Author Topic: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)  (Read 5153 times)

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Offline Meggyfunk

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4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« on: July 27, 2016, 19:33:58 pm »
First time mom here, learning the ropes!

Our son first started sleeping through the night (from about 10pm - 7am) at two months. We played with trying for earlier bedtimes and 10pm was just his magical number. We counted our blessings and went with it (because before that, it was 11pm...and before that...well, you can probably imagine). A few weeks ago we thought he was hitting a growth spurt and kindly obliged his middle of the night feedings (every 2 hours), thinking that in a few nights things would go back to normal. When his daytime routine got all whacky, I took to Google and realized this very well may be the 4 month sleep regression welcoming us to the club a little bit early.

The EASY forum helped me get his daytime  routine back on track. We dropped his last (4th) nap of the day and bedtime is now 8:30pm. After this time, all bets are off. He's waking anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 hour after we put him down most nights and then on average every 3 hours or so after. I'm completely fine nursing him if he's hungry and not complaining about this. He falls asleep again easily and I'm in and out within 20 minutes max. What makes me second guess myself is that our pediatrician basically told me that I have "sucker" written across my forehead and that based upon his nutrition, weight gain and ability to sleep through the night, it is perfectly acceptable and recommended to cut the habit and let him CIO. We tried CIO as directed by his pediatrician and it was AWFUL. I couldn't deal and nursed him after 20 minutes of listening to him scream bloody murder (and going in to reassure him a few times). I don't think I was ready, or had done enough research to know how to handle CIO.

So, in your opinions and from your experience, am I catering to a habit that will truly only be tougher to break the longer I wait? Or, is there light at the end of the regression tunnel where one day I will just wake up and it will be morning again, like he's done after growth spurts in the past?

Side notes:

- I don't nurse him to sleep during the day for naps, we follow EASY and he goes down 2 hours after nursing.
- He's not always asleep when I lay him back down after nursing him in the middle of the night and he settles himself back to sleep when that is the case.

Thanks for helping out a fellow mama!  :-*


Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 14:51:33 pm »
Monday after bedtime he was up at 9pm, 1am, 5:45am
Tuesday: 10pm, 3am, 6:45am
Wednesday: 9:30pm (shhhh pat), 10pm (feed), 1am (feed), 4am (feed), 5:50am (screw this, sent daddy!)

His EASY yesterday (Wednesday) was:

6:45am - Wake up (instead of going back to sleep until 7:30, we decided to just start the day)
7:00 Breastfeed
7:30 - 8:30 Activity
8:30 - 11:00 Sleep

11:10 Breastfeed
11:30 - 1:10 Activity
1:20 - 2:15 Sleep

2:30 Breastfeed
2:45 - 4:15 Activity
4:20 - 6:40 Sleep

6:45 Breastfeed
7:00 Activity
7:30 Solids (just starting to introduce per pediatrician, 1 tbsp rice cereal mixed with 3 tbsp breastmilk)
8:00 Bath
8:30 Bedtime

Nightly wakings -
9:30pm Shhh and rub back, right back to sleep
10:00pm Breastfeed
1:00am Breastfeed
4:00am Breastfeed
5:50am Sent daddy to settle to sleep

8:30 wake up for the day (we overslept 1 hour)  :-\

Offline ginger428

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2016, 06:24:40 am »
Meggy... same thing happened to me and it was traumatizing. As you probably know, BW doesn't support CIO and when I wish I had found the forum sooner to help find and receive support on gentler sleep training.  Emphasis on the support because the books are great until your LO doesn't do anything it says or nothing it says to do is working.

As for your situation, you've already tackled half the battle with not nursing to sleep for naps, dropping to 3 naps, and following a great EASY routine.

Below are links to help you choose a method you feel comfortable with to help LO learn how to sleep independently. Whatever the method, be absolutely consistent for several days. There tends to be a sleep training regression on the 3rd and 5th day, so anticipating it can help.  Gentle sleep training doesn't mean there aren't tears, (except no tear methods) but it does mean that you are 100% present to help support baby. And if you and your partner aren't prepared quite yet, many people wait until 6 months to do a formal start.

When can I stop feeding at night?

