Author Topic: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old  (Read 1954 times)

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Offline Eva's Mummy

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2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« on: August 07, 2016, 06:24:23 am »
Excuse the typing but I'm shattered.  Dd2 has been struggling with bt since starting nursery on Monday.  But tonight was awful,  it took 50 mins to get her to bed, crying trying to get up , wanting out of the room. Settling for a bit then starting again as soon as I left. 

Then she woke at midnight and wad exactly the same till she eventually went back to sleep at 2:10

Dd1 was up at 5:40 so I'm not functioning well this morning.

Our routine has been roughly

WU 6:30
Nap 11:30 -13:30 ish
BT 6:30

Nursery days are different
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 07:19:05 am by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 20:12:11 pm »
Hi!

Sorry you're having such a sleepless time. I'm part bumping this & part asking for more info as I'm not sure what to suggest from your post...

Could you track her routine for a couple of days and post her exact timings of Wu, nap, BT?

Could there be some SA or OT with starting nursery?
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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 07:09:07 am »
Sorry, I didn't notice I had a reply. 

So ill post the last 3 days.

Mon wu 6:48
Nap 1-1:50 nursery
BT 6:15

Tue wu 7:09
Nap 12:30 - 13:25 nursery
BT 5:55

Wed wu 6:42
Nap 11:35 -13:27 home
BT 6:27

Woke up at 23:50 and wouldn't go back to sleep.  I ended up bringing her into our bed which I never do. Every time she dosed off I would try to put her back in her own bed but she started screaming as soon as I lay her down.

The following week was pretty similar with lots of screaming at bt

It could well be sa or ot but I can't decide what to do about it.




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Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 08:59:51 am »
Does she have all of her 2y molars yet? Sorry you're so tired :( ((Hugs)) xx
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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 09:35:31 am »
No. She got all her other teeth by 16 months then nothing. Not even 1 through yet. When she came into our bed she settled and just lay there quietly till she nodded off
 She is so clingy, always jumping in front of me to pick her up.

Not sure if I should be changing her routine or not.


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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2016, 12:30:48 pm »
As you say could be a combination of OT and SA..or more clingy because of OT.

How flexible are the nursery with naps? Is there anyway they could get her down earlier for her nursery nap? I know they have to fit in lunch and other kids but her nursery nap is much much later than her home one.

If not then all you can do is try to let her catch up on sleep at home, either with super early bedtime on nursery days, and/or let her sleep as long as she wants for her nap and night sleep on home days...and maybe try an earlier BT on home days too.

Hopefully it is just part of settling in to the nursery and will improve as she gets used to it but it's hard for now. Big hugs xxx

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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 17:38:01 pm »
At nursery they all go down for a nap after lunch. So usually 12 but it seems Ella lies down and looks around them when everyone else is asleep then she goes to sleep, and wakes as soon as the first 1 is up. She's been at the cm before th at for a year and even there her naps were around 1:15/1:30 for 1 to 1.5 hours so that's not so different and she was fime.  But I guess the level of stimulation at a nursery is way higher than at a cm's.

So today I woke her from her nap after 2hrs 15 mins , then tried her usual 5hrs a time to bed and she's a sobbing mess it's been 1hr and she's still crying. If I sit in tge chair with her she will go to sleep but as soon as I put her down she's a meas.  She  certainly doesn't look tired at bed time but  I think possibly even after the longer nap she's maybe still very ot abd gotten a bit hyper. What do you think?

I sometimes worry that after a long nap she'll be ut but she's always been HSN. I really just keep double guessing myself and making things worse

The part I hate the most is the more info in the worse she is and the longer it takes her to get to sleep.  But I can't stand not going in. I tried lying on the floor but she just stood up leaning over the cot trying to get me crying harder and harder.

**update  - 1.5 hours after bt she is asleep.  No doubt it will be a long night***
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 18:56:44 pm by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 05:39:42 am »
Eventually asleep at 8. Woke at 2 back to sleep at 3. Up again at 5 then cried on and off until I got her up at 6.

Dd1 was up at 5:10, I can't go on like this.


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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 05:49:20 am »
Huge hugs..sounds like you're all exhausted & need catch up sleep.

Can you let her take a longer nap over the wkend? as long as she'll sleep if you are comfortable with that. Or at least 3hrs? And do earlier BT for a while until she catches up?  No later than 6 & she might even need earlier.

Can you do an even earlier BT on a nursery day?

I don't think you need to worry about UT right now, more sleep than normal is just catching up on what she's missed

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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 07:53:45 am »
Thanks for your help. It's hard to think straight on no sleep.so im going to pick them up ftom nursery at lunch time today to see if Ella will sleep longer. I'll prob get her down about 12:30/12:45 so would you still go 3 hours and when for bt. Or shorter?

