Night wakings in almost 5 month old

[Tabathagucci]

FPT23 can you give me an example of your easy when you fit a cat nap in?  Somehow we've gotten super off track (probably because I've been letting her nurse/sleep on me when she EW to prevent ODS from waking up but as of today I'm not giving in anymore!  She's been EW (before 6) and I've been nursing back to sleep till 6:45 or so then having A time of 3 hours and getting a 1.5 hour nap with no extension.  But then she's been falling asleep in the car at around the 2 hour mark before I can get her home and messing up the whole day!  Would like to see how your typical day goes with similar A times to ours simce our LO are the same age!  Thanks!

[FPT23]

Hello our EASY is never the same everyday either but more or less as follows (depending on wake up time since he sometimes wakes at

This was yesterday

E 7
A
S 9:45-11:15

E 11:30
A
S 2:00-4:00

E
A
S (BT) 6:30pm -7:00am

These times are when he's eyes closed to eyes open. So I will put down 5-10 mins before those times above. He sleeps independently very well though. I think you your LO has built up OT from all those pushes you gave her. Give her sometime to adjust and hopefully those EW pass! But don't worry about nursing back down at those early hours... It's one of the joys of breastfeeding I feel. I'm guilty of it too and  honestly it's never created a habit or prop to us.

I do CNs when BT would be too early. If the next sleep time falls before 6pm and extending A time to BT would be too long. I also do a CN when my other son has an activity like a sports practice. I would prefer not to do a CN b/c his BT ends up around 8/9pm... And he actually sleeps less at night and still wakes at 7ish am. So the overall night sleep is less and they need more since its restorative. Night sleep is more important than day.

That's why this age and transition is tricky

Those car ride snoozes are the worst but it doesn't necessarily have to mess up the whole day. If she takes a small CN in the car, hey it happens. So just shorten her next A time a bit before the nap. Over all I've noticed the times still fall right around the same routine. Keep in mind, they can't go by the clock just yet either and everyday can be different. This is merely a routine to have some stability.

Hopefully she's better rested soon and those EWs pass quickly!

Hugs

[Tabathagucci]

Thank you!  I was thinking the same about nursing back to sleep but lately when she wakes around 5:45, if I nurse her she sleeps very fitfully on me, won't unlatch and keeps drinking and drinking (which makes her reflux worse) wakes up on and off, fidgets, and can't be put down or given the paci if unlatched.  If she does fall fully asleep she usually wakes if I unlatch her and then freaks out until I put her back on the breast.  Usually she has just nursed 1-2 hours ago so is clearly not hungry but still expects the breast.  I feel like the process has gotten us into this vicious cycle where we don't know when her exact wake up time is (because she wakes up and falls asleep so many times and is sleeping very restlessly) and then she's cranky and falling asleep on our morning pre-nap walk and still tired after a 1h30-45 min nap.  So yesterday I decided no more nursing back to sleep at this hour.  If I can't soothe her back to sleep after 5:45 or so, she's up for the day.  She woke at 5:51 today and wouldn't be settled back to sleep so I opened the blinds, got her up and fed her and she had an early nap (A time still 3 hours). She's been asleep for 1h45m. 

[Tabathagucci]

So with no catnap, he is ok with such little A total A time during the day and sleeps ok at night?  And if you do have a catnap with this general schedule, what is the typical A time between nap 2 and catnap and then between catnap and bed?  I'm getting some icky NW with a 3 hour morning A time and 2 hour A times between nap 1 and 2 (not short on purpose but keeps falling asleep in car at 2 hours) and between nap 2 and 3 (purposely short so bed time won't be too later and and 2.5 hour A time to bed.
Thanks again so much!  It is seriously tricky which is why I tried to push so fast but was obviously too fast!

[Tabathagucci]

And totally understand it is different each day, just asking in general. 😊  I've been tempted to put her on a schedule with naps at set times but I know most babies this age don't do well with that so just going with set A times, which always worked well with ODS and often still does even at almost age 5!

[Tabathagucci]

Put her down at 2h15m for bed and while she woke her usual 40 mins in, she lasted till 3:30, then back to sleep till 640 so looks like I've found what works for now!  However, after a good nights sleep, her A time of 3 hours didn't seem to be enough to keep her asleep as I had to resettle at 35 minutes.  Her second A time of 2h45 doesn't seem to be enough either as I'm getting 35 mins and no extension.  think I will increase second A time to 3 hours and see how that goes for a couple days and then if still getting wake ups from first nap maybe extend 5-10 mins.  Thoughts?

