7 Month old - Need help with Naps!

[Echo232]

Hello

I have a 7.5 month old DS, who has never really been in a napping routine mainly due to having a 3 year old I could not seem to find one that suited trips to nursery etc, AND he was unwell for a while and now i am also having to fit mealtimes in as well as BF, . . . AND he is waking through the night after being settled at one NW per night for about 2 months! 

Our current "Routine"  (dont laugh when you see it!) is . . .

WU - anywhere 6am - 7am
BFast - 7.40am
Pram walk to nursery 8.40am - 9.25am (he used to nap here, but not anymore)
(i sometimes go to groups etc for me and/or baby 10am - 11.15am)
Pram walk to nursery 11.40am - 12.25 ( (he used to nap here, but not anymore)
lunch - 12.40
Afternoon nap - 2/2.30pm ish for about an hour / 1.5 hours
Tea - 5pm
Bed time - 7pm

He will have a morning nap if i am out and about in the pram with him . . . but otherwise not,  I cant seem to spot when he is tired like i could with my first son.

If anyone has any advice on when the naps could be in the day and for how long?  Also he naps on a bouncer and i would like him to nap in his cot . . . . . is it just a case of put him in there and see if he is happy?  Tips on keeping him happy in there? 

I am hoping that by sorting the day time naps the NW will reduce!!

if any one can help that would be great, as i am so tired from the disrupted sleep at a night!

x x

[lolsyb1982]

Hi I have a 7 month old and this is our routine (on an ideal day)

Wu 6
Nap 9.45-11.15
Nap 3-3:45
BT 7

I would imagine he is now UT at those nap times. The average A time is 3/3:5hrs at this age and 2 naps.

[Echo232]

thankyou

I was far more organised with my first child, but cant seem to pin point the tired signs in this DS!!

I think i will give it a go with your routine and see how i get on - hoping it will fix the NW if he gets better daytime sleep.  And maybe when i know he will have naps etc we will then look at doing groups and just adjust when i need to.

Thank you for replying!  :-)

[lolsyb1982]

Yes I dedicated all my time to my DD1's sleep!!

DD2!is pretty low sleep needs so dependant on how your DS is you may need to shorten the A times slightly?
It might help you to look in the EASY board for the sample routines to get an idea of some others.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi and welcome to BW.

As Lauren said it might help to look at Average A time for a 7mo, so between 2hr45-3hr15
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
So with a wake up of 6-7am, your first nap would probably start somewhere between 9-10am

Here's the link to sample routines she mentioned:
chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

I think teaching him independent sleep in his cot would also help.  Does he self settle at night?
There are some good resources to look at on sleep training in the BW books and FAQ Sleep board on this site. Have a look and comeback if you have any questions about sleep training
Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards

[Echo232]

thank you

i have had a look through the links and am going to start in earnest tomrrow to try and get a routine.  My problem i think is that he will nap if i put him in a pram / rock him to sleep but i clearly cant do that all the time .

He does self settle at night . . . . . but up until he was 6 months he always fell asleep on me feeding . . .and so it was when he went in his own room we managed to get him to self settle while semi awake AND not have to be swaddled to go to sleep!! 

Currently we are in a position where he definatley wont self settle for a nap . . . . . not a chance . . . . . .and he will only settle about 70% of the time at night when he goes to sleep . . . . .but will wake up after 2 - 3 hours and then it is hard to get him to get back to sleep and then stay asleep!! 

so my task for today is to look into Shush pat and PU/PD and to see which i prefer. 

Who would have thought it would be so hard with the second  . . . .when the first child was a breeze and seemed to just know that seeing a cot meant he had to go to sleep!!

thankyou

[Scottishmummy]

It's funny how different two siblings can be, isn't it. Sounds like your first was/is an "Angel" baby! I had the opposite my first (DS) was a nap refuser and fighter. I was ready for the same with my 2nd (DD) and it was such a surprise when she started self-settling at 8wks old!

My DS needed movement in buggy,car or rocker chair to nap until I sleep trained him at 6mo.  The things that helped us were:

1) a consistent nap wind down routine- before every nap I would do quieter activities with him, then go into the bedroom, blackout blinds and curtains & low lighting, read a story, play the same short bit of music then settle him into his cot in a lightweight sleeping bag and turn lights off.  At first it felt like it was just for my sake but repetition of the same wind down really helped in the end.

