PU/PD for naps - making things worse?! Help please

[Sungold123]

We started PU/PD about 10 days ago when we moved 4-month LO to her own room and got rid of the pacifier for night sleep. We also decided to use it to extend her naps, as she is a habitual 40 minute napper. She will have a longer nap (2 hours) maybe every other day without intervention, but besides that, you could set a watch to her 40 minutes. We have been having good success with PU/PD to get her down at first and at bedtime. In general, she actually seems more agitated now when we pick her up and calmer when she's down, so we usually put her down before she finishes crying and she falls asleep. But we are truly struggling with her nap extensions. She gets SO UPSET when we do PU/PD after she first wakes up, when she falls back asleep it's simply from exhaustion from crying. I don't see how this method will ever teach her to extend naps on her own. Will we always need to do PU/PD if we want her to nap longer, or will this somehow teach her to do it on her own? It's heartbreaking and I don't know if I can do it much longer, but she is so cranky with just a 40- min nap. Please help. 

[creations]

Hello and welcome to BW forums

Your LO is 4 months old now then?
Please can you post your EAS times, the real times of when things happen rather htan what you plan for. it will help us to see if your LOs A time is suitable or where we could advice you change things a bit. Please post a full day includign nights so we can see the big picture, somethign liek this:
WU 7am
E 7am
A 1hr 30
S 8.30 - 9.10 (40 min, tried to resettle for 40 mins)
S 9.50 - 10.30 (40 min)
E 10.30
...or whatever the times are and continue for the full day.

What is her mood and what happens when she wakes at the 40 min mark?  Does she immediately cry for you or is she quiet? Does she begin a mantra, rub her face or anything else you've noticed?  where are you when she wakes and when/how do you decide to return to her to begin PUPD again?

It sounds like you are doing very well but are understandable becoming very tired and frustrated with this. Hopefully we can help you with some tips and tweaks to your routine to help out.
I want to add, 4-6 months we often see a 'sleep regression' where short naps are common, if nothing else then hang on to the fact that most babies improve on the napping at 6 months.  Sometimes knowing there is an end to it can help us get through the tricky times.  Hopefully though we can help you see some better progress before then.

For what it's worth, my LO was totally independently sleeping from a young age (about 8 ish wks) but he still went through a phase of 40 mins short napping.  We 4 or 5 naps per day to get through and I can still remember how tiring that was so I really feel your frustration.  You will get through this, hang in there.

[Sungold123]

Thank you so much for the prompt response.

She will be 4 months in 4 days... so we started PU/PD a bit early but we needed to do something to get her to sleep in her own crib and without pacifier. She has always been a terrible sleeper, particularly at nighttime... we spent many hours over the first couple of months rocking her to sleep between midnight and 6 am and having her wake right up when we put her back down. Often it would take 2+ hours to get her back to sleep. Since moving her into her crib without pacifier, her nighttime sleep has drastically improved, and I think PU/PD helped a lot with this transition. At the very least it's given us a solid plan that DH and I can both stick to.

As a slight amendment to my first post, I guess I should have said that PU/PD WAS working really well for us for about a week. She would calm down when we picked her up and then cry when we put her down, but this would only take about 10 minutes or so before she would fall asleep. However, for the past couple of days, she FIGHTS US so hard whenever we put her down - for beginning of naps, middle of naps, or bedtime. She starts screaming the second we swaddle her and then thrashes and fights in our arms. Like I mentioned before, her behavior has reversed - she will calm slightly for a few minutes once we put her down, but if she cries again and we pick her up she will get even more agitated in our arms. I do put her down when she's thrashing per the BW recommendation. This usually goes on for at least 15 minutes as you'll see in my schedule, below. She will eventually settle (I think from exhaustion) but it's brutal, we both end up sweaty and upset.

I have been keeping track of her schedule, and this was her schedule starting with Monday night, which has been typical the past few days:

S 7:45pm - 6:30am (E 11:30pm and 3:30am, goes right back down after eating) (Swaddled at 7:30pm, did PU/PD for 15 minutes where she violently protested per description above)
WU 6:30am
E 6:30am
A 1 hour 15 mins
S 7:45am - 8:25am (40 mins, tried to resettle for 20 mins, during which time she violently protested before passing out)
S 8:45am - 10:30am (1 hr 45 mins)
E 10:30am
A 1 hour 30 mins
S 12:00pm - 12:40pm (40 mins, tried to resettle for 45 mins. I let her whimper a bit in her crib and left the room, went back in and picked her up whenever it escalated into full crying, repeat)
S 1:25pm - 2:00pm (35 mins)
E 2:00pm
A 1 hour 40 mins
S 3:40pm - 4:25pm (45 mins, tried to resettle for 20 minutes, violent protest and passed out)
S 4:45pm - 5:30pm
A 2 hours 20 mins
E 5:30pm
E 6:45pm
E 7:30pm
S 7:50pm - 6:00am (E 12:30am and 3:45am) (swaddled at 7:30 pm but took 20 mins to fall asleep, screaming while held per description)

When she wakes at 40 minutes, I hear her making noises but I wait for her to cry. She occasionally will put herself back to sleep before crying but not usually. She does rub her face into the mattress quite a bit. When she wakes up I'm not in the room but listening on the monitor to make sure she is truly awake. Once I hear her start fully crying, I go up and try to shush/pat but at this point I almost always have to start PU/PD b/c she's inconsolable otherwise. It's usually clear that she is still tired, her eyes are closed or sleepy looking and she is crying. On the occasions where she manages to take a 1 1/2 hour nap, she will cry a bit to get my attention but has wide open eyes and is smiling. If I get her up after a 40 minute nap, she is a mess after about an hour.

