8mo - can I start to get ready for 2 to 1 transition?

[N_Mom_S]

Hello everyone! I'd appreciate some input about my LO's routine and advice about when and how to start getting ready for the 2 to 1 transition. He's 8 months and almost 2 weeks and he's breastfed. Lately, we've noticed an increase in his A times and the need to get him really tired before naps and bedtime. If we do this, sometimes he's able to self-settle for naps, and very occasionally at bedtime. He's teething and practising pulling up, so lots of things going on here! With the increase in A times, if we don't wake him up from naps, we end up with a very late BT.

My main question is, which nap should I start capping, the first one or the second one? Will the 2 to 1 be easier if I start capping the 1st one? Sometimes his 1st one is longer and sometimes his 2nd one, so I don't think there's a real preference there.

Also, will that affect early wakings? They drive me crazy sometimes, they're so inconsistent.

Here are his last couple of days (8:30am to 9:30pm is ideal, we live in Spain):

WU 9:05
E 9:05
A 2H55
S 11:55-1:05 (stroller, that's why the short A time) - (1h10)
E 1:15
E 4:00
A 3H30
S 4:35-6:15 (1h40)
E 6:30
E 8:40
A 3H30
BT 9:45 (lots of crying, can't figure out why)

I did W2S and he lasted until 3:15am, I fed him. Then, water at 6:15am

WU 8:30
E 9:00
A 3H40
S 12:10-1:40 (I woke him up, 1h30)
E 1:45
E 4:15
A 4H
S 5:40-6:40 (I woke him up, 1h)
E 8:30
A 3H10
BT 9:50 (no crying)

NW 00:50 (water), E 2am

After that, he woke up at 7:15am probably due to hunger, but I fed him and he didn't go back to sleep. I think he's compensating it with a long morning nap (in these cases should I let him sleep as much as he wants in the morning?).


As you can see, very inconsistent A times although we shoot for 3h30-3h40, but mostly we watch his cues.

Any advice will be appreciated!! 

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

Your main question about which nap to cap...it's up to you! Whichever fits best with your days and activities..but also trying to work out whether a longer pm nap affects BT, or whether a long am nap affects the 2nd nap! 

I would try to wake from 1 nap rather than both and be consistent in which nap you want to cut shorter.  He's still taking 2 good naps, so I think I might be tempted to let him sleep in the morning and wake from the afternoon nap to get BT at the time you want.

EW can be caused by several things- including overtired & undertired! Early Waking
It's hard to guess from a couple of days what might be causing your DS to wake.  Maybe keep a record for a few more days, with as consistent a routine as possible and we can look together to try to see if there are any patterns?

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you for your reply!!

I have no preference for any of the 2 naps and it appears as if he doesn't either, that's why I was wondering which one is easier with the 2/1 transition in the future. In the transition, is it easier to eliminate the 1st one?

I'll keep the record and post back, last night it was really good, no EW

[Scottishmummy]

I think it's easier at first to go with long am/short pm, especially if he's taking pm nap quite happily after long am. The long am just gets gradually pushed later and later and the pm gets shorter and shorter.

When you go short am/long pm it's more of a guessing game- how short to cut am nap, when to do pm nap after short am...but it suits babies who need a long A time to bed, who refuse pm nap if they have a long am one, or if you have other older kids & need/want to get out the house in the morning.

If you try one for a week or 2 and it doesn't work, you can change to the other option.

[N_Mom_S]

OK I'll cap the 2nd one, although I'm still not sure how much total daytime sleep he needs. I think he's usually OK with more or less 2h30, but if you have any other thoughts please let me know

The last 3 days, including today:

WU 7:15 (EW)
E 7:15
E 9:00
A 3H50
S 11:05-1:35 (2h30)
E 1:40
E 4:10
A 4H10
S 5:45-6:05 (20M)
E 6:15
E 8:55
A 3H40
S 9:45

W2S -> E 4:30


WU 8:25
E 8:50
A 3H40
S 12:05-1:05 (1H)
E 1:15
E 4:05
A 3H55
S 5:00-6:30 (1H30) I woke him up
E 6:30
E 9:00
A 3H05
S 9:35 (He looked a bit OT but it didn't take long to put him down)

NW 11:00, 00:30, 1:50, E 3:45


WU 7:35 (EW)
E 8:45
A 3H50
S 11:25-1:15 (1H50)
E 1:30
E 4:10
A 3H40
S 4:55-5:20 (25M)
E 6:00
E 8:30
A 3H45
S 9:05

[Scottishmummy]

I'dbe interested to hear how last night went.

