4 Month Old (used to SSTN, now waking)

[FPT23]

Very smart!

Happy to hear that!

[MakMommy]

Meggy and others,

Thank you so much for your sharing and replies. I am having a similar experience with my almost 4month old and I find much comfort and guidance in your posts. I am having the frequent NWs right now and I am needing to determine if it is hunger or becoming a prop (we're on a 4hr EASY with good A and S times during the day; smooth transition to BT). At this time I think it is hunger as he is usually taking both sides, each wake. I think I need to ride it out for a couple weeks hoping it is due to the 4month sleep regression associated to growth and teething?? How long until I should consider low supply or weaning night feeds? How did you decide when to give Tylenol? LO isn't showing any teeth, but I can tell when it is bothering him.

Also, any swaddle advice I would love! My LO is in a miracle blanket and needs the swaddle to sleep. He breaks out around the same time he is waking each night. It is becoming and ongoing saga. He is quite the Houdini! If we leave an arm free he scratches his head. I see that in the 4th month many LOs are ready to abandon the swaddle... here's hoping! We have the "perfect peanut" swaddle too (one is convertible), but baby does not like that he can get his arms up, and then stuck. The Miracle Blanket keeps them by his side.

Thanks! I have found these forums so helpful!!

[FPT23]

Hello! Your very welcome and honestly, this is just a wonderful forum for support isn't it?

To answer a few of your questions... NWs do become more frequent during the 4mth SR. Yes it can be due to hunger since there is a GS around this time. During the 4th month, I honestly treated every NW with a feed. I nurse as well. In time, the NWs passed. It is also  possible developmental as well during this time ...if you can, please post your EASY. Jot it down for a good 3 days and post it. Maybe there is something we can add to help. How frequently is he waking at nights? I also noticed mine had a good leap in A times during the 4th mth too. All babies vary of course but mine took a bit of a leap.

Are you having supply issues? Or what do u mean low supply? ...honestly we started getting 8+ hrs of sleep around the start of the 5mths after the regression. BUT, breast fed babies I feel is very common to still wake at least once for a feed still. So if he wakes, I would continue to feed. If he starts his long stretches and then he wakes before then, after having slept straight for awhile, then I would try comforting and resettling before offering a feed by that time. Make sense? So if he sleeps at 7pm and then wakes at 9pm but is on a 4hr, chances are it's not hunger. I would resettle. If for a few weeks he has been doing 6+ hrs stretch, then wakes before then all of a sudden- I would also resettle then. Keep in mind that there are always growth spurts as they grow.. Sometimes they will wake and be hungry. So you'll then know to add extra feeds or increase solids etc. kwim? ...how long as he been on 4hr easy? For a breast fed baby, that's early. I don't think we hit that till a bit later. Is he exclusively BF? ...you may want to make sure he's getting enough in his day especially being on a 4hr easy. How many feeds per day? Is he average on his weight etc?

As far as teething, I guess that's your call. If you see him gnawing away more than usual and getting fussy/bothered, I would medicate. Form of medicine is up to you. They also have teething pellets and things of that nature if your not comfortable with Tylenol etc.

The swaaaaaddle... During the 4mths it gets tricky!!! Thanks to another part of the regression- they become so mobile! Many begin rolling too and that's when one has to start working w that swaddle. They are ready to be weaned but aren't ready to sleep without it haha! We had such a difficult time w/ the swaddle! He also used the miracle blanket. He started rolling... One. Two, he used a paci back then so I was trying to wean gradually- u know, one arm at a time thing... But he kept grabbing at his paci and disturbing his sleep. The swaddle had also begun to disrupt his sleep as he was fighting against it or kicking his feet out and would wake. After attempting the gradual way for a few weeks, I just removed it entirely and AP his sleep. I did this w naps first. Eventually bedtime. It's a process. But many start with one arm out for a few days then the other arm, legs etc. I started with legs first.. Since that what he always had out anyway good luck! Many aren't ready either- if he isn't just wait a few more days.

