8mo NW and up to play.... help!

[marjorie_kate]

Hi there,
My DD will be 8 months this week andhaz been waking at least once, sometimes 2x for a month!  It started when she was in the beginning stages of crawling so I figured it's just a developmental leap.  She's been crawling well for 10 days now and will wake at night, sit up and talk, move around or even pull up to standing!  I have let her be for 40 min before she starts crying and I go in and nurse because I don't know what else to do.
I have a feeling I'm stuck on an easy for a younger baby, but don't know how to change it so she had better sleep.  Afternoon naps have been short too. 

Here was our day:
430 NW nursed to sleep
715 WU and nurse
800 solids
930 S
1120 E
145 S- took about 15 min to sleep (talks to herself and moves all around)
230 WU, didn't settle so I got her up at 3
300 E
530 solids
645 E, then BT

Any advice on what I should change?  The afternoons are not fun with such sort naps... Thank you!

[jessmum46]

You've hit the nail on the head, her routine is too young for her so she's waking at night UT and short napping/resisting naps.  You need to extend her A times . The only reason you are getting such a good first nap with a short A time is that her night is disturbed. I would start from there and work on extending her A times 10 mins every 3-4 days until you get to something more age-appropriate.  That will mean ignoring some tired signs but if you take the change slowly you will get there!  This link is worth bookmarking for future reference: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Hope that helps!

[marjorie_kate]

Thank you for the bookmarked page on A times!  I am way off-  like an hour too little.  Just so I can understand, does this make her OT?  Even though I'm offering her more naps?  Not that she's taken the third catnap for a while now unless it's a really long day.
Today I tried to extend as much as I could.  My daughter seems pretty darn tired at 2 hours, but I pushed it to 215 in the am and 230 in the afternoon.  Tonight at BT she was a hot mess!  Very fidgity, wanted to unlatch before she was done nursing... I just put her in her crib and she screamed for 15 minutes with no settling at all.  I went back in to finish nursing as I suspected she was still a little hungry.  I'm worried she will only go to bed after nursing, but that's another topic for another day.

Today's EASY:
715 WU and nurse
800 breakfast
930 Sleep- she was asleep instantly
1130 WU and nurse
1230 a little snack with mama
150 Sleep
315 WU and nurse- I was thrilled she went over an hour although it took her about 10 minutes to fall asleep
700- Nurse then BT but was really really upset
730- Nursed again, finally fell asleep

I'm expecting some NW's tonight with the OT behavior at BT...  We have Air bnb guests staying with us so I'm not comfortable letting her stay awake at night talking and making noise so I will just go in and nurse her. 
Here's to hoping I can get a better EASY down with her in a week or so and get my nights back!  Any other thoughts are welcome.

[jessmum46]

Yes keeping A times too short causes UT short naps or UT night wakings, which lead to OT.  The idea of getting the A times up is that she takes good naps but doesn't sleep so much in the day that it causes a disturbed night, so overall she is better rested. 

[marjorie_kate]

Thanks again for your insight- she took a 45 min nap and a 2hr 45 min nap yesterday but was still very tired by 7pm.  And yet again, she was up at 400.  I fed her but she didn't fall back to sleep and was awake at least until 500.  Then slept until 745, so her normal schedule is out of whack again today.
Should I wake her after 2 hours during naps if she's still sleeping?  There is just something that seems so wrong to wake a baby from a nap for no reason, but I will if I need to. 
If her second nap is ending around 230 or 300, she's going a solid 4+hours until bedtime and then she's a mess.  I know the evening "witching hour" is common for babies, but I'm wondering if I need to bump up bedtime? 

Yesterday's EASY was:
245 NW, nurse and back to sleep
630 WU and nurse
800 solids
915 S- had to transfer from the carseat so it was not long
1000- WU and bottle (dad was watching her)
1230- S- he tried to keep her up but she was pretty tired
315 WU and nurse
400 snack
530 dinner
600 bath- fussy and tired
645- nurse and BT

[jessmum46]

Wow that's a big nap!  Whilst still on two naps I wouldn't let a nap go over 2 hours, you're in danger of robbing the night time sleep that way.  I know it's tough sometimes but if you keep letting them make up lost night sleep with long naps, they will continue to lose night sleep. 

Yes if the second nap ends early, I would bring bedtime a bit early to compensate x

[marjorie_kate]

I appreciate your help!  Still confused and tweaking the schedule.  We kept her up for 3 hours between naps yesterday and she was so OT she cried and cried and skipped her nap altogether!  Then seemed fine overall but woke up an hour after BT in hysterics.  It took me 30 min of rocking, one failed attempt to nurse and finally gave her the other (good side) and she fell asleep nursing.  Then she was up at 4 for her now common NW. 
So, I don't know what the balance is.  I let her stay in her crib for 30 min last night after the NW but  I'm now thinking I've created a prop with nursing to sleep.  Should I get her naps figured out and then tackle the nursing association? 
She is very mobile and when she wakes she sits up and crawls all around her crib or even pulls up to stand.  I'm not sure how to communicate it's sleeping time when she won't stay still enough to rub her back, which is what helped in the past.  This baby girl changes so fast, it's so hard to keep up with her!

[jessmum46]

If she's used to low A times it will take her some time to adjust, so just go slow, starting from where she was comfortable and giving her 3-4 days to get used to an increase of 10-15 mins before pushing it again.  She will get OT before it settles, you are trying to shift her sleep to the night time rather than the day, but it is short-term pain for longer term gain   Yes I'd be tempted to get the naps sorted first and then see if the nights settle of their own accord - if not you can deal with the nursing then x

[marjorie_kate]

We have made progress with sleeping through the night again!  She has slept 4 nights this week 7-6ish...  If I could only get her to go until 7am, but I'm not pushing my luck!  I have managed to get her to push through 2hrs and 45 min between naps but she is SO tired and if I keep her up longer I'm ending up with an OT baby who won't nap.  Either way her naps are down to 1 hr 15 in the morning and only 40 min in the afternoon.  Yesterday I had to do a third mini nap because she woke from her second nap of only 40 min at 115 and that wasn't going to be manageable all the way until BT.  Our EASY for yesterday was:

615 WU
630 nurse
730 breakfast
845-850 down for nap
1015 WU
1030 nurse
1230 nap- fell asleep in the car
115 WU
230 nurse
330 attempt at nap #3- had to go in and resettle her after 15 min bc she was up talking and standing
345 fell asleep
430 WU and nurse- she was tired and acting hungry although she usually doesn't eat at this time anymore
530 dinner
700 BT

Today-
630 WU and nurse- I have the feeling she was awake earlier, just quiet
850 nap... I seriously could not keep her up longer.  She was asleep in my arms in 1 min after our wind down routine

SO- thank you for the help with increasing her A time!  I still am not sure how I can get her to something more age appropriate with 2 good naps, but I'm working on it!  We will be out of town next week so who knows what will happen then.  I will try to keep her on a schedule, but it's much harder when we are not at home. 
My goal for the next few weeks is to get her A time up to 3 hours between her WU and first and second naps... 

[jessmum46]

Hope the trip is going well    Let us know if we can help any more once you are back x