Looking at those 3 days & the previous ones you posted, you seem to get earlier waking after a longer 2nd nap...so I would definitely try to get long am/short pm.

It looks like 3hr50 for the first  A time gave you a longer nap than 3hr40?

ETA around 2.5 hrs day sleep sounds within average range for his age.

[N_Mom_S]

You may be right! I've been looking at past logs and I can see that before most of the EW there was a late pm nap!
Although on the 1st day of the last 3 days I posted, there was a 5:45-6:05 (20M) nap and no EW the next morning (and a great night!). But I don't know... I'll try to push the 1st A time to 3h50 (although that long nap may have been catching up from the EW), and wake him up from the pm nap, let's see how it goes Thank you so much!!!!

Last night was interesting... w2s didn't work and he had his 'habitual' NW at around 00:30. Sometimes it disappears but it's mostly there and he always wakes up crying, that's something I can't figure out  Nothing worked and I had to feed him (many other times when w2s fails, just water and holding him works). I fed him again at 6:40 and then he woke up at 9:20am!! I'm pretty sure the 6:40am feeding helped, but maybe the EBT too? It'd be great to keep having 12h nights but I find it impossible to put him down for an EBT with his long A times.

Today it went like this, he went down great at both naps and BT:

WU 9:20
E 9:30 (he didn't eat much), again at 10:30
A 3H25
S 12:45-2:05 (1H20)
E 2:10
E 4:45
A 3H25
S (stroller) 5:30-6:00 (30M)
E 7:20, 8:30
A 3H35
S 9:35


Are we stuck in a 'one day EW/ next no EW' loop? Ideally I'd like him to wake up at around 8:30am, which would put the 1st nap at 12:20, and imagine he sleeps for 1.5h, that would put the 2nd nap at 5:30pm. If the 1st one is 1h, the 2nd would be at 5pm.  I think I should wake him up at 6pm the latest, so in any scenario, he ends up having 2h daytime sleep. Does that sound right? That's more or less what he had today and he was fine, but he also woke up late so that may be part of the reason why.

[N_Mom_S]

And that's exactly what happened today... he woke up at 8:40 and started his 1st nap at 12:35. In this case, should I wake him up from the 1st nap after 1.5h so that he can have a 30m nap in the afternoon (and wake him up again), or should I leave him sleep as much as he wants and then maybe a super short catnap (and wake him up again, probably getting him angry )? Does this mean we need to head towards the 2/1 already? I hope we can delay it as much as possible 

[Scottishmummy]

Hi! Sorry only just seen this..been out with my 2 all day..what did you do about today's routine?

Personally, I would let him sleep as long as he wants for the first nap, but then cut the second nap to however short you need it to be to get BT.  You might find you can get a 2nd nap earlier than 4hrs in the stroller. Around this stage my DD would do about 4hrs to the first nap but I could AP a second nap after 3hrs A time- so not have to cut it super short. I personally don't like waking from both naps as I think that's more likely to lead to OT.
I think a late nap only gives you EW if it's long, a shorter one (under an hour)

Hope that all makes sense!

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you for your help, I really really appreciate it!!!  You're right, we do get shorter A times in the stroller 

Well, here are his last 2 days:

WU 8:40
E 9:10, 11:55
A 3H55
S 12:35-2:40 (2H05)
E 2:45, 4:10
A 3H20
S (stroller) 6-6:30 (30m, woke him up)
E 8:45
A 3H15
S 9:45 (in crib by 9:20 but he cried and cried)

w2s worked, E 2:20, 6:20 water, E 6:55


WU 9:10
E 9:40, 12:30
A 3H35
S 12:45-3:05 (2H20)
E 3:20, 5:40
A 3H25
S (stroller) 6:30-6:45 (15m, woke him up)
E 8:50
A 2H30
S 9:15 (very tired)

w2s didn't work so NW 00:10 (had to rock him), E 1:15, E 4:55

Today he woke up at 8:05am.

I agree with you about the long pm nap causing EW. Now I'm a bit confused about how short to cut it. The first day it was 30m (his cycle I guess) and was able to get to BT OK but then he cried a lot in the crib. He woke up late the next day. The second day it was 15m and he was very tired by 9:15 (he went straight to sleep when we put him in the crib), and I don't know if that has something to do with the first NW, which I didn't get on the 1st day. Again, w2s is a bit of a lottery since I don't know if it's habitual or not, it's been going on for months and I can't figure it out (any thoughts on that would be more than appreciated).