Many hugs!

[MakMommy]

please post your EASY

630-7am - Wake (A)
E - 7/730
A - 730/8
S - 9

E - 11
A - 1130
S - 1

E - 3
CN - anywhere from 430-530 for 30-45min
E- 630/7 (depending on E time and level of tiredness get ready for bed first or after)

DF - 10-11

NW -
1/2am - E
4/5am - E

There is flexibility in this schedule. If he E at 730am and again at 11 it's 3.5hrs. Today I fed him at 230pm instead of 3pm. Usually at night its 3.5-4hrs.

...how long as he been on 4hr easy? For a breast fed baby, that's early

I was asking about this in another forum. He does fine with the EAS in the 4hr, but I wonder if he is getting enough in the day...

Are you having supply issues? Or what do u mean low supply?

I always worry about my supply. Ive had quite a go with establishing milk and latch. Took me about 6weeks to get a handle on it. I also get frequent plugged ducts which interfere. He drains me a lot and I do not have any extra (I did previously). I wonder if I am keeping up and don't know what to look for if I wasn't.

Is he exclusively BF? ...you may want to make sure he's getting enough in his day especially being on a 4hr easy. How many feeds per day? Is he average on his weight etc?

He is EBF. He did have a top up last week with formula because I had a medical emergency. So with the 4hr he E 4x +DF and NWs. He 97th for height, and approx. 50th for weight. In another forum someone suggested feeding before one of the naps, but adding a bit of activity to ensure I do not feed to sleep. Could add extra ounces and boost supply.

if your not comfortable with Tylenol

I do not mind giving him Tylenol, I'm just not certain when to give. Do not want to give if do not need to, and vice versa. Do people usually give Tylenol when the tooth is moving up and down but not yet cutting?

They are ready to be weaned but aren't ready to sleep without it haha

Exactly! Ah the dilemma! haha. Thanks for sharing your experience. There is so much going on with the physical and developmental growth, teething... swaddle seems like just another thing. It coincides with the NWs though too. I will start the process again.

Thank you so much for your response. Always feel more empowered with each subsequent reply! I think I mostly need to normalize this period and ride it out! Much love.

[FPT23]

Your very welcome and I hope your regression passes soon and quickly! Routine looks pretty good BUT in my opinion.... There's a bit too much DAY sleep. 2 hrs each nap and a CN. I would aim for 1.5 naps and then the one 30 min CN. See if that makes a difference?

I would def go back to the drawing board when it comes to BFing. Personally, being a BF mommy myself...I was not at 4hr easy that quickly. Of course it all depends on ea mommy and baby, but if you've had issues in the past with supply and such... I would consider that being a big factor for the NWs. Yes, I do agree with feeds before naps. Now, the suggestion is a feed before a nap... Not feeding to sleep/nursing to sleep. I started to do that too once naps increased around this time too. It seemed I started to have some supply issues when his naps increased.... I guess bc he was going longer between feeds but he still needed more. I began that feed before naps. I would nurse then start his wind down so it never became a prop.

As far as the Tylenol or medicine, I guess mothers instinct... If he's had good naps, well fed, dry diaper... And all of the basics covered, and he's gnawing away and being fussy--- I guess that's when one would. I can't really say for sure when one knows.

I had a fought time with the swaddle this time around! DS1 weaned easier than DS2. But my first son was not as desperate to have the swaddle removed. He wasn't breaking out of it and all that. It never disrupted his sleep. I weaned it when he started getting upset as I started to swaddle him. Easy--- one limb at a time and that was that. He also never used a paci. DS2 it disrupted his sleep and he was just grunting and hating it haha!!! But having the paci, removing arms was hard as he just kept grabbing the paci and then couldn't replug blah blah.... It was not fun. But once we passed it, as we do all phases ....he's been a pretty decent sleeper

Yes a lot of it is developmental during this time too and extra NWs... Then they just stopped as his A time slowly increased as well.

