in need of a hand with a routine plan for 9mo. 2-1? eeek!

[labrodyk]

3hrs is okay but she continues to short nap and is very miserable in the morning which means, early nap and early bedtime. I don't know when she wakes exactly and it's making things super difficult at bedtime because she's so overtired so she isn't eating dinner well, cries in bath and is hysterical during nappy and dressing.

It's also difficult routine wise with my older son who I can't synchronize with, with everything so early. She just seems really tired and could benefit from a big long nap but I can't get awake time right! Especially since I have no idea what time she actually wakes. I thought after 3hrs she'd be having a good 1hr20+ nap but our days are mostly 2x 30-40 minutes maybe an hour or 70 minutes.

Today was 4hrs because we were out but she was so WIIIIIDE awake it was insane. I don't like her crying at naps and bedtime...

[Scottishmummy]

I think you've said before that she likes a short morning A time before first nap. That makes it hard to push it out any later. So..could she need the morning nap shortened to get a longer 2nd nap?

But I know that makes kindy days tricky.  How many days of the week does your DS have kindy and would your DD do a long 2nd nap (over pick up) if you started it in the car/buggy and had a walk/drive before pick up. Not so good for you but could work if kindy isn't every day. 

[labrodyk]

I thought she liked a short morning A but nothing has ever been consistent so who knows.  I was doing well with pushing her a bit later in the morning but that changed when she started teething and then she'd fall asleep as soon as we'd hit the car on kindy days, even if it had only been a few hours A.
Today was two short 40-60 minute naps and crying for 5 minutes at BT before falling asleep. A's were roughly 3h.

WU: 7-7.30??
Nap 1: 10.15 asleep 10.27-11.27
Nap 2: 2.10; asleep 2.25-3.08
BT: 6.25; 6.35 after crying for 5 minutes.

Unfortunately she's never napped longer than 40 minutes (usually only 20-30) in the car or pram so couldn't offer a longer nap in there. She wakes if I stop and wakes if I keep driving so I can't win. Really hoping these damn teeth cut soon, they've been teasing for weeks, up and down and up and down) must be so miserable.

Today was just as crazy...really thought we'd get a good morning nap but alas, no...
WU: 6.40 awake. Lay in cot until after 7.00
Nap 1: 10.07; asleep ? -10.53. Dozing on/off before falling asleep 11.11-11.18! OOB at 11.30
Nap 2: 2.30; asleep 2.35-4.05
BT: 7.10; 7.40 asleep
^ screamed going into bed and for a good 5+ minutes then seemed to find settling difficult before falling asleep.

[Scottishmummy]

Looks like her naps are getting shorter..and then making her OT by BT?

Do you think it's worth trying more A time (although she might need her usual /shorter A time to catch up on sleep first!)...maybe try the day after you next get a good nap day?

[labrodyk]

I wondered if her BT last night was UT given it was such a better nap than her others the last few weeks?!

I'm doing 3hrs A from the time she wakes not the time she's out of bed but that's also the same A for after a short nap versus a long one (like last night).

How much and what do you recommend for an A push and how would that affect my overal EASY? I've always had such difficulty with the routine and maintaining bedtime (I'd really prefer into bed no later than 7.30) after I've pushed out A's as the day starts to run away with us...

[labrodyk]

Today was different again but we got a good 2hr+ nap! What would you consider that morning A A's and should I stick to it again tomorrow? What would you count that first A from if I don't know when she wakes? Interesting to see after 3hrs the time to fall asleep was more...perhaps a little UT? Does second A need to be up closer to 3.5hrs? Do I then need to wake her from second nap for a reasonable BT, if so, how long do I give her and attempt PD?