Also, I've gone back to 2 night feeds (BF) after having managed to get only one  I even added 2 extra feeds during the day but they don't seem to have any effect at night. I don't know what role hunger plays in his EW but I'm pretty sure he's past the growth spurt. It seems like I'm never going to be able to wean him at night 

[Scottishmummy]

Hmmm maybe he needs a longer CN? Sounds like he's getting OT on 30mins or less. Maybe try 40-45 mins?

Or..a shorter last A time after the shorter nap?

[N_Mom_S]

Hello again! I've been tracking the past few days to try to see some patterns, but I'm either blind or this kid is totally unpredictable haha.
Thank you very much for your help . I was going to follow your advice about 40-45m but these past few days he's been waking up by himself (not crying) after 35m due to noise or light (he takes his 2nd nap in the stroller now), so I just took advantage of that. We've been having EW after the 35m naps so I'm more confused now than I was before. Can that be OT? Why does he look OT to you, because of the NW? It's true that by BT he's always visibly tired but most days he keeps pulling up and moving around when we put him in the crib, and he hasn't been crying much at BT, the worst day was that one I posted previously.

These are the past few days (starting after the last one I posted), maybe you can spot something I can't 

WU 8:05
E 8:50, 11:30
A 3H40
S 11:45-1:55 (2H10)
E 2:00, 4:00
A 3H50
S 5:45-6:10 (25M)
E 8:10
A 3H05
BT 9:15

NW 10:50, E 1:20, 4:20 (water, rock), E 5:20


WU 9:00
E 9:10, 12:30
A 3H35
S 12:35-2:45 (2H10)
E 3:30
A 3H35
S 6:20-6:55 (35M)
E 8:40
A 2H35
BT  9:30

NW 00:30 (water), E 1:30, E 5:20


WU 8:30
E 9:10, 12:00
A 3H35
S 12:05-2:35 (2H30)
E 3:10
A 3H20
S 5:55-6:30 (35M)
E 6:35, 8:40
A 2H50
BT 9:20

NW 11:50, 00:30 (water, arms), E 2:15, E 4:15, 6:40 arms


WU 7:45
E 8:55, 11:30
A 4H35 (happy! )
S 12:20-2:30 (2H10)
E 3:10
A 3H10
S 5:40-6:15 (35M)
E 6:20, 8:50
A 3H15
BT 9:30

NW 00:00 (water, arms, it didn't work so I fed him at 00:30), E 4:00


WU 7:30
E 8:30, 11:45
A 4H50 
S 12:20-2:30 (2H10)
E 3:00
A 3H15
S 5:45-6:15 (30M)
E 6:35, 8:35
A 3H30
BT 9:45

NW 00:40, E 1:20, 4:15 (water, arms), E 6:30, EW (happy) 7:15, we left him in the crib and he started crying at around 7:45 and then he fell asleep again, until 9:30am.


Things I noticed:
Those long A times after the EW really confuse me. It seems as if he takes his nap at around 12:00-12:20 regardless of his WU time.
Apart from that, I noticed that after 3h05 of daytime sleep on the 3rd day, he had an EW. But the next day too, and he had had his usual 2h45 of daytime sleep the day before.
Night wakings have worsen too, I'll probably have to post in the proper forum for that 


Sorry for the long post, I wanted to be thorough 

[Scottishmummy]

Sorry for the delay in replying ....It's because I'm having trouble working out why you might be getting EW TBH as, before they started your days looked pretty consistent so can't see a clear cause, other than increased NWs.

I saw your NW post. As Lauren says NWs could be developmental as there is a sleep regression at this age, so EW could be related to that...or EW could be OT from the NWs.