Many hugs!!!

[Meggyfunk]

Hi Mak Mommy!

Gosh, I'm sorry that I missed your reply and I'm so glad you found this post helpful! I tried to catch up as best I can and here's what I can offer from my experience with our little one...

Tylenol: Our child's pediatrician believed he might be teething at his 4 month check up and guided us on offering him a small dose of infant Tylenol at bedtime. She said it wouldn't harm him in trying and may help him sleep. We gave it a try and to be honest it wasn't a miracle cure all - we still had to get over the hump of his night wakings. About two weeks after his check-up we saw two little teethies popping through and Tylenol has helped with his discomfort. We use it every night, only at bedtime and I'm pretty sure the top two are about to pop through any day.

Swaddling: We really liked the SwaddleMe velcro swaddles in the beginning. Eventually, he Houdini'd his way out of those so we tried the Halo Sleep Sack with the swaddle option and let him have one arm out (no arms at nap time). We finally gave in and just used the Halo Sleep Sack without the swaddle option to keep him cozy (no sleep sack at nap time). And, he's now in footed jammies without a sleep sack.

Night Weaning: Once we determined night weaning was appropriate for our son, I began reducing the amount of time I nursed him and within a couple of nights he was no longer waking. His first wake up was consistently one hour after bedtime and I stopped that feed cold turkey. Looking back, I believe his growth spurt hit and then night wakings became habitual with the timing of things. There is sooooo much going on for babies at that time developmentally. The Wonder Weeks has been really helpful in learning about developmental leaps and milestones.

I've never done a dream feed and they have always intrigued me. Our bedtime is later and is around 8:00pm most nights. In lieu of a dream feed, I used to try and cluster feed him before bedtime when I was aiming for him to sleep through the night and prior to his regression...who knows if it really played a part!?

I'm completely jealous of your EASY! I tried sooooooo hard to get us on a 4 hour EASY and it's just not consistently happening; one day we might get a 1 hour nap, the next day 1.5 hours and another day 2 hours.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them here or private message me. I'm on and off the computer, so bear with me. I get e-mail notifications when I have a private message and I'm not sure how to tell when there is a new response on the thread. I just kind of happen upon them when checking back every now and then. If anyone knows of a way to change my settings to know when someone responds, it would be super-helpful :-)

Xo

[MakMommy]

There's a bit too much DAY sleep. 2 hrs each nap and a CN. I would aim for 1.5 naps and then the one 30 min CN. See if that makes a difference?

I have had to be really flexible with this the last week especially. The naps have also been effected by the teething, etc... Days are looking more like EASA with flexibility on E schedule (3.5hr-4hrs).

Of course it all depends on ea mommy and baby, but if you've had issues in the past with supply and such... I would consider that being a big factor for the NWs. Yes, I do agree with feeds before naps.

I think the longer E times have contributed to NWs. I have been trying to feed more frequent during the day, and/or feed (but not to sleep) before a nap. There were some nights where the NWs were getting a little further between. Last night, baby had trouble E due to teething pain. I pumped one side (having trouble getting a let-down) and I only got one ounce (this was BT feed). I was going to put it aside as a top-up for DF but baby ended up showing hunger cues again before BT. Gave him the measly ounce in a bottle, he slammed it instantly. Because of this, my DH gave him another 2oz of formula and he finished that too. He took a little less at DF, but he ended up sleeping until just after 3am! I fed him then and he slept until 7am! Thinking supply might have something to do with the NWs (although he seemed to be less hungry as opposed to previous nights; i.e., didn't drain both sides).

Easy--- one limb at a time and that was that.

Been one-limbing it and so far it is going ok. He's up to a free hand and opposite leg lol! Can't wait to ditch the swaddle.

