Author Topic: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)  (Read 3242 times)

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Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2016, 20:24:43 pm »
Thanks so much both of you.

I think I am coming to the same conclusion - DS just can't do 1 nap yet.  On 1 nap days, he'll do an 11.5 hour night, but that still gives him an early wake up as his 'cycle' ends up being 23.5 hours!  And yes, I think trying to push the nap is getting us entirely nowhere!

So, I'm going to try the mini cat nap thing in the morning to take him through to a fixed nap somewhere in the middle of the day.  He won't sleep in the car, but I think he'll be OK going down in his cot - won't like being woken up though!  I may have to have the raisins ready...

I'm thinking about:
WU - realistically between 5:30-6:00
Catnap - 10-10:30????  But I may have to play around with this.
Nap - 12:30-2pm
Bedtime - aim to be asleep by 6:30. 

The only issue is that with 2 hours of sleep in the day, he'll probably only do an 11 hour night, which would make his WU time at 5:30 still when I really want him to stretch to 6am.  But maybe I can put him down a little later for bedtime gradually, so we shift it?

Thanks so much both of you - DH is sick of sleep talk so I'm so grateful!


Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2016, 06:24:12 am »
Yes play around with it..but you might find that a morning CN needs to shorter than 30mins at this stage ..try it though & you'll know if you get a short 2nd nap or nap resistance for a 2nd nap

Xxx
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2016, 11:43:05 am »
Well we tried a 20 minute cat nap:

WU: 5:45
Catnap: 10:05-10:25
Then I put him down aiming for a 12:30 nap and he's still shrieking away :(  He's clearly overtired as his wind down turned into screaming when it's usually quite calm.  I'm now worrying about a day with only 20 minutes of sleep!!!


Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2016, 12:41:18 pm »
Hugs, I think perhaps too little, too late.  I'd have gone for the catnap earlier and then the 'main' nap earlier too.  But just hang in there, this transition is rubbish but you will get through x
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Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2016, 18:14:08 pm »
Thanks!  He did eventually go down so the day looked like this:

WU-5:45 (he did a 12 hour night after only 1 hour of sleep yesterday!)
Catnap-10:05-10:25am
Nap-12:55-2:30pm
In bed for 6:20 and asleep by 6:40pm

He was better after the long sleep but still a bit OT I think.  Bedtime was quite peaceful though luckily! 

DH and I thought about the positioning of the main nap and chose 12:30 because it will get him through to bedtime at 6:30pm even if he only does 1.5 hours of sleep.  I could try 12:00 but if he woke at 1:30pm then bedtime would have to be 6pm?  I know he can do 5 hours A time as he's managed 6 hours on days when he refuses the PM nap but I think that's a bit too much to repeat every day.  He's always liked less A time in the afternoons. 

It's a bit of a juggling act as he really does seem to cap sleep at around 13 hours in 24 so if he's doing nearly 2 hours in the day he will only do 11ish at night.  I don't want him going down at 6/6:15 really as he'll still wake before 5:30am.

Do you think a longer catnap (30 mins) might help him get to 12:30pm without being OT?  It's hard to move it reliably earlier as since we've been pushing the nap out he's got used to going down at 10 or later for his first nap. I put him in his cot at 9:50 this morning but he didn't go down until 10:05.  He won't sleep in the car or the buggy!  I'm right in thinking that I wouldn't want a bigger gap between the catnap and the main nap, yes? 

DH thinks we don't have enough 'data' and wants to do the same thing tomorrow and the next day at least before we change anything - given that DS hasn't gone down for a nap straight after lunch in a long long time!  His body clock must be a bit confused.  But he gets far less worried about sleep than I do!

Thanks so much for helping with this. 


Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2016, 05:35:50 am »
As Katherine has said it's all trial and error with transitions

Most LOs are down to 1 nap by 18mo though so he's quite close tog that and a 30min CN seems quite long at this stage of the transition.

I wonder whether the shrieking at 2nd nap could be UT rather than OT? My DD shouts very loudly and angrily if I try her too early for her nap.

I would be inclined to agree with your DH about giving the same routine another try today but possibly aiming for a 1pm 2nd nap...unless you feel your DS is showing clear tired signs before then...in which case try either a 30 min morning CN or Katherine's advice on a shorter earlier CN and earlier main nap could work better  :)
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Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2016, 06:01:14 am »
Thanks!

Rubbish night here - woke at 5am!!!  Did way under his usual 13 hours of sleep in 24 hours - more like 12 hours 15 mins. 

Assuming he's OT but I have no idea why last night was WORSE than the day before yesterday when he only did 1 hour of sleep in the morning! 

Not sure what to do when he wakes so early - DH is all set to do the same as yesterday but I want to pull everything forward by half an hour and see where we get to. 

He doesn't do great tired cues - he'll rub his eyes if he's really tired (but he usually won't do this until you start putting him down for a nap) but if he's OT then he normally just gets hyperactive and will cry more often.  This is what he was doing yesterday lunchtime so I'm assuming he was OT but I could be wrong!  If he's UT he normally will play in his cot and get upset eventually or just drift off to sleep.