Nights and naps can be linked. I wonder whether we should merge your 2 threads? I'll have a think and maybe get some extra eyes on your posts & get back to you

Xxx

[N_Mom_S]

OK thank you, I really appreciate your effort!! And f you think that merging them would help, feel free to do it

[N_Mom_S]

I'll post the last two days because they've been a bit different, in case it helps:

EWU 7:15, we left him in the crib and he started crying at around 7:45 and then he fell asleep again, until 9:30am
E 9:45, 12:40
A 3H20
S 12:50-2:25 (1H35)
E 3:00
A 3H30
S 5:55-6:30 (35M, woke up crying)
E 6:30, 8:15
A 2H40
S 9:10

DF 11:30, E 3:15


EWU 7:05
E 8:40, 11:05
A 4H10
S 11:15-12:55 (1H40)
E 2:00
A 4H05
S 5:00-5:50 (50M)
E 6:00, 8:00 (very little), 8:45
A 3H10
S 9:00

NW 11:30 (water, rock didn't work, fed him at 11:40), 2:10, 3:15 (again water and rocking didn't work, fed him at 3:30), 6:55 (self-soothe)

WU 7:45

[lolsyb1982]

Ok i have locked the NW thread now so SM and I can both support you on this post instead.

He does sound OT to me. The first day you posted his A times were around 3.5hrs and his last A was shorter and seems like he STTN and only had the DF.

2nd day his A times are longer, over 4hrs and then a longer A to bed. That was a 14hr day so I think was probably too long and is why he woke several times that night.

What do you think?

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you lolsyb1982!

The E 3:15 of the first night is that he woke up and I fed him, so 2 feedings in total (he's never had a STTN, I wish! haha)

You may be right about OT, although there are some other days with short A times and several NW
The second A time was long because he insisted in pulling up in the crib and he didn't look very tired. In the end he fell asleep by himself. At BT yes, he was visibly tired. If I keep trying an EBT and shorter time there, won't I risk having EWU? Seeing how he woke up at 7:05am after the shorter A time, and at 7:45 after the longer one  So many things going on...

The 2nd day I decided not to DF and see when he'd wake up. He took a full feed at 11:30 and an almost full one at 3:30, I don't know if the 2:10 NW was due to hunger or something else.

Do you still think it's OT? Can he be OT and insist on pulling up in the crib and take a long time to fall asleep anyway? What can I do in that case? I was happy that he fell asleep independently in the end. 


We're going away for 2 days and I'll try to do my best, although I'm sure we'll need some readjusting when we come back 


Thank you both for your help, really really appreciated!!! xxx

[Scottishmummy]

Enjoy your days away and don't worry if naps all go crazy while you're away, they often do!

I'd agree with Lauren about the OT, I find frequent and/or crying NWs are usually OT. Some LOs actually sleep better with an EBT and actually sleep longer. Some catch up with sleeping later in the morning sometimes. Some use naps to catch up...it's trying to work out which suits your LO best.

Your A times vary quite a bit, I wonder why that is?  More consistent A times would make it a bit easier to try to work out what might be going on.
Do you do naps based on A times or tiredness cues or just when he falls asleep if you're out?
Is he self-settling for naps (apologies if I've asked this before)

Once you're back from your days away, could you try choosing an A time for the first nap and sticking with it for a few days and same for 2nd nap and BT? 

Based on the routines you've posted, next time you get an 8-8.30 Wu, I'd try

WU
A: 3hr30
Nap 1 (long)
A: 3hrs
Nap 2: (short up to 45mins?)
A: 2.5-3hrs
BT

Forgot to add... Re Night feeds...I had to wean both of mine off night feeds. With DD Indid what you do and tried to resettle without feeding and this gradually pushed feeds later until she stopped waking,

This didn't work for my DS though, he wouldn't resettle without a feed, so for him I had to gradually reduce the time I fed him for, by about a minute every 2-3 nights until he would resettle without the feed.

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you Scottishmummy!

He self-settles most of the time (except for NW), sometimes he just needs a hand on his back. On normal days without EWU we try 3h40-3h45 A time. Sometimes he goes to sleep immediately and sometimes he wants to pull up and move around and it takes him 20 min to fall asleep or more, that's why the A times are so different. On days with EWU we were trying the same but we noticed it took longer to put him down and that he was falling asleep almost at the same time as the normal days, with longer A times. This may worsen the OT but I don't know what to do differently if he decides to fight it and practise pulling up  But today for example he was OT and did 3h15 in his first A time, after EWU.
I'll try the routine you suggested, although it looks like much less time than what he's used to and he may just decide to stay up in the crib for a while... Should I also try it on EWU days?

Also, after these 2 days of OT he slept for quite a long stretch last night, without wakings the first part of the night, only up for feeds. He woke up early in the morning though, at 7:15. Does this mean anything? He may have just been too tired even to wake up crying and the other nights he was OT but in a lower degree  haha

Re: night feeds, I tried gentle removal about a month ago and he went from 2 full feeds to 3 small ones so I considered it a failure But your '1 minute less' method sounds interesting, I'll give it a try when things settle down a little bit, thanks  

[Scottishmummy]

Hi again! Hope you had a good trip away.