Tylenol: Our child's pediatrician believed he might be teething at his 4 month check up and guided us on offering him a small dose of infant Tylenol at bedtime. She said it wouldn't harm him in trying and may help him sleep.

Thanks for sharing. I gave last night at BT and tonight. Seems to help. I can see two little tiny nubs on the bottom. Hope they poke through quickly.

I believe his growth spurt hit and then night wakings became habitual with the timing of things.

Yes! I haven't done a yield in quite some time and am having difficulty getting let-downs. So I am not entirely sure what he gets through the day and whether it is adequate. I am certain however, that the NWs are due in part to needing more during the day. I am doing what I can to up my supply during the day but think I am having difficulty. He appears legitimately hungry at the NWs.

I've never done a dream feed and they have always intrigued me.

I starting to wonder... he has been waking just after 1am anyways, and I get to bed between 11-1130pm after the DF.

I'm completely jealous of your EASY!

During all these developmental changes, the EASY is pretty flexible right now... Having to be very adaptable.

Thank you both so much for the support. I know this time can last weeks, even the month. I am trying to ride it out and see if things progress and stabilize some. I've also made a difficult decision to slowly start transitioning to bottlefeeding. So, it's a bit of a trying time, but the support and encouragement makes it all the more manageable. I will keep you updated!

[Meggyfunk]

It was really helpful for me also. Sometimes I felt like the only person on the planet when I was up in the middle of the night and just having someone say, "me too!" felt like the biggest relief and comfort. I remember his regression taking a toll on our naps also at one point; I fed him to sleep in my arms a few times just to make it through with an afternoon nap. And, some days looked like EAEASE. Being flexible was the only way I didn't drive myself mad. And, I'm still a bit more flexible. If we are 30 minutes off our EASY here and there, I've learned the world will not end (It really used to feel that way, haha!).

I remember wondering if he was getting enough at one point during his regression also. There was a week or so when my supply seemed down a bit; I drank Earth Mama Organic Milkmaid tea and pumped an hour after his first morning feeding. If you are really concerned, is there a lactation consultant in your area or breastfeeding support group where you can weigh your little one before and after a feeding? Or, doctor's visit that can offer you support in knowing that your child's weight is OK? These visits were always very comforting for me when I was in doubt.

You should really feel proud of all that you are doing for your little one. Breast or bottle, it's all the same at the end of the day; try not to be too hard on yourself for deciding to do what works best for you and your family.  Pretty soon it will be spoons and sippy cups 

Hang in there, I promise it will pass!

[FPT23]

I remember too, that at around that time my supply changed. They start napping longer (sometimes) and then they aren't stimulating you as much, yk? That's why you need to do something like:

E
A
E
S

...yes not nurse to sleep but another nursing session before nap time wind down ...see if it helps! So she won't be on a 4 hr anymore but something like 3-3.5

I'm glad to hear about the longer stretch of sleep! That's probably what might be happening here with the NWs. He is hungrier during the day and remember, there is also a growth spurt! So I would considering adding some pumping sessions to increase your supply. During this time, I also had the milk tea! I was desperate and I also did the lactation cookies/smoothies with the Brewers yeast (which helps they say!). Now, I'm not sure if I saw a big difference BUT I know he gained more weight than previously so maybe it did help! I also kept him on the breast often! Just like I told u, EAES. Nurse after a nap, nurse before a nap... Etc. this might not be convenient or what you want to hear but I went back to doing/fitting 8 nursing sessions a day! I ended up at times giving him formula for top offs too. Hope you can speak with a lactation consultant in your area!

Hopefully that helps the NWs for good! But stil expect it kinda crazy while this phase passes ....you don't have to do Tylenol! But maybe those teething pellets? Doesn't hurt to try and help him and your NWs too ...it's tiring .....

Ugh and I tell you, once the swaddle was done, I was SUPER HAPPY. Haha! You'll get there!

Xo hugs!