This is slowly driving me insane!  Thanks so much for continuing to post.


Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2016, 18:17:55 pm »
You have my sympathy. My DD is also in the 2-1 transition at the moment and it feels like a very movable feast with lots of UT and OT.

How did the rest of today go?

I find that a broken night and early waking usually means OT has built up. I usually try everything to get DD back to sleep if she wakes as early as 5am..but if that fails I do a short, early CN as Jessmum suggests.

If your DS is getting OT, I do wonder whether it would help to try Jessmum's suggestion of a 15min CN starting sometime between 9.30-9.45, up by 10, or after 15mins depending on which comes first! And then trying for a long nap starting around 11.30/12? With a 12 start, even if you only get 1.5hrs, do you think you could still probably stretch your DS to a 6.30 BT?
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2016, 18:45:39 pm »
^^^yup, we did, and just hung in there for it to settle.  Once the morning wake up improves it gets easier yk?  I tend to agree with your DH really, I think chopping and changing in the hope of 'catching them up' really just doesn't work in these phases.  I would make yourselves a plan - say 12pm nap +/- 15 mins catnap mid-morning, with 6.30pm bedtime.  And just stick it out for a while to see what happens.  Sometimes when we set the rules it allows LO to start regulating their sleep a bit rather than both us and them trying to compensate, if that makes sense. 
***Katherine***







Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2016, 20:11:24 pm »
Thanks both of you.
We're not getting broken nights but normally less than 10.5 hours means OT for us.  I can't resettle DS - if he cries I go in and he'll just lie down and say 'night night'!  But this morning there was no crying, just chatting and rolling.

However, today was OK.  We pulled everything back by 15 minutes but otherwise kept it the same as yesterday:

WU-5am but got him up at 6am (at least he's resting)
Catnap: 9:45-10:05
Nap: 12:20-13:45 (put him down at 12:05 and he was getting too tired really.  I think 2 hours is the maximum between a 20 minute catnap and the next sleep really).
In bed at 6:15 and asleep by 6:30pm.  Didn't seem OT tonight and was happy all afternoon.  We shall see what happens!   reckon that actually we could stretch the afternoon slightly more...but I wouldn't want to stretch the day longer with such an early wake up.

DH is very happy that you agree with him and we'll be trying the same tomorrow!  :)
Thanks both of you.

Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2016, 04:42:01 am »
Well he's been awake for 45minutes already! Woke at 4:45am. Surely there's something really wrong here as he's never woken quite this early!

I have to admit I have no idea what to do!

Was his day too long yesterday for the amount of sleep?

WU-5am
Catnap-9:45-10:05
Sleep-12:20-13:45
Bed (asleep) - 6:25/30
WU-4:45am!!!

He's now only really getting 12 hours of sleep in 24 which is suddenly much less than he usually gets.

Would you carry on doing the same thing today with the morning catnap? It seems to be making it all worse...

Thanks so much.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2016, 12:10:33 pm »
I would have said that was a NW, not morning.....could you not resettle?  How do you deal with the early mornings at the moment, as in what do you do when he wakes and when do you actually get up to start the day?

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Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2016, 12:48:32 pm »
There's nothing I can do unless he goes back to sleep! He didn't cry so I didn't get him up until 6am as usual. He just rolled around, rubbed his eyes, talked etc. Got a bit miserable about 5:50 so I talked to him over the monitor. If he sits up I tell him it's still sleepy time and he'll lie back down but he didn't sit up this morning.

Did the same thing as yesterday but rubbish naps today:
Nap: 9:45-10:05 (woke him)
Nap: 12:20-13:35 (is clearly still tired and now getting hyperactive)
I'm going to just go for a 5:45/6pm bed time and hope he catches up a bit overnight somehow!

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2016, 19:49:41 pm »
Hugs, that EW/NW sounds brutal.  Could you try a slightly shorter CN (maybe 10-15mins- up by 10) and a 12.00 nap if he's not getting a long enough sleep after a 20 min CN?
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Offline ecwinters

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Re: 2-1 transition worries (and we haven't even really started yet!)
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2016, 06:22:34 am »
Thanks!
Sorry for the delay - have been so busy with work on top of trying to sleep...I put him to bed early that night and he did catch up overnight.

I've kept going with the 20 minute catnap then longer sleep.   He's caught up now so he's back to his normal amount of day/night sleep.  Doing things like this:

WU-5:15
Catnap: 9:45-10:05
Nap: 12:30-14:05
Bed (asleep): 18:30
Then he woke at 5:30 this morning.

We've started to base bedtime on a) the amount of sleep he's had in the day (we can't expect him to do more than 13 hours total) and b) trying to not let his day get much more than 13 hours long.  This seems to be working at least reasonably well at the moment - at least he's on some kind of routine again and is happy.

The next step is to move the whole thing so he's back waking at 6am...and then we need to shift him a whole hour when the clocks change at the end of October!!!  I'd like to do this sooner rather than later as I suspect he might be hard to shift!

Thanks