With EW, I actually tried to keep the first nap around the same time as normal waking even though wu was earlier and A time longer. If they are just lying in bed with early waking they can do longer A time afterwards.

Two options to consider if your EW continues,

1) push first A time a little longer (4hrs?) or
2) try  switching to short am/long pm...trying a short am nap (under an hour) and then try for a longer pm nap?

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you!!

We do the same thing, after an EW we try to put him down at around the same time as normal. So we've been doing it but EW continue coming, although it may be a mix of that and something else Should I try the second option then? I'm scared to try that since his first nap is consistently good, I don't want to mess it up 

I have a question re: your weaning method, did you just have to wean one feed or more? I don't know if I should do one minute less in each one or first wean one and then the other. I timed them yesterday and they're 11-12min each.

[Scottishmummy]

Night weaning first as that's the easier one to answer! I had 3 NFs to wean with DS! I did one at a time. I started with the earliest one (he woke around 10.30/11) and weaned him off that first then did the 2/3am one after that and the 4/5am one last.

Re - naps. I'm really not sure but here are a couple of thoughts for continuing with long am/short pm:

Another thing to consider is whether he might be only doing a short night from being OT? Someone told me a 9-10hr night can be OT. So if you want to keep long am (& I understand that)..could you try an earlier, slightly longer 2nd nap (in case OT is there as waking crying after 30mins ish suggests it might be) or an earlier BT if you are get a short, possibly OT 2nd nap? See if he catches up on some sleep?

If that doesn't work then,  with always taking the nap around the same time, it might be that the time of the nap is maintaining the EW. The solution then would be to try pushing the start of the nap a little later. Even just 15mins might make a difference. The flip side of this is it does risk some OT.. But sometimes a LO will resettle from EW if OT go back to sleep and re-set the wake up time.

What do you think?

[N_Mom_S]

In your last paragraph you're talking about the am nap, right?

Is waking up crying after 40-45min also OT? He's still catching up from the trip (last night 11h30, this morning's nap was 3h) and his pm nap was 40min today, and he woke up crying. Yesterday's EBT (8:30pm) worked great but I guess today it won't be possible after that 3h nap delaying everything, we'll see! I'll keep you're suggestions in mind, thanks!

[Scottishmummy]

In your last paragraph you're talking about the am nap, right?

Yes, sorry if that was unclear .

Is waking up crying after 40-45min also OT?

Waking crying is often a sign of an OT nap. He might go to bed a bit early if still catch up on sleep? Worth a try?

[Scottishmummy]

Just wanted to add...another option with EW is to try to resettle back to sleep instead of getting up. Doing that is my favourite option if you can manage it as it gives a later start to the day & a later first nap and can help to get out the EW/early nap/early BT loop.

[N_Mom_S]

Mmmm how do you resettle a very happily awake baby who keeps pulling up in the crib, is it possible? Any tricks? For example today he woke up at 7:30am and we left him there until he started fussying at 8:15am. Other times he starts fussying much earlier and we have to start the day very early.

I'm afraid we got into an OT loop..  his A times are getting longer and his naps and night time sleep shorter. Early bedtime (20:30) worked great the first day so that's our goal, but we're going back to his previous A times with the difference that we have shorter naps and an OT baby I'll keep trying though, it may just be the first days. Any other thoughts to get out of the loop apart from EBT?

And I have another question about night weaning, when you stopped feeding your LO after the correct time for that day, did he fuss? I don't know if I'm doing it correctly, because when I stopped he still wanted more and cried a bit in my arms (not much though).

[Scottishmummy]

I try everything possible to resettle EW: sh-pat, feeds, white noise etc.  Is it possible that the fussing is tiredness and wanting to resettle rather than wanting to get up?

Hmm his naps still sound tricky..Could you post his EASY for the last couple of days?

Night weaning ... DS fussed a little when I took him off feed early but I used to then try to soothe him in the cot. I would keep the same length of feed for 2-3 nights before cutting another minute off.

[N_Mom_S]

It could be tiredness some of the days, but most of them he wakes up happy and energetic, so I don't think so...

I was hoping today would be different because he woke up at 9am, but I think it's getting worse. He cried at BT like the previous 2 days, but this time for 35 minutes... All 3 nights I've pick him up after the OT wakings because the first night he woke up 3 times and kept waking up until I picked him up, so today and last night I've picked him up at the first waking.