WU: 6.34 already awake not sure how long for?
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.02; asleep 10.09 - 12.20ish (woke around 10.50 but managed to fall back asleep after about 10/15 minutes. got her up when drifting between cycles)
Nap 2: 3.24; asleep 3.36-4.08. Got her up before she drifted off again.
BT: 7.05; 7.43 asleep!
^^ she lay quietly, should j continue to do this A or should she be going down earlier or later? She was quite yawny and eye rubbing from 6...

[Scottishmummy]

Hooray for a 2hr nap.  What did you do for 2nd nap?  If it were me I would have woken her by 4pm-ish probably for a 7pm BT.

Hi!
As you say it's really hard to judge A time when you're not sure of Wu but looking back at the last week, her first nap seems to fall around 10am usually, regardless of wake time.  Would it make it easier to just shoot for that as a set first nap time (& accept it might be earlier on kindy days?)

Then do A time for next nap...around 3hrs if first nap is short (under an hour), 3.5 hrs if it's longer than an hour?

I tend to cap a late afternoon nap (anything starting after 3pm) at no more than one sleep cycle- is that 40 mins for your DD? And less than that if it starts later in the afternoon.

Then from your recent days it looks like she has around 3.5hrs after end of 2nd nap until she falls asleep for BT.

Does that sound like a routine that might suit her/something to aim for?

[labrodyk]

I just modified my post! We did basically what you suggested but she took the full 1/2 hour to fall asleep at bedtime...do you think that's ok?

1) should I wake from a good morning nap?
2) I'll try 3.5A but that could leave me with a really short nap for the second?
3) how short and how late do I let that go?

and yes, DD's sleep cycle is 40 minutes so I tend to watch on the monitor for when she's stirring and attempting to transition and then open the door, make some noise etc.

It sounds like a good plan, thank you.

[Scottishmummy]

Ha ha, great minds think alike 

I think when we discussed 2-1 you said you'd prefer the long am/short pm option? In which case let her sleep as long as she wants for her morning nap.

If you get s good am nap, a short 2nd nap is ok..you might find you get shorter to BT if you cut shorter than one sleep cycle though. How short is a bit of trial and error. It looks like 30 mins around 3.30 is ok for BT. If nap starts after 4 though I might cut to only 20 mins, maybe only 15 if after 4.30 to still keep a 7-7.30 BT.

It looks like with BT tonight it was 3.5hr A roughly from end of nap2 to falling asleep at night..so as my plan above! You could try aiming for 7.30 BT and put her down slightly later?

Good luck for tomorrow, hope the plan works out!

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much! Your timings are really helping me get Miss Audrey the sleep she needs.  Hubby was home this week so I was able to leave her to sleep (if she didn't wake). We had a NW last night and she's been a bit restless today during naps, not solid sleeping and waking/stirring frequently. I think another tooth might be cutting. It's also hard to keep her awake in the morning and through that second A. Bedtime she appears like she can power through for hours although we know better. She does however have this crazy meltdown after her bath! Once she's dressed and had her bottle she seems totally fine!

Thursday 11/8
Nap 1: 9.40-10.15 (car on way home from kindy)
Nap 2: 1.15-3.15 (woke at transitions but fell back to sleep)
BT: 6.50: 7.00 asleep
^^ absolute meltdown in the bath/pj routine.
NW: 3.50. Found her at the other end of the cot sitting up crying. Cold? Teeth? Took a while to fall back asleep and was awake at 7.00 when I woke

Friday 12/8
WU: 7.00 or earlier.
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.00-11.20, dozed until 11.40
Nap 2: 2.40; ? 2.50? - 3.20; 3.23-3.26; 3.28; 3.29; 3.31-3.32; fell back asleep solidly until I woke her at 4.
^^ crying uncontrollably after bath and getting dressed! So weird. 
BT: 7.20; 7.40 asleep.


Our BT routine is usually dinner around 5 followed by a play. Bath/shower, pj's followed by a bottle in the lounge room. Then more books and play with big brother (up to 30 minutes depending how we're going with time). I watch for tired signs and Then just before bed we'll go and brush teeth, into sleeping bag, heater and white noise on, cuddles whilst I rock and sing lullaby briefly then put into bed awake. Do you think this is ok? She sucks her thumb.

