What to expect from my first attempt at nap training?

[fifine]

I'm planning on starting my 4mo taking naps in her crib using pat shush and pu/pd and worried it's going to descend into chaos. Can anyone give me their experiences of the first time they tried?

Apologies for the very long post ahead! I want to give as much info as possible to see if anyone can come to my aid..

She's a very alert baby and we have AP'd so hard that now she can only fall asleep during the day when I walk her around in the baby carrier with her face covered so she can't see. I do get her as soon as she shows tiredness so it's a quick process, but I have to sit in silence with her throughout her nap which I can't keep doing. She is also a light sleeper so usually wakes after 45-60mins. Some afternoons she falls asleep at the breast. We try to tank her up with a bottle of BM as she is a slow eater and snacks.

The usual day:
0645 Wake
0700 Eat
0745 A
0900 S
1000 E
1020 A
1130 S
1230 E
1300 A
1330 S
1430 E
1515 A
1600 fall sleep at breast
1630 A
1730 E (cluster feeding)
1800 Wind down: bath, bottle, swaddle (love2swaddleUP), sit hold and sing, put to bed
1900 Sleep
0200 (give or take 1 hour) wakes for a feed

* I have been trying to put her on the 4hr schedule which worked for about 2 days, but as her naps are so bad I guess we can't achieve it just yet.

Until 2 weeks ago we fed her to sleep at 7pm and 1 night-feed though she sometimes slept through til 6am. But when the sleep regression hit she started waking around 2am and staying wide awake for hours. Then she woke up every couple of hours. I started pu/pd at night which has really helped.

Some points:

- Nights are still not great: She still sometimes is wide awake after 1/2/3am feed and I can't get her sleepy again. She then gets overtired an hour or 2 later and I have to pu/pd until she passes out.
- I sometimes feel she is just crying herself to sleep rather than pu/pd helping her to self-soothe.. as sometimes she screams her head off during pu/pd then suddenly falls fast asleep.
- I have managed to just pat-shush her to sleep but this is less often. Also this means she isn't self-settling, however I don't know what else to do because she flaps from her back to her side rhythmically as she tries to sleep, despite being swaddled. She can also bang her legs down repeatedly in the bed. This just wakes her up so I have to hold her down on her side and pat shush her to sleep.

To try and transition this last week:
- I sing the same song before each sleep either day or night (except 2am feed as I don't want to simulate her)
- I pat/shush her to sleep in the babycarrier for day naps.

I'm worried that my first attempt at training her naps will be a disaster. Firstly as she has never napped in her cot before, and secondly because I think I don't have pu/pd and pat/shush down right. I imagine the first attempt will be 2 hours of hysteria and backbreaking pu/pds before its time for feed and activity time.

Should I stick to the appropriate EASY schedule even if she screams all through her allotted nap time?

If you've read this far, thanks so much and I appreciate any advice!

[Scottishmummy]

Hi

How's the nap training going?

I, like you, did ST at bedtime and night time first when DS was going through the 4mo sleep regression.  Having done it for nights, naps actually took less time than I thought..but I think we started a little later with naps, maybe closed to 5mo.

If you're LO is settling to sleep with PU/PD, you're doing it right 

I would try with just one nap a day at first. That gives the others to compensate if one is tricky.
With both of mine, I had a sense of whether they were starting to settle or not after 15-20mins. If they looked like they were going to settle, I'd continue until they did. If they looked like they were just getting more & more worked up, I would AP that nap and try again another time/day. That gives your LO the sleep they need and saves your sanity!

Good luck xxx

PS- your A times seem to get shorter s d shorter as the day goes on? That might be due to the short naps but will keep giving you short naps. Might also be contributing to the long wide awake NWs. I might try keeping her up a little longer before those later naps if you can.

[fifine]

Thanks so much for your response ScottishMummy! I really appreciate the advice

Similarly the naps went surprisingly well.. however all no longer than 45mins

1. AP- held during sleep
2. 20mins pupd to sleep in cot
3. 10mins pupd to sleep in cot
4. AP - nurse to sleep, 20min catnap

We are basically still on 3hr schedule due to the super short naps and her unwillingness to eat a full meal!

I do need some extra advice: She passed out completely at the breast at bedtime (she was super tired and I took her to bed early). I tried to gently wake her by putting her upright, burping & talking softly, but she was deep asleep.
Should I have woken her up properly?

[Scottishmummy]

I do need some extra advice: She passed out completely at the breast at bedtime (she was super tired and I took her to bed early). I tried to gently wake her by putting her upright, burping & talking softly, but she was deep asleep.
Should I have woken her up properly?

Sometimes they're so tired it's just not possible! If I know DD is super tired and we're doing EBT, I try to feed her in a light bright room instead of her bedroom to try to keep her from going to sleep on the breast, but sometimes she's so tired even that doesn't work.  I hope it doesn't cause too much disruption to your night.

Naps: That looks like great progress and good that PU/PD is working.  The 45min nap could be developmental (short naps are pretty common still at this age), or needing to get used to SS  to transition to next sleep cycle, or ould be UT if her A times are still on the short side.

So..for now keep going with the ST & keep trying to gradually move towards the 4hr schedule- even just for naps as she may need A times closer to 2hrs. The advice for BF now is to feed on demand & many BF babies aren't ready for 4hr feeds at 4mo. It makes it a bit of a juggle with short naps. I had to try top up feeds when my DD was ready for 2hr A times but only could go 3hrs between BFs.

The other thing to try is going in to her just before the 45 mins and trying one of the w2s options. I used to do the lowest key one of just holding to try to stop her waking and transition into the next sleep cycle.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

Don't worry if you have to continue to AP that last CN. Lots of people do.   It's only a short one and hopefully she'll drop it soon if you get longer A times /naps but an important one to get to BT without getting OT.

Hope that helps. Sounds like it's going well so far. Feel free to come back to chat through her routine or ST again if you want to.

[Scottishmummy]

I've just seen your post on the GS board. It sounds like things have changed for you since your last post on this thread. I've not had much personal experience using PU/PD. I hope someone I GS can help with the approach.

It can get confusing to have similar threads on different boards. Would you prefer to continue here or on general sleep thread?

Fingers crossed for better sleep for you & your DD