Last 3 days:

WU 8:00   
E8:35, 11:10   
A 3h 35m   
S 11:35-14:25   /2h 50m   
E 14:40   
A 3h 20m   
S 17:45-18:25   /0h 40m   
E 18:25, 20:15(bit), 20:50   
A 2h 50m   
BT 21:15   OT

NW 21:20, 21:30, 21:40, E1:15, E5:00


EWU 7:25   
E8:30, 11:20   
A 4h   
S 11:25-13:10   /1h 45m   
E 14:00   
A 3h 55m   
S 17:05-17:50   /0h 45m   
E 18:00, 20:15, 20:40   
A 3h 30m   
BT 21:20   (OT, tried since 20:50 but crying)

NW 21:25, 00:20, E1:20, DF5:45


WU 9:00   
E 9:10, 11:40   
A 2h 45m   
S 11:45-13:00   /1h 15m   
E 14:05   
A 3h 30m   
S 16:30-17:45   /1h 15m   (tried 3h15 A time but I think he was UT, cried 15min)
E 17:50, 19:50(bit), 20:15   
A 3h 20m   
BT 21:05   (tried since 20:30 but crying, OT?)

NW 21:40 so far

[lolsyb1982]

Sorry I haven't read all of the recent posts but could you reduce that last A a bit if he's getting those OT early wakings.

[N_Mom_S]

I tried 2h45, could he get OT because we put him in the crib UT and then he cries and cries? Or does that look more like real OT? Sometimes I really can't tell the difference. But I'm pretty sure his 2nd nap was UT.

[Scottishmummy]

There is a developmental leap and sleep regression at 9 mo that can cause crying at BT and naps and NWs..but yes shouting/crying when UT but not settling can then lead to OT. Is he working on any new skills?

I'd agree that your naps yesterday look UT..1hr15 is usually slightly UT for us.  If you get a later Wu again, I'd try to keep around 3hr30 first A time at least..if you want to keep doing long am/short pm.

I feel your pain with the EWs,.got same issue here!  For us chronic EWs have usually been resolved by one of the following:

Managing to resettle and push whole day forward (usually possible if EW is from OT)
Increasing A times somewhere in the day - so either first nap or BT is later
Increasing A times by cutting the CN shorter.

It sounds like it's not possible to resettle from EW and cutting the CN shorter than 45 mins gave you OT, I think?

Here are my thoughts...but again I'm struggling to see patterns as the A times vary so widely
If you want to stick with long am:
From you last few days it looks like around 3.5-4hrs A time gives you a good first nap but the 3.5 gave EW the next day...maybe choose a first A time and stick to it for the next few days & see how the days pan out?

Other option if you're getting OT at BT after an afternoon CN, would be to try short am/long pm...maybe try the 45 min nap in the morning (maybe around 11.30ish?), and try for a long nap around 3-3.5hrs after that and that would give you a longer sleep to get to BT?  So possibly:
Wu: 8
A: 3hr-3hr30
S: 11.30-12.15 (or 11.15-12)
A: 3hrs-3hr30
S: 3.15/30-5.15/30 (or 3-5)
A:3hr30 (or 4hrs if can do long A time after long nap)
BT: 9?

Around this age/stage my DD was doing something similar (but with an earlier start to the day)
Wu: 6.30
A: 3hrs-ish
Nap 9.15/9.30-10
A:3.5hrs
Nap :1.30-3.30
A:4hrs
BT: 7.30

[N_Mom_S]

Hi!! Those are really good ideas, thank you! Although today's EASY is probably going to throw you off! It totally threw me off:

WU 8:40   
E 9:05   
A 2h 50m   (he was tired)
S 11:30-13:25   /1h 55m   
E 13:30   
A 3h 10m   (a bit UT so it took a while, but he didn't cry)
S 16:35- 17:15   /0h 40m   
E 18:00, 20:00    
A 3h 25m   
BT 20:40 (OT, cried 12min... getting better...)

I imagine soon he'll have an OT waking. In general it was a really good day, with really short A times for what he's used to, I guess he's still catching up from the trip. BT's A time has to be shorter, definitely. I wonder if we'll have EW tomorrow...