2) I did a combination of an adapted sh-pat & gradual withdrawal. So after WD routine I would cuddle him until calm then put him in the cot and continue to hold him there and sh until he fell asleep (patting and picking up were too stimulating for him and kept him awake longer).
 Once I knew he could sleep in the cot I would cuddle him for shorter and shorter time until I just went straight from WD to into the cot & holding there.
Then I started letting go of him to let him settle himself earlier and earlier so holding until sleepy but not asleep, then after that worked just have a hand on mattress next to him, then just standing by cot, behind cot, by the door, outside door etc.

It took a while but it was worth the effort as he self-settled to sleep ever since, even when we're away from home. It does need time not being interrupted though- Have you got any days when your 3yo is in childcare? Good luck and please come back if you want to chat or just need some support amd encouragement.

[Echo232]

oh my goodness . . . . . . yesterday we had one failed nap attempt (followed by a fall asleep in arms and then put on the bouncer!) and a succesful in the cot afternoon nap as he was already asleep.

Last night we had only one wake up between 8.45pm and 6am!!  WOW!!!  (i started bedtime at 7pm but he takes AGES to have his last BF on a night!!)

and today so far we have had :

6am - wake up
9.45 start new nap routine and he was asleep by 10 . . .and slept for 1 1/4 hours!!
2.20pm - start new nap routine and he was asleep by 2.40pm .  . . .and still asleep 40 minutes later!!
i plan to have a 7pm bedtime on usual nights (however tonight i have slimming world so will be a bit later!)

i did a combo of holding one leg (so he didnt roll over) and patting his other hip area and singing the same lullaby over and over . . . . .and my plan is to have to do this less and less over a week weeks to wean him off!

I know i might be counting my chickens so to speak . . . . but i am amazed at how receptive he is . . .and how much easier something is to do when you have had advice and realise it can be done.

I just wanted to say thankyou . . . . . .you have been a godsend . . . . . thank you for your support  :-) 

I even managed to do the naps today while i had a house full this morning and my 3 year old this afternoon.  I feel on top of the world and it is down to this page  . . .so thankyou
x x

[Scottishmummy]

Your message has made my day! I'm so pleased this has worked for you and so quickly. 10-20 min to settle to sleep is normal so it looks like you're getting naps well timed for him. 
Your routine & plan to gradually reduce the help to fall asleep all sounds great. 
Do come back if you want to chat through anything again.
Xxx

[Echo232]

****UPDATE******

So  . . . .it was all going so well until Daddy got involved . . . .and then it all wet to pot.  combined with a bout of Bronchiolitis and sleep was something that i never thought i would see again!!

but i did learn a lot . . . . i learnt that my boy does not like to be patted / shusshed to sleep.  He is happy to have it done . . . . bu my arm would fall off by how long and hard i had to do it for . . . . .and he would not take any less. 

i learnt that it is best to get into a routine myself first for a while before involving ANYONE else!!

I learnt that while Awake time is a good indicator of how long they should stay awake for . . . . . it is by no means a fit for every child!!

and most of all i learnt that even if i only got a 25 minute nap out of him (his habit for a bout 2 weeks) then he is  not a child that will go back to sleep so 25 mins is better than nothing.  to try and push him to go back to sleep was a waste of time and made the next nap time harder!!

so currently we are on the following kind of schedule:

6 - 7am - wake up
8am breakfast (no milk feed as he has cut out BF until evening)
9.50am - nap for about 1 1/4 hours
sometimes he has a small snack after nap
12.30 lunch
1.15 formula (he only takes about an ounce but i like to try and get some into him!)
        Then nap time (for about 1 1/2 hours
3.15 small snack if he is awake
5.00 tea time
7.00 bedtime
Over night we have 2 wake ups for a feed but we are in the process of getting rid of them as i think it is just a habit


So altogether i have a much better balance with two children . .  just in time for the summer hols to spend the nap times with the 3 year old!!

Thankyou so much for the advice - which gave me the confidence along with the other posts to know what the basics are and what the guidelines are . . . . .to know that each child is different . . . .and most of all that we could get there together!!

Thankyou all!!

[Scottishmummy]

Thank you for the update, it's really good to hear how people are doing.

Sounds like things are going well for you. Come back anytime if you want to chat things through again

Xxx