished I'd tried it a bit earlier. What I'm saying is, if you feel any kind of gut instinct to reduce the nap I'd go for it. It may be the routine change he needs or it may just help you get through the regression.  if it turns out he needs it lengthening again after he comes out of this phase you can do that, yk?
It looks to me like the nap is quite long at 2.5hrs maybe cap at 2hrs and see if that helps BT?
It's just a thought because I know 8pm was really my limit for BT - when mine got to 2yo+ and beginning the nap drop transition it was the 8pm BT refusal that got me moving on trying to get a solution in place.

Instead of WIWO I set myself up outside DS's room with a cuppa and a book and kept using verbal reassurance and instruction "it's night time, go to sleep" and only go in if he was upset, but all the tom-foolery I used quite an instructional tone in my voice (teacher voice if you like).  Because you are talking they know they are safe and not abandoned.

[Bella89]

Today I feel like all hell broke loose. At 7:30 I have put him down. He cried for an hour showing me that he wants to leave the room. I sat by his crib as usual, but he didn't even hear me really. We left the room for 15 min, I told him we're going to get daddy for bedtime story. DH couldn't put him down for another 30 min. He was asleep by 10pm!!! I smell a horrible EW:(

How long this regression can take? I need a light at the end of the tunnel:(

To be honest, I think I need to cap the nap sooner than 2,5-3h, at 2h as you said creations. And another thing. I feel like he was OT because of the temp outside. Tomorrow, I will try BT at 7, so start with supper at 6, bath at 6:30. My MIL will tell me I'm crazy, for sure;p

[creations]

You MIL had her opportunity to do it her way with her kid/s, this is your time to do this your way (and I bet *her* MIL thought she was crazy!)

If you cap at 2hrs you are likely to see a big change as it is quite a significant reduction so should really help BT.

[Bella89]

This weather is killing me! So hot outside.
So 2 days ago I decided to cap at 2h and put him down at 7. It took an hour of crying, but he woke up at 7.
Yesterday, he napped for 3h (I fell asleep after lots of work) and MIL gave him half a cup of green tea (wonderful) so we did 9BT. Fell asleep wonderfully. He woke up at 5 and we had to start the day:(
Today was friends birthday, so we came home at 7:30. He was asleep by 8:30 no problems here again. I am dreading tomorrow morning:/

I will do that. Cap at 2h and try to shorten it some more when the wheather will settle.

[sszskristy]

Huge hugs I remember that age (dreading it with ds2 ha ha) we had awful sleep from 16-19 months (sorry) wiwo wound him up so in the end we used just lay on floor next to cot then leave. Not the best solution but you kind of got some sleep. Then like Katherine said just stopped and he woke up having swallowed a dictionary 

Hello I am having the same problem and hope to get some advice plz. Mine is 18 mth old and no problem at bedtime. But for the nap, I have to lie down with her until she falls asleep. We stay together on a single bed in her room. She just can't stay in the cot anymore for nap. WIWO used to work great for us when 12 mth SR happened but not this time. And we also have EW or NW now, not every night though. Dad will go to her room and lie down with her until 7ish.

I wonder if staying with her will create a new habit? This week is the fourth week since nap refusing and can't see any sign that this will end very soon.

[jessmum46]

sszkristy it might be worth you posting a new thread on Toddler Sleep with your current EASY to see if anyone has any suggestions - likely to get more people reading along that way  

[Bella89]

Ok, so this is what's going on past 2 days:
DS still fights BT and now nap as well.
I put him down 7:30 wishing for BT at 8, but he cries for an hour at least. I am tempted to leave the room with him for a while then just to give him a break:/ Wdyt?
He always wakes up 4:30, he lies down by himself immediately after I enter the room and falls asleep OR there is no chance of resettling:/
I caped his nap at 2h and:
DAY1: he woke up 4:30 and I was trying to resettle him till 6.00 When I gave up and started getting him dressed he fell asleep on me and slept till 10. Nap 2-4
DAY2: woke up 4:30 and fell asleep easily, woke up at 9

Capping the nap is not helping with putting him down. Rather makes him sleep longer in the morning:/ I don't know what to feel about it, because it changes our whole routine.

Any advice?
PS. Do you think at 4:30 I should still come into his room and resettle if he just needs my presence for a moment or try to make him fall back asleep on his own?

[sszskristy]

sszkristy it might be worth you posting a new thread on Toddler Sleep with your current EASY to see if anyone has any suggestions - likely to get more people reading along that way  

I did post a thread last week and actually it is still on the first page! But just one person replied...

[Haribo2012]

sszskristy - apologies if it's been missed.

[creations]

Hi Bella
It looks to me like the nap is not at the right time for him.
Looking back he had a 7/7.30 WU with a 12.30-3 nap.  IMO you need the nap at roughly this time so 12.30 (unless you get refusal in which case 1pm but you were not getting refusal before so if he will go down for nap at 12.30 then that's what I suggest) and cap at 2.30pm  This gives a 2hr nap with a decent A before the nap (as I said don't move later unless there is refusal or UT waking) and gives a longer A time before BT which is what he likely needs so he will stop fighting.