[Johnnyha65]

Your afternoon sounds very similar to ours, M fought his morning nap at 10am but slept for an hr then this afternoon after 3.5hr A he woke after 30 minutes was unsettled for about 15 mins after a cuddle and put down and then slept solidly until I woke him at 4pm. He wanted to go to bed at normal time but I pushed him out 15 minutes longer so only 3hr15 A to sleep! I wonder if it is all teeth related, he has his bottom 2 they came through about 6 weeks ago and one top tooth has fully cut through but I guess the 2nd one isn't far behind. I've just posted on the 2-1 thread, he seems pretty whiney and clingy after about 1 hr A I cannot go anywhere without him calling me and climbing up my legs but when I pick him up he's wriggling to get down.

[labrodyk]

he seems pretty whiney and clingy after about 1 hr A I cannot go anywhere without him calling me and climbing up my legs but when I pick him up he's wriggling to get down.

Yes, yes and more yes!!! It stopped for a week and then just started here again which coiincides with the second upper front tooth cutting.

Today has been a bit frustrating because we have my husband's 30th birthday party today so I was hoping for a nice long sleep before midday...I got a lousy 40-60 minutes if I was lucky!!

WU: 6.25 I heard her
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: I kept her up until 10am which was ridiculously hard work (as per above) and she barely slept an hour... 10:00 into bed asleep shortly after and struggling to stay asleep from 11.00, completely awake from 11.15.
Nap 2: I'll be SO busy so hopefully this doesn't fall too late but she'll be super OS

I couldn't get her to calm down for the second nap, I had to feed her in her room and when I went to put her down at 2.20 she was practically asleep. She slept 2 hours I think, I checked the monitor at 4 and she was asleep.
Will aim for 7.30 BT to be asleep by 8.00.

[Scottishmummy]

Some days at just like that, especially with parties etc. Hope everyone had a good time & you get a good night.

Your bedtime routine is very similar to ours, including the crying at bathtime for no clear reason. I think they are sometimes just a bit tired at the end of the day.

[labrodyk]

She slept okay but why wake so early? 
BT: 7.50; 8.10 asleep
WU: 6.20 when I checked so could have been earlier.
OOB: 7.15 cause I fell back asleep but Audrey just lay there sucking her thumb.

It's very difficult to keep her awake and happy int the morning until 10  
I did it this morning but she fell asleep when i picked her up to move from change table to bed! Was really restless after the first 40 minutes but finally fell back to sleep after about 30+ minutes.
Nap 1: 10.00-12.00 with a big restless period from 10.40-11.20.
Nap 2: 2.15 in the car but wouldn't fall asleep. 3.40 into bed. I went outside to garden so not sure if she actually fell asleep but DH got her up at 4.20 and she was already awake! ... I'm hoping she actually slept.
BT: aiming to PD at 7.30?

[Scottishmummy]

Maybe the EW was from a longer afternoon nap than normal the day before?

And maybe she was more tired this morning because of EW?

Looks like she might be getting into the phase of the 2-1 where a long morning nap makes it harder to get the pm nap? Or she needs more A time & only a a short (30min?) CN if she does a long am nap? I think we talked about trying 3.5hrs after a long am nap?

Sounds like the day before was busy with the party so out of routine so maybe give a few more days trying again with timings we talked about to see if she gets back on track with sleep. So...

Nap 1- set at 10
A- 3hrs if nap 1 less than 1 hr
    3.5hrs if long am nap
Nap 2- if long am- 30-40mins only (up by 4)
          If short am- as long as she will sleep but up by 4
BT- between 7-7.30

I was wondering whether you'd like to join the 2-1 chat thread? A good place to post your days and get more eyes on your routine as there are a few of us on that thread at the moment
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27