15mth waking for hours at night

[MrsJ80]

Hi All,

I'm at the end of my tether, I really am. I have a 15mth lg, she breastfeeds to sleep (this is the only feed she has as I want to stop), if this doesn't work then she's rocked to sleep (which I also want to stop). Sometimes she sleeps through the night but the majority of the time she doesn't. Just lately she's been waking in the night and struggles to get back into a deep sleep. I rock her and put her back in her cot but within 10mins she's awake again. This can go on for 3-4hrs until it's morning and I just give up and start the day. I really don't know where to start with making these changes, coping with the night wakings and how much longer I can cope with inconsistent sleep. 

[Scottishmummy]

Hi, that sounds exhausting. Sorry you've not had any replies yet.

Bumping this for you, hopefully someone will be along to help soon.

It sounds like she needs help to learn to fall asleep and resettle herself independently. Have a look at this link, especially link on sleep training (walk in walk out vs gradual withdrawal)
Toddler Specific Sleep Training Advice

[Martini~]

Yes definitelly agree with pp that she needs some settling not skills of you want a STTN at that age. So please read the link and if you have any questions - just put them here, we will try to help.

Re wiwo and gw - I would probably go with GW if she never ever settled by herself. Wiwo is a great think but works better as a reminder on previously-settling kiddos or as a last step of a gw.

[MrsJ80]

Thank you.

Today has been a particular bad day and one that I have spent mainly in tears. At the moment I can't see the wood for the trees and I'm doubting my parenting skills.

I plan to drop the bedtime breastfeed and replace it with a bottle of cows milk instead. I'm not confident in implementing the gradual withdrawal process as the only way she's willing to be settled is to be picked up, it's full on meltdown otherwise. I'm still rocking her to sleep but I'm trying to slow down the rocks every few days until we're at a stage where she will fall asleep with me standing still. Maybe then I will feel more confident and ready to try the gw.

[Martini~]

Oh no Hun, you cannot be in tears! This is the when you already should really enjoy being a mum and have many have moments with your toddler. Really settling skills are no indicator if you are a good mother or not - btw what is a good mother:)))? Probably the one who loves her babies and tries to care for them the most, which you are for sure doing. Sometimes when you are sleep deprived and the baby/toddler is OT it can be difficult, so don't blame yourself for these rare moments when you are tired and think about "not coping", "don't want to have a baby" and so on.

Re settling skills - you have a very strong prop right now which is rocking. I know it's very difficult at that age to change it as the habit is strong and the toddler will protest no mater how gentle sleep training method you will choose but really, it's worth for it for both of you. At 15mo they are more then ready for independent settling in a crib, their sleep is much better and calmer. Usually it needs 1-2 days to get through the most difficult stage and than it takes 1-3 weeks of mild gentle consequent steps to establish new habits and routine. So her screaming is probably something understandable but if you get through it, you will be quickly on the other side of the tunnel.

Of course don't start if you don't want, as starting and letting her cry in her crib (even if with you around) will be a short stage only if you preserve - if you get back to rocking after let say 45min attempts of settling in crib, the pattern will be the same next time and over and over. So definitely wait until you are ready, but if you feel you have no strength and you are very tired - think of it. It may help you both to sleep better. And we are always here to support:). Hugs Hon and come to us whenever you need!

[MrsJ80]

Thank you Martini.

I feel such a failure today already. She has refused to nap this morning, even though when I took her upstairs she could hardly keep her eyes open. She didn't want to be held, she didn't want to be put down. I put her in her cot and she was crying, then wanting to play. Every time I told her to lay down she did but then had a massive tantrum about it.

She did actually sleep through last night, from 9:30pm to 6:00am but I feel no better for getting a full nights sleep. I've had a stinking cold for 3 weeks that shows no sign of shifting, hubby and lg have had it too. Gosh I sound like a whinger don't I?!

Hubby has took her out for a walk to give me a break and try and get her to sleep.

I agree with you, at 15mths I feel she is definitely ready to be sleep trained. She understands so much more than I sometimes give her credit for. I do love being a mum and we have so much fun together but then I have the underlying anxiety that it's nap time soon or bedtime soon and if it's going to be a battle or not. (And I know that doesn't help either as she may pick up on that).

I'm confused about what to do for bedtime routine when I stop the breastfeeding. She has a bath every night at 7pm, she's not really interested in books, she just wants to turn the pages and then gets frustrated. I've been using white noise but that doesn't seem to make a difference and she doesn't seem interested in having a comforter even though I've tried for the last 4 weeks. So I suppose the first steps are to do a bit of research on what else we could do in the bedtime routine to get her calm enough for me to put her in her cot and then start the withdrawal process.

