Need a fresh look on napping 5 months old

[ameliebob]

Nap training??? 5 months old and wondering if we should do nap training and how does it works...

As I'm currently typing babe is asleep next to me. I took her in bed with me for the first time ever after her chronic 40 min nap. It's now been 1.5 hour after that nap and still sleeping.

We follow more of a pattern than schedule. 2-2.15 hours of awake time, feedings every 4 hour with cereals in between. Put down awake in crib with paci, dark room, white noise. Recently cut night feeds without much fussing, it's been only 2 nights without feed, but so far so good.

We tried the Merlin magic sleep suit for almost a week now and naps didn't improved. So I've got a suit size small to sell!!

Where can I start about nap training? I know she can do long naps as she currently is taking one!! And has taken some here and there. Should I be ditching the paci?? What is actually nap training? I'm so confused I need help please!

[Scottishmummy]

Hi there!

Just wondering what exactly you mean by "nap training"? Do you mean teaching her to fall asleep independently for naps? From your post it looks like she's already doing that?

Or do you mean trying to get a longer nap? Her A times are at lower end of average for her age so you could try increasing them slightly.

I am not sure whether her longer nap is due to co-sleeping or whether it might be developmental. Around this age LOs start to transition more easily between sleep cycles, but usually need to be in the same situation they went to sleep in..I.e. If she went to sleep with you in the room then you'd need to stay there the whole nap. Nice for a rest sometimes but not always practical!

If she's self settling I would be cautious about starting co-sleeping now as she might then depend on you for every nap. That said, if she's taking longer naps some days she might be learning to transition between sleep cycles  herself and it may just come with time.

Whether it's teaching independent sleep or extending naps there are lots of resources and support here. Just let us know what you are thinking of & hoping for.

[ameliebob]

In fact, I'm not sure myself what is nap training loll

I dont want to encourage co sleeping at all and I'd like to extend her naps but I'm wondering if the paci might be problem. Sometimes she spits it out after 10 min, other times she still has it in her mouth and wakes up anyway and other times i just replace it and she drifts off again.

 I also try to resettle her after a 40 min nap by ssh patting. If it's been over 20 min I give up. I increased her A time to 2.15 today so we will see if it helps. She wasn't cranky but babbling, giggling  and looking  over excited although she went down within minutes!

[Scottishmummy]

40 mins is one sleep cycle so could be UT, especially if she won't resettle, or could be just difficulty transitioning through to the next cycle.

20 mins to attempt resettle sounds appropriate, I usually got fed up after 10-15!

A time increase sounds like a good call. How long has she done 2hrs? Average at this age is 2-2.5hrs, but they increase quickly between 4-6mo so she could well be ready for a bit longer,
If she's a bit overexcited before her nap, you could try a slightly longer WD with quiet time in her room for a short time before the nap?

I'm not sure about the paci.  Some people see the paci as a comfort item rather than a prop.  Props vs Comfort items. Whats the difference?  Neither of mine would take a paci but both like a comfort blanket (in reality a muslin square) to suck on for naps and nights, so even if you weaned her off it, she might still want something to help her settle to sleep.  The advantage of a comfort blanket is it is bigger than paci and therefore easier for the baby to find and replace themselves!

[ameliebob]

She already has a lovey. We increased the time and she was much better at resettling. Today I put her down without the paci and she fussed and babbled for 10 minutes before falling asleep on her own. Until I saw the video monitor she was sucking her thumb. So let her be after 1st sleep cycle, another 10min thumb sucking and out. same thing after 2nd and she slept a total of 2.15 hour!! 

BUT I know thumbsucking is hard to break (my oldest never took a paci and is a thumbsucker for sleeping) and right now I'm trying to convince myself that's a probably a good thing and she also does it at night... But i'm very confused because my already made my mind that she was a paci baby 

[Scottishmummy]

It's a tough one. I think that a lot of LOs need something to help them self-soothe and if she's going to suck her thumb when you remove the paci, it's hard to stop her..and advantage of that over paci is that she can replace it herself but as you say, it's a harder habit to change.  And as you are probably aware, the SIDS advice is to use a paci until 6mo.

I was a thumb sucker as a child until school age and had very sore skin on my thumb as well as needing dental work because of if it so have discouraged it in my 2, but they suck on blankets instead which dentist has also sad is affecting DS' teeth 

Sounds like A time increase has worked though which is great so is her ability to self settle to sleep and resettle herself between sleep cycles.
 Sorry not sure what to suggest with paci/thumb as we have similar issue with comfort blanket. Will see if anyone else has any thoughts or insights.

[Scottishmummy]

I've asked around and I think general thoughts are that it is good for her to find a way to Self-soothe, and if she needs to do it through sucking on something, then it is your choice what you wish To encourage her to suck on i.e. Thumb vs paci or other comfort item.
HTH

[ameliebob]

I'm so sick of replacing that paci that I'll let her do her own thing

BUT the only decent nap we had was the day I posted (DUH! WHY THE HECK DID I BRAG ABOUT THIS!!  )
now that I know she is able to self soothe I'm wondering how to resettle her to sleep? I tried to let her fuss but ended with loud crying. So I tried the paci but then she screams for me to come back in the room and it ends in the swing with my fingers crossed in hope she falls back asleep

Her cues have all disapeared and I'm asking if it's soon to go more by the clock? Mom's who I'm talking to with babes the same age says they're on 2 naps a day, average time is 2 hours by naps.
Today she fell asleep 5 min in the car and refused her nap so she had like 3.25 hours and now I have to deal with a cranky baby 

I desperatly need help

[Scottishmummy]

Could you post a few days in EASY format and we can see if there's anything you can try. 