Shush-pat - How to

And this is what I started with and modified to wean night feedings and promote IS... here is the link but the basic outline of the steps is further down the page so I copied and pasted that for you here:
Gentle Removal Plan

Pantley's Gentle Removal Plan looks something like this (this example shows a bf baby, but the plan is the same whether baby is bf, using a bottle or paci)

baby is awake and nursing vigorously
baby's eyes close and his sucking rate slows
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots (moving his mouth open towards you)
try holding the chin, but he'll have none of that!
you put him back to the breast
count: 1thousand, 2thousand,... ten thousand*
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots
you try stalling, but no dice
you put him back to the breast
count :1thousand, 2 thousand,... ten thousand
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots
you put him back to the breast
count: one thousand, tow thousand,... ten thousand
you gently remove your nipple
baby moves a little, and you gently hold his mouth closed (betsy says- my baby won't let me do this, so i place her on my shoulder and rub her back)
baby doesn't resist, he is nearly out
you place baby in bed
he goes to sleep

* the counting is really more for you, to give you a gauge to measure your time and a way to keep yourself calm during your repeated attempts. you can be flexible as you figure out what time spacing works best for you and your baby

REPEAT THIS PROCESS EVERY NIGHT UNTIL BABY LEARNS SHE CAN FALL ASLEEP W/OUT THE PROP. IF YOUR BABY IS A "GOOD NAPPER" YOU CAN USE THE TECHNIQUE FOR NAP TIMES TOO.

IF NOT A GOOD NAPPER, DON'T TROUBLE YOURSELF W/ TRYING TOO HARD TO USE THE REMOVAL TECHNIQUE DURING THE DAY. REMEMBER THAT GOOD NAPS MEAN BETTER NIGHTTIME SLEEP- AND BETTER NIGHTTIME SLEEP MEANS BETTER NAPS. IT'S A CIRCLE. ONCE YOU GET YOUR BABY SLEEPING BETTER AT NIGHT, YOU CAN THEN WORK ON THE NAP TIME SLEEP- ALTHOUGH ONCE YOU SOLVE THE NIGHTTIME ASSOCIATION, THE NAP TIME SLEEP MAY RESOLVE ITSELF.

THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME TO USE THE PANTLEY'S GENTLE REMOVAL PLAN IS THE FIRST FALLING ASLEEP OF THE NIGHT. OFTEN THE WAY YOUR BABY FALLS ASLEEP WILL AFFECT THE REST OF HIS AWAKENINGS FOR THE NIGHT. I SUSPECT THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE SLEEP-ASSOCIATION AFFECT... IT SEEMS THAT THE WAY IN WHICH YOUR BABY FALLS ASLEEP FOR THE NIGHT IS HOW HE EXPECTS TO REMAIN ALL NIGHT LONG.

BECAUSE WE WANT NO CRYING, THIS IS NOT A 1-DAY SOLUTION. BUT WITHIN 10 DAYS AS YOU GENTLY BREAK THIS STRONG SLEEP ASSOCIATION, YOU SHOULD SEE A MAJOR REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF YOUR BABY'S NIGHT WAKINGS...."
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 08:40:51 am by ginger413 »

Offline ginger428

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 06:27:15 am »
Regarding the rice cereal, it is completely up to you and the pediatrician to decide, but if you're at all hesitant about starting solids at 4 mo for the sake of sleep let us know.  Sometimes solids that young can upset their tummys and disturb sleep. Have you noticed any difference with sleep or mood/gas, etc... after starting the cereal?

Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 02:28:13 am »
Thank you soooooooo very much for reaching out! I could hug you. And, I will definitely be digging into the links you provided tomorrow.

Offline ginger428

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 08:47:33 am »
I'm a ftm too so I'm so happy to lend any support and get any right back. Haha.

Give an update when you can. {{{{hugs}}}}

P.S. If you google search 'baby whisperer forum 4 month regression' or maybe 'baby whisperer forum 4 mo sleep training' you might get some great theeads from the past. Just don't forget to include baby whisperer forum in the search bar.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 08:49:40 am by ginger413 »

Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 14:38:48 pm »
Good morning, from Florida!

Thank you so much for these helpful links. And, what a great idea to google by including the baby whisperer forum to help get me straight to what I am searching for. I will admit, I have not read Tracy's book; I was familiar with the EASY principle and found this forum out of what felt like sheer desperation one night. From everything I've seen, her principles will be (and have already been) a really good fit for our newly expanded little family. So...I placed the Amazon order this morning! Based on everything I have read, my mommy instincts and what the ped shared with us...I'm pretty confident that our little guy is nursing for comfort and think we are ready for a gentle sleep training approach. The changes we have implemented over the last three to four weeks have included:

- Age appropriate easy routine that spreads his daytime feedings a bit further apart
- Earlier bedtime
- Introducing solids before bath/bed
- Infant Tylenol at bedtime (recommended by ped for signs of teething)

 He was logging 8-10 hours prior to his regression; with his daytime feedings further apart and an earlier bedtime, I'm thinking one nighttime feeding may still be appropriate for him  ??? And, I really like the idea of the gentle removal plan!