[FPT23]

Hi sorry I've been out.

It would be easier if you could put all your posts together in one. There's several to read

I scanned through it and 35 min naps are generally OT so she wouldn't need a push. She's OT. As I had mentioned before it will take sometime to adjust and no day is the same... 2.15 for A time is on the low side for her age too. There are various links to aid in A times.

Here's average A times so you can refer back to it:

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Again, generally 30/35 min naps are OT. You had just pushed her so much so quickly that she needs time to adjust. Work with one A at a time and it takes a few days Hun. Work with one A time then after a few days of its working, increase her next A IF she's ready for a push.

Again, if ahe starts short napping 40/45 that's UT.. Keep the A time the same to see if for the next few days at the same A time she still is giving UT naps. If so then push. No need to push unless she needs it. Pushing all at once as you did can cause much OT which can lead to short naps and NWS.EWS.

PleaE give it some time. Trial and error.

[Tabathagucci]

Hi sorry for so many posts! Will try to keep it in one post going forward.    For her, if she's OT I've always been able to extend.  35-40 mins and no extension has generally been UT.  I backed off on the A time and was getting no extensions.  I extended today by 10 mins and she woke at 30 mins but resettled easily.  She's a confusing one! 
The 2h15 A time is only after a 25 min cn at the end of the day so her day is not too long.  Since her second nap has been short, I've been giving her a third nap in the stroller after 2 hours and then after the stroller nap she gets tired for bedtime fast so I've been able to put her down after a shorter A time to make sure the day isn't too long.  This was yesterday:
Wake 5:50
A 3h
S 8:50-11:05
A 2h45m
S 1:50-2:25
A 2h10m
S 4:35-5 in stroller
A 2h15m
S 7:15 falling asleep during nursing and went down easy

I had an A time of 2h30m after the CN the day before and she seemed OT when I put her down and had a messy night so the earlier bed time seemed to help!
You are right though I will slow down a bit I always tend to be too reactive!!! 😊

Still curious tho, on days when your LO only has 2 naps and his total A time is around 8 hours he does ok at night?  Mine seems to do best with 9.5-10 hours of A time and a little apprehensive about such low total A time!  Guess I won't know till I try!

[jessmum46]

Hi hun, just popping on with support and a quick couple of suggestions it looks like this thread has been going on a while now and the focus has shifted a little to the 3-2 (isn't it fun?!  ).  I think it might be a good time to start a new thread with a summary of where you are up to, and any particular issues you're facing - that way you're likely to get a fresh perspective which is never a bad thing!!  Particularly if you mention '3-2' in the title other mums going through similar will hopefully chip in The other thing I thought of was the 3-2 support thread - have you joined that yet? Always good for comparing notes.  ((Hugs)) and hang in there, transitions are always bumpy but you'll get through it xx

[Tabathagucci]

Hi!  Thank you!  I did check out the 3-2 support thread a couple times but it wasn't really active so thought I'd continue here since I was getting some good support and answers. 😊  We've had a couple of 2 nap days (3 to be exact) with some 3 nap days thrown in because of a short nap or being out and about (which leads to short car/stroller naps).  One of the 2 nap days went great and the night was great but now she's waking earlier and earlier every night. Last night it was 1:30.   Assume the NW is due to the transition and will hopefully go away once we're fully on two naps!
I can definitely start a new thread. Should I do that on this board or naps or EASY?
Thanks again!!!

[FPT23]

Hello!

As the transition continues, you will continue to get some 3 nap days, and some 2 nap days. Super common. We've had those around here too! I think until they are able to handle a proper A time to push that last CN out of the way, you'll be set! But as I mentioned previously, it takes time to push those A times gradually to avoid A LOT of OT, kwim? That is why we suggest to slowly push A times, to avoid melt downs and can make for a smoother transition.

As far as where to begin a new thread, it's best to find what you feel you would like the most help with as Jessmum said, fresh eyes and more familiarity when you post something more specific such as "help with 3-2 nap transition" etc. what do you feel you need the most help with? Is it the nap transition? Is it her EASY and A times? Is it the NWs? It's best to try to stick with one so we can FULLY be able to help and try and handle it head on! Sometimes it's all connected but it seems your main focus has been naps! maybe you can start a fresh, new, detailed thread in naps- see if it helps!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for ya! Hope I've helped some!

Xo!!

[Tabathagucci]

You've definitely helped thank you!  We have a fair amount of night wakings but I have a feeling it's linked to naps as it doesn't seem to be habitual to will post there.  Thank you!