Every baby is different, try not to be too influenced by or worried about what other mums and babies are doing.  You will find a routine that's right for your LO.

[ameliebob]

Our easy is VERY messy. Shame on us. She sometimes will fall asleep in the car when I drop my boy at daycare and it messes up all our routine. For the noon nap she will also sometimes resettle to sleep, which also leads to a mess with the schedule. So if she has a short nap, we have to fit in another nap, which is also generally in the car for daycare pickup.

In terms of feeding, she is FF and has reflux that is under control now. we started cereals around 4.5 months and started to offer them at our mealtimes this week. She won't take much at breakfast and lunch maybe because they are too close to her bottles but I'm not worried by that now (If I delay those meals after 2/3 hours upon bottle feed, she's not hungry for her next bottle).

So here's our daily schedule:

6:00/7:00     Bottle upon WU
7:30/8:00     Solids (a baby spoonful or two)
Nap somewhere here...
9:00 to 9:45   Daycare run and nap sometimes here too...
10:30/11:00   Bottle
11:30/12:00   Solids (a baby spoonful or two)
Nap somewhere here...
14:30/15:00   Bottle
15:30/16:00   Daycare pickup and sometimes a nap somewhere here...
17:00             Solids (takes a LOT of spoofuls!)
6:00/7:00       Bottle before Bed- Bedtime is at the latest at 7. Will be at 6 if she doesn't nap on the daycare run.
She STTN without any feeds now!! 

And here is this week tracking (yellow is sleep) :
http://i68.tinypic.com/2vd3155.jpg

[Scottishmummy]

No shame at all! It looks like you have a routine, even if times & nap lengths change. As the 3-2 transition approaches it's normal to have some 2 nap and some 3 nap days.

So...looking for patterns ...

Am I right that if she's up around 6 her first A time is pretty short e.g. 1.5 hrs? This makes me wonder whether this is still night sleep? Can you get her back to sleep at all if she wakes before 7?

If not, I see her first A is usually around 1hr30-45 then a 45 min nap, but 2nd A time is 2.5-3hrs??  The 3hrs looks too long but you seem to be getting a longer nap after the 2.5hrs, even though you have to resettle sometimes. Some babies have A times that increase as the day goes on so this makes sense.

I think I would try to push your first A time to 2hrs and see if she does a longer nap then.
I'd keep the 2nd A time around 2.5hrs.
If one of those naps is short, you probably will still need a short CN late afternoon, as you're doing, to get her to bedtime.

It really looks ok on your chart, even though times change there are patterns there.

How's self settling and resettling going? I noticed CIO on your chart a few times? Have you tried any of the other BW methods to resettle e.g. Sh-pat or PU/PD instead of CIO?

[ameliebob]

First when I write cio it means that I let her fuss/mantra cry. Since she found her thumb I realized that letting her some time to figure it out sometimes works pretty well. If her cry becomes too hard or if she's been fussing for too long I go in

Ok now to address that schedule! Morning wake ups. I always put her paci if she wakes before 7. Or try the swing. But I can't force her to sleep  I'd love to sleep til 7!! Sometimes it works but she often cries til she has her bottle.

First awake time I try to make it to to 2 hours but most days I have to put her down before that otherwise she cries and rubs her eyes. In the morning she always wakes up cooing and happy after 45 min and I'm *sigh* never able to get her back down. She just giggles when she sees me lol

Then I agree with you with the 3 hours. The 5th she fell asleep for about 5 minutes in the car and I tried to put her down TWICE and she refused those naps! That day was hard. I remembered what my son used to be like as a baby! Thanks god she's not half hard as he was 

For self settling she sometimes sucks her thumb to sleep for naps but I can see she struggles a lot with this. She wakes up 5 to 10 min after falling asleep looking for it again and this cycle can go for a long time so she's not rested. I gave up and put her down with the paci again. And if I go in and replace it AS SOON as she cries, I often have the chance to resettle her. But not today. She woke up at 13:15 and refused any other nap, even in the car. So BT was at 5:45 today! But she was still fine and very happy, way overexcited but still fine.

I find it hard to be unpredictable. I can't wait to say "ok it's 1 pm! Nap time folks!!"

[Scottishmummy]

LOL my DD is 9mo & I'm still waiting for that consistent set nap time! We get it sometimes but a few weeks later it all changes again!

Re CIO- no worries just had to ask YK I remember you saying about the self settling with thumb & my DD also fusses to herself v briefly before resettling sometimes (usually at night)

First nap & wu sounds like you're doing all you can & following her cues, which is all you can do. All I can suggest is trying a longer WD so it's v low key low stimulation to extend A time but if that doesn't work it might be that she's just a baby who only does a short first nap. My DS never did a first nap longer than 40 mins ever but would do a long 2nd nap fairly consistently from about 6mo.
6-7 is a pretty normal wu time too, just thought I'd ask if she might do longer for you.

Ah, sounds like the 3hrs was one of those days!

Hope she did a good night. Not sure what to suggest we thumb sucking/paci. As I said before both of mine have had a comfort blanket (DD has a Muslim) which is bigger, easier to find, less likely to fall out. But means washing lots of soggy muslins! Hopefully your DD will get the  hang of it

I know it feels unpredictable but you honestly do have a pretty typical routine - similar A times between naps on most days and a short-long-(short if needed) pattern. And she's learning to self settle and resettle.  At this age this is actually really good.
Xxx

[ameliebob]

I know!! Once you finally managed to get the hang of a what-so-called-schedule, everything changes again!!  And yup, she did a wonderful night! I was expecting nightwakings, but I got none! But she was up for the day at 5:45 (DUH!) but it was PERFECT FOR TODAY as I had to leave the house at 6:15 exceptionnally lol