Thank you, I feel a bit better already  x

[Martini~]

Hmmm we don't have anything specific and DS is touchy/spirited. At 6:30 there is cow's milk (not in a bottle as from 12/18mo you should aim for something like a beaker:). He drinks or not. Then we may read a book or not. Potty. Bath until 6:55. Potty again. 30sek lullaby and just put to sleep. From 6pm we try not to watch tv and do rather calming activities rather than stimulating.

So in the end - it's rather short:).

[MrsJ80]

I'm going to do some research this week and discuss with hubby then start putting things into action on Friday so hubby is home at the weekend if I need to catch up on sleep. X

[Martini~]

Keeping fingers crossed Honey but remember that in general any routine will be good but it has to be consistent. During sleep training stick to what have you chosen and your DD will learn it. And unfortunately... Usually good routine won't solve independent sleeping skills...

Keeping fingers crossed for your further decisions!

[MrsJ80]

This is the thing, she can sleep through the night. Since she's turned 1yr old she's slept through the night more time than ever. From 4mths - 12mths she was waking between 2-4 times a night, so she's figured something out herself somewhere along the way! :-D

Is there any information on independent sleep? I've had a quick look through the links and can't see anything. Thanks x

[Martini~]

About independent sleep as such I don't think so - but in FAQ you will find many ways how to achieve it. Re STTN - in general sleeping from 9:30 till 6:00 am it's a very short night. So at 12mo+ it's possible that she is sleeping such long stretches as her night sleep cycles lengthen but if you would like to achieve a restorative night for her it should be around 10-12h night for her at least.

[MrsJ80]

I'm going to do some reading and see what approach I want to take. The times when she has slept through the majority of the time it is 10-11hrs. If I can be in bed for a max 7hrs I count it as sleeping through! Haha!   

Last night was no better, she was up at 11:45pm. Hubby couldn't settle her, it took me until 1am. Then she woke at 5:10am. Hubby managed to get her back down until 6:10am. Her nap this morning was only 40mins so there's definitely something going on with her as she normally naps from 1hr 40mins to 2hrs. 

[MrsJ80]

So I have an update!

I decided to start gentle sleep training on Monday. We fed and when I thought she was calm I put her in her cot and sat in the rocking chair. She started to roll around and play so I let her. When she started to sit or stand I said "Penelope, lay down, close your eyes, night night". She did....but then would play again. I kept repeating it, eventually she started to cry because she was getting overtired. She wanted to be picked up, so I picked her up, when she was calm I put her back down. This went on for a while until she was in a bit of a state so I just stood and held her until she went to sleep. I was in her room for 1hr 20mins. She finally went to sleep at 9:20pm and slept through until 6:30am. I am counting this as an improvement as she wasn't fed or rocked to sleep.

Tuesday night was pretty much the same. I was in her room for 1hr 40mins. There was less crying and she fell asleep on her own, while I was sitting in the chair. I had a coughing fit as I was about to leave her room and she woke up, crying, wouldn't settle so again I just held her until she was asleep. She woke at 2:45am, so I went in, she wanted to be held, so I held her and she went back to sleep. I was back in bed by 3:10am and she slept until 6:40am when hubby woke her with a coughing fit (damn these colds!).

Last night was a bit of a cheat. We went to my mums for dinner and she fell asleep on the way home. When we get home I changed her into her pyjamas and put her to bed still asleep. She was in bed by 7pm. She woke at 2:45am so I fed her as she hadn't had her bedtime milk. I held her until she was nearly asleep and put her back in her cot. She went to sleep. I was back in bed by 4am. She woke at 5:10am, I went into her room and as soon as she saw me she just laid back down. I left the room and she cried so I sat in the rocking chair until she was asleep again and she slept until 7:10am.

Things are definitely improving! We've still got some work to do on the bedtime routine and I'm always with her when she gets upset but she soon calms down if I talk to her quietly and repeat that's it's bedtime, night night etc. So I'm going to keep doing this and see how we get on. When I feel that it's better still, I will start to move the chair away and see how we go. 

[MrsJ80]

Ok, so tonight hasn't gone well at all.

I have stopped breastfeeding and this is the first night with no feed. I just can't get her wound down enough to go to sleep. We had bath, book, cows milk and she that was a struggle. She was getting frustrated because she wanted to lay down in my arms to drink her milk but the milk wouldn't flow from the bottle properly and she got frustrated. When she did find a position she was comfortable in the milk ran out. By the time I'd got some more the moment was lost. Hubby took over from me and he said "she knows what she needs to do but she's just having trouble dropping off to sleep". She'll lay down and close her eyes but to me she seems to alert. I seem to make matters worse as I think my presence simulates her more.

Does anyone have any ideas? X