So it seems we're back to long am nap (but after really short A time, confusing). But if/when EW continue I'll probably have to follow your short am/long pm nap advice  I'll try to resettle EW in any way possible, although I'm not very confident in that one, usually he doesn't even go back to sleep after nursing.

[N_Mom_S]

Hi! I wanted to share good news  Last night he only woke up at 23:00 and then he ate at 1:15, and that was it! Until 7:45 this morning  We'll keep EBT and probably fixed nap times, especially the first one: both yesterday and today 11:30 perfectly with very different WU times. We started giving him more solids yesterday and I eliminated one BF, that has probably helped too.
The 1 minute night weaning for the first feed is working so far, we're down to 10 min. Did you go all the way down to 1 minute or did you eliminate it earlier than that?

Let's hope we have a good period without EW, also with your LO!

[Scottishmummy]

Great news! So pleased this has worked out for you. The night weaning too..I found that at around 2-3mins DS stopped waking or would settle without feeding.

I sometimes wonder whether EW and fighting BT might be developmental..my DD seems to be working in pulling up & cruising and now she's starting to get it we got a later wu this morning..will see if it lasts!

Good luck to you too, hope the long lies continue 

[N_Mom_S]

Hello again!!!

I have a question re: the 2/1 transition. Yesterday he did this because we were away and he refused to take his afternoon nap in the stroller:

WU 7:30
A4h10
S 11:40-13:45 (2h05)
A6h40
BT 20:25

And today (after 2 night feeds) he woke up at 8:25am  He was tired in the evening and fussied a little but not terribly, and putting him down at bedtime was easy. Does this mean he's ready for the transition? Should I start pushing the am A time?

[N_Mom_S]

Or capping the am short?  That's what's suggested in the FAQ, I guess it applies to our situation?
Do you think I should go for it? He's 9.5mo but he's always been early for everything (growth spurts, some of the milestones, teething...)

[lolsyb1982]

I would be cautious to just jump to 1 nap straight away. Whilst he handled it for one day whilst you were out and about the chances are after a few days of 1 nap he would probably be pretty OT.

It's up to you which nap you start to cap when going through the 2-1. If the afternoon nap becomes a struggle then it's a good idea to do short am long pm. That also usually stops any EW. If it's BT that becomes a struggle then usually long am and short pm works better.

My DD is a similar age and we're in the thick of the 2-1 too! She is lsn and at the moment her day looks like this

Wu 6
Nap 10.30-12
Nap 4-4.15 (this is usually in the car as she won't go down otherwise)
BT 7 (asleep by 7.15)

HTH X

[N_Mom_S]

Thank you Lauren! Our LOs were born almost on the same day! haha
Good to know it's possible then, I was worried it was too early to start but I think he's ready.
Are you cutting the am short or the pm one? Today he refused both 2nd nap (after only 1h20 am nap) and BT, so I don't know what to do! I think the 2nd nap was worse though. I'll keep an eye on both but I'll start cutting the am one short.
Should I keep posting in the 2-1 transition post instead of here?

[lolsyb1982]

Oh really haha!

They're in a development leap at the moment according to my app so that could be contributing to some of the refusals.
At the moment we're cutting the pm nap short but this will have to be switched around in 2 weeks when I'm back to work and she's with a childminder.

You can post here and if you like join the chat on the 2-1 nap thread for moral support 

[N_Mom_S]

Hello again! We've had a couple of irregular days and I'd like to ask for advice about what to do next. Yesterday and today I've had to be out and about in the mornings and he hasn't taken naps in the stroller, so I've put him down after getting home. He was OT but he didn't cry much going down.

Our last 2 days + today: 

WU 8:25
A 3h25
S 11:50-13:15 (1H25)
A 4H35
S 17:50-18:25 (35M)
A 3H5
BT 21:30  (great night after that, only 1 NW)


WU 8:50
A 4H20
S 13:10-15:40 (2H30)
A 5H45
BT 21:25 (more or less good night)


WU 9:20
A 3H40
S 13:00-.... I imagine he'll take a long nap and we'll do something similar to yesterday

Should I go back to what we had on the first day? WU time is getting later (I'm not complaining! haha) so I don't know if I'll be able to make him nap at his usual morning nap time...

[lolsyb1982]

I would say go back to your original A times on the first day. Whilst he handled the longer A's for a couple of days they might not be sustainable long term.

If your first nap is starting to shorten or he's sleeping longer at night you could probably give him a nudge on A times by 15 mins or so.

[N_Mom_S]

OK thank you, we'll see how it goes!!