Overall she just seems to HATE going to sleep and I feel terrible. She is not the type of baby that will just fall asleep, even in our arms, she hasn't done that since she was 1 month old... for a time she only slept in a carrier, and now she only falls asleep swaddled in her crib. She was never the baby that slept most of the day - at one point around 2 months, we realized she was only sleeping for a total of about 10 hours each day which is when we started swaddling her and making a point of putting her down for sleep. We only had a couple of weeks where she was actually napping well! I'm thankful for the solid nighttime sleep, but I just feel so bad about how upset she gets every time we put her down, and especially in the middle of her naps

Thank you so much for your help!

[creations]

Hi again
Your EASY is written out beautifully and really helpful. Thank you.

I am assuming that when you pick up you are shush/patting in arms, please correct me if I am wrong.
It sounds now like she prefers to be in her cot and to fall asleep this way but that she is protesting the nap. Two things:
1. I believe she is protesting the nap because she is UT (under tired) and needs a longer A time
2. You might find that she responds better if you leave her in her cot and put a firm hand on her, either a firm hand so she knows you are there or begin shush/pat in the cot. You can try both.  If she does not respond well then do pick up as you have been.  The important thing is that she knows she is not alone.

At 4 months the guidance A time is 1hr 45min to 2hrs, here's a link you might want to refer to over the coming months
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
It is important to know that these are *guidance* times only and that EASY is about listening and responding to your LO's individual needs, that's why we look at the individual EASY of each LO's routine and do not have a set schedule.  So if 1hr 45 runs out to be too short for your LO you increase again to 2hrs, if 2hrs is still too short you can increase again...some LOs consistently do better at high A times whilst others do better on low A times, as you get to know your own baby you will work out what is more commonly best for her.  For instance mine did better with a very long first A time but shorter after and a very short A time to BT.

I suggest you increase the first A time to 1hr 30 for the next 2-3 days, if the short nap and mid nap wake up continues then increase again to 1hr 45 and hold at that for 2-3 days. If it is needed then increase to 2hrs - each time you increase we suggest waiting 2-3 days before increasing again to give LO a chance to adapt to the new time.

I suggest you increase the second A time to 1hr 45 as it is already at 1hr 30 and again increase to 2hrs if needed.

At the end of the day I suggest you do your absolute best to get her asleep at/by 2hrs A time so that means swaddling 20-30 mins prior to this as it will take her around 20 mins to fall to sleep.

In addition now might be a good time to try a W2S (wake to sleep) for naps.
Here's a link:
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
please look at naps option 1 on the link
I suggest instead of waiting for her to wake up you in to her room at 30 mins and lay your hand on her or hover about a centimeter above her in readiness for the first stirring.  Either before she stirs or as she stirs begin shush/pat or lay a firm hand on her and use shush or a key phrase to indicate she is to sleep.  This can be very useful in helping LO get into the habit of transitioning and avoids all the crying mid nap. You might not see success every time but it's worth a shot as it is calmer than PUPD.  You would do this for about 3 days then hold off day 4 to see what happens (if she wakes use your usual method to help her back to sleep), if needed do another cycle of 3 days W2S and again hold off to see how she does without.
Bare in mind the transition should be easier for her with the extended A time too.

If you are unsure of anything do ask.  And let us know how things go.
Hope this helps.

[Sungold123]

Sounds like a good plan and I will start tomorrow morning... couple of final questions for now.

I should be both increasing A time and trying W2S simultaneously, right? Or should I try increasing A time first, and then W2S if it doesn't work?

Due to the fluctuation in S time for naps, her bedtime also fluctuates -is this okay or should I be continually adjusting the final A time so she goes to bed at the same time each day? She usually wakes between 6 and 6:30am so that's not as much of an issue as bedtime.

Finally, how long should I keep trying to get her to extend her naps? I've been trying until it's been 3 hours since she last ate, then giving up and feeding her. So for example:
E 9:00am
A 9:00-10:45am
S 10:45-11:30
Then I'd only try for 30 minutes to get her back to sleep because at 12 it will have been 3 hours since she ate. Or should I be trying for longer?

Thanks again for all your help. Will report back!

[creations]

I should be both increasing A time and trying W2S simultaneously, right?

right - thing is you are going in there anyway for a long resettling session so instead just go in early and do the W2S, it's just a few days of it before seeing how she goes the transition alone. Part of transitioning from one sleep cycle to another is being tired enough to but the other part is learning to, you teaching her to, and the W2S can be a great way to build this habit and teaching her to transition because you are there supporting her.  You don't do it for ever, a few cycles if needed.

Due to the fluctuation in S time for naps, her bedtime also fluctuates -is this okay or should I be continually adjusting the final A time so she goes to bed at the same time each day?

Really this depends on your LO. Some will go to bed at a set (ish) time regardless of when their last nap was or if the last A is a bit short but some really won't.  You can try it if you like and if you find refusal/fussing for too long then you can take her out of the room and try again 15 mins later.  It is also fine to have BT moving depending on naps and A times and this is common at this age and when trying to settle into a routine. I would think once it all settles down you would get more of a stable BT anyway.

Then I'd only try for 30 minutes to get her back to sleep because at 12 it will have been 3 hours since she ate.

This is fine. LOs tend to go longer/easier between E when they are sleeping. At 4 months E for many moves to 4hrly (not all) but if your LO is awake she probably can't make it that long, especially if she is using up additional calories by lots of crying and thrashing.  We often suggest not to try to resettle for more than 45 mins. So 45 mins or when the feed is due as a guide.  What you are doing is great.

Good luck