Regarding solids, we went into introducing them with no expectations at all. Our ped nixed the idea of adding rice cereal to his bottle at an earlier check-up (friends/family recommended and I didn't have a clue what I was even asking - Mom of the year award!). At his last visit, they brought up the idea of introducing solids if we would like and also let us know that it is very unlikely this introduction will help with his sleep. They gave us some guidance on signs of him not being ready and so far, I can honestly say it's been a great experience with no sign of tummy  troubles. After his bath and before bedtime, I have started nursing him again because the small amount of solids aren't enough to fill his tummy. He's taking 4-5 oz before bed (tested with expressed bottle to gauge amount) which is a full feeding for him.

The last few nights he has been waking like clockwork at 12am and 3:30am. Around 7:30am he is now waking on his own and if we get him up and into the living room to nurse, he will stay up until I lay him down for his first nap. Or, if I feed him in his nursery chair, he will usually go right back to sleep. I've started changing his diaper consistently after his 12am and 4am feedings, ensuring he soothes himself back to sleep (they are teeny-tiny feedings and he falls asleep at the breast). He will sleep up to 3 hours in the morning if I allow him to, which makes me think maybe he's logging the hours missed during the night?

He hasn't been waking regularly 30 minutes to an hour after bedtime any longer, and on the occasions he does, he settles himself back to sleep rather quickly.

I've stopped obsessing over our routine and have become a teeny bit more easy going. I was driving myself crazy stressing over keeping to a strict routine if everything didn't add up to the minute. Life is so much better with a little bit of flexibility. I can still manipulate his routine on the days that need it (when we have somewhere we have to be at a certain time, visitors, etc...). We are rocking our Easy-Going-EASY routine right now!

If I can ever return the favor for you, please let me know!  :) :)

Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 14:48:50 pm »
I do have one last question - did you swaddle at 4 months for the shhhh pat method? We stopped swaddling when 'Houdini' kept working his arms out and the velcro swaddle part would in turn work it's way up to his face. He still slept through the night without the swaddle and it's been almost 2 months now since we've used it. We initially transitioned to a sleep sack with swaddle option letting him have one arm and then converted to full on sleep sack without the swaddle option.

Offline ginger428

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 23:14:05 pm »
I'll be back for a more detailed response but really quickly-

We had 2 night feeds until 9 months or so. But stretching night feeds to over 4 hrs is a good plan to start.

We were done with the swaddle at 4 months. Switched to the zipadeezip for a couple more months. Off amd on success with that.

Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2016, 21:41:07 pm »
Thank you so much for your feedback, generosity and time!

Offline FPT23

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 03:33:46 am »
Hi there! I'm so sorry your post hasn't been answered! Maybe I can help as I know sometimes we can all get busy :) I hope I'm not too late!

IRT your last post, I also lost the swaddle at 4 months and shh/pat continued to work. When my LO was swaddled, he used a different method of "shh/pat" ....he didn't take to patting much and a simple caressing of his forehead did the trick. Once we lost the swaddle and he was way more active, that wasn't working and a firm pat on his bum was what he then preferred.

4 mths is sooooo tricky. For us, not only with the sleep regression (which is developmental and they start making sleep associations) but he got over the swaddle, and we lost the paci too. It was a trying time haha but it only lasted about 2 weeks (but felt like forever)

The NWs you are speaking of are very common. I've seen it multiple times on the forum and we went through it too! He used to sleep straight until 3/4am and then began waking between 12/1 and then again around 4/5 at times. This went on and it eventually fixed itself. I seriously took them as night feeds since there is a growth spurt at this time too. EASY is all over the place and I'm happy to know you've become more flexible because at this age, it's all you can be really ::) .......try and think of it as a routine, not a set schedule. As time goes on, you will easily be able to go by the clock if necessary!

If there's anything else please continue to post :) it's all about helping one another!

Xo
Fabi






Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 17:01:43 pm »
Thank you so much for your reply! I woke our little angel up this morning after 12 hours of blissful baby sleep. Yaaaay! He's been sleeping through the night again for almost a week now and his naps are going really well with a modified, easy-going, daytime routine.

Offline FPT23

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 18:38:26 pm »
Wonderful! I too had a 12 hour night yst! Hurray. Aren't they lovely ;)

I'm so sorry your post went unfinished but I hope if you ever need the help again, you come back :)

Glad everything is working out well for you now! :D
Fabi






Offline ginger428

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2016, 01:41:35 am »
Meggy, I pm'd you.  Many, many apologies for not returning sooner.  Thank you FPT for lending support.

Thrilled to hear about both your 12 hr nights! Not sure I ever had one of those! It's really lovely to hear.


Offline Meggyfunk

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Re: 4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2016, 15:17:53 pm »
Thank you, both! The answer for us was night weaning. I tracked his daytime and nighttime feedings by expressing milk and bottle feeding to learn he was "snacking" at night (sometimes not even 1 oz). After three nights, he stopped waking to feed and is going 11-12 hours per night now.