What it looks like is that with the late nap he fights BT as the A is not long enough, then he is sleeping late in the morning because he went to bed late.
As you've had a couple of days of late WU in morning you might want to ease him back to 7/7.30 WU time by waking him at perhaps 8am for a day or 2 then 7.30.  At the same time, bring nap earlier.  What I mean is there is no point letting him sleep until 10am and then trying for a 12.30 nap, you need WU earlier like before to get the nap at the right time.
I rambled a bit, sorry.

PS. Do you think at 4:30 I should still come into his room and resettle if he just needs my presence for a moment or try to make him fall back asleep on his own?

Will he resettle with a verbal key phrase from outside the room instead perhaps?  "it's still night time, go to sleep"?
Otherwise I'd go in briefly. It might just settle down after the nap and BT and WU are resolved.

I did post a thread last week and actually it is still on the first page! But just one person replied...

sszskristy - I see you have had another reply now. In this kind of circumstance if your thread is missed for 2-3 days it's ok if you'd like to PM a mod to highlight it.  Some times things are accidentally overlooked.

[Bella89]

Looking back he had a 7/7.30 WU with a 12.30-3 nap.  IMO you need the nap at roughly this time so 12.30 (unless you get refusal in which case 1pm but you were not getting refusal before so if he will go down for nap at 12.30 then that's what I suggest) and cap at 2.30pm  This gives a 2hr nap with a decent A before the nap (as I said don't move later unless there is refusal or UT waking) and gives a longer A time before BT which is what he likely needs so he will stop fighting.

I like that!! It makes lots of sense. Why didn't I see it :/ DA!
Thank you so much!

[creations]

TBH I should have been clearer earlier in the thread. I made an assumption that you'd start nap at the same time as usual and cap from there to extend the A to BT. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I hope it helps over the next few days and starts to settle a bit for you.

xx

[Bella89]

Oh that was my intention, but he started waking up so late I figured there is no sense in that:/
He woke up 7:30, so I used it and put him down 12:20. He fell asleep 12:45.
I woke him up 2:45. We were out, and I was hoping he will fall asleep in the car 7:30, but we managed to come home, drink some milk and wash up. 8 he was in bed, but he fell asleep just now, at 9:25 by himself, but with a lot of fussing
I will give it few days. He needs to catch up to these changes.
Thanks!

[creations]

Well hopefully it's jsut he needs time to settle into it. FX for you

[Bella89]

Hi, that's me again
So I'm bringing some updates, but I gotta say it's not easy here:/
I feel like if he doesn't fall asleep eventually, we have no problems, no wake ups. It's just it takes up to 2h to put him down, especially BT.
The room is dark, temp is fine, no noise. He cries for me if I try to leave the room, so I sit by his bed and move the chair closer and closer to the door each day. I don't engage a contact just look at the wall. If I look at him he tries to play with me, throws everything from the crib. It is completely not like him, so I figured maybe it is regression:(

Day1:
7:30 WU
12:30 I hoped for a nap in the car when we were driving back (30 min drive) from shopping. He was sleepy but didn't fall asleep.
1:00 tried to put him down for 45min, no luck we left the room
2:30 no luck
4:00 no luck
6:00 bath and straight to bed, we left the room at 7:30 because he was crying so hard
8:00 again,
9:30 he fell asleep

Day2:
5:30 WU
12:30 nap till 2:30 he was resistant for 30 min but gave up
7:00 bath and BT
9:00 fell asleep after 1.5h of trying, finally DH rubbed his back for 20 min and he fell asleep

Day 3:
6:30 WU
12:00 nap till 2:30 I wasn't home to wake him and MIL didn't want to, so I had to do it after I came home
7:30 bath and BT
8:30 he fell asleep

Day4:
6:30 WU
12:30 nap till now

He doesn't eat much, I think he is teething again.

What do you think?

[jessmum46]

We'll all have a different take on this but that sort of pattern plus teething would suggest OT/pain for my LOs.  I wouldn't wake from naps and I'd try for an earlier bedtime once or twice, plus I'd be giving pain meds a good 45-60 mins before sleep.  Worth a go?

[Bella89]

Hi,
yes, I actually gave him some ibuprofen before I even read your reply. I usually avoid it, but he seemed so miserable:/
It did help.

I have to wake him up. I used to think it is a wrong thing to even consider it, but DS started sleeping 12:30-5:30 and that became a problem ;] But I did add an extra hour when he was unwell.

Right now, it seems developmental. He is much more frustrated during the day, screams which he never did. Past week he had more tantrums than past year:/

His sleep is slightly better. But just a little bit :/

[jessmum46]

If teeth are really sore that might explain the frustration/screaming.  Could well be developmental though - DS was foul for several weeks before the big language explosion began!