I'll stick to 11:30 for max 3hrs if she will donit at the weekend and 6pm bt.

Nice to speak to another Scottish mummy too,  where are you from?


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 14:33:43 pm »
Well today was.

WU 6
Nap 12:43 - 15:03
So when would you do bt? X


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 15:43:49 pm »
I would do 7pm on that I think x
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 16:03:05 pm »
That's what I was thinking but completly lost all confiddnce in my decisions now.  Previously I would have done 5 hrs after that nap but I think not setting naps and bt is kicking me in the teeth now as I'm waking in the am and nap and doing a time to bed. 

So on nursery days wu can be anything between 6:15 or 7:15 if I let her lie in. Nap is usually around 1 hr at 12:30 ish so when would you do bt then?

Or should I try to keep all days similar and make nap at home 12 to whenever and set bt to some thing.


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Offline jessmum46

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2016, 16:38:25 pm »
Ben's routine has essentially been the same for months - I really, really recommend set(ish) nap and very set bedtime at this age. 

He does:
WU whenever, I'm not sure!  Lies quietly until we get him up around 6.30-40, very occasionally will sleep in to 7 but rarely - usually if ill
Nap is 11.45/12 at nursery and we did almost the same for months at home - 12/12.30
(Lately it has moved later, often more like 1pm at home as he won't go earlier but that's very recent)
BT always 7pm - it has moved earlier perhaps 3 times due to (a) total nap refusal or (b) illness

Where you are I would set nap at 12-12.30 (within that window) and BT to 7pm and don't budge :)
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2016, 17:02:48 pm »
Thanks and would you wake her in the morning and for naps or just leave her too it.

Half the reason I've been doing it is so that she's in bed before dd1 as she still has melt downs if she has to go first. 

I generally end up lying on her floor until she falls asleep or she just cries which I can't do with dd2 still up and 9 times out of 10 I'm doing bt alone. 

I guess I'll need to tackle both bts to make things better x


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 18:44:16 pm »
Well tried 7. Put her down and she started crying but I had to leave her to get dd1 to bed. She only took 5 mins then I went back in, she was jumping, screaming,  crying, pointing at the door to go out, asking for 5 more mins but I just sat on the floor and sang and let her cry ( don't know what else to do ). Then she fell asleep at 7:40 so not great but not awful maybe x


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 06:24:20 am »
Yes, she slept all through the night and woke at 7:40  ;D

Just put her down for her nap at 12:10 (resisted a bit). Been out at softplay this morning though as it's dd1's birthday tomorrow. She slept until 14:40

Tried to have her asleep for 18:40 it seemed to be going ok with the sitting on the floor and humming but as soon as I stop humming or open the door, she's off again. Just snuck our now and she's crying a bit but not much so I'm not going back in yet. Oops screaming now. Managed to get out at 19:30

Sorry a million questions but on nursery days where she only does between 45 mins to 1hr naps do you keep BT at 7?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 18:30:30 pm by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline Eva's Mummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2016, 07:11:45 am »
I knew bedtime took too long. We had a screaming nw at 1:30 I did the usual and just sat and sang till she went back to sleep that took 30 mins. Then up again at 4 tried the same but started crying every time I left again.  Ended up lying in the floor doing the odd sshh when she started to cry. Eventually she was very still do I slipped out just in time to hear dd2 wake up and shout on me.  ::) now I could have cried. Dd2 is still asleep now at 9:00

Shold I gave tried bt even earlier than 18:40 last night?

We are out all day today so I don't know what nap will be like. It's a 1hr car journey each way so hopefully she'll sleep thenand I guess just do bt as early as possible

Well she woke at 9:30 then asked to go for a nap in her buggy at 13:10 so assuming she has 2 hours would you do 7pm for bt?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 13:40:52 pm by Eva's Mummy »


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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2016, 13:46:27 pm »
If you're trying for set naps, I'd keep BT at 7pm on home days when she has a good nap at least. Could she need to go into bed closer to 7? I aim for 7-7.30 for my DS and put him in bed quite close to 7.

On nursery days, I would try an earlier BT to compensate for the short nap. Probably between 6-6.30 depending on how tired she seems.

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2016, 19:20:42 pm »
I think it's a matter of trying it and seeing what happens. Personally I would keep in a 30 minute window so I'd do 6.30 on nursery days if nap of an hour or so. If you change it any more it isn't 'set' and you're back to guessing yk?
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2016, 19:25:20 pm »
Ok thank you ladies.  So on home days well do:.

WU whenever she wakes
Nap 12/12:30 uncapped
BT 7

Nursery days

Wu whenever she wakes
Nap  ???
BT 6:30 if nap is an hour or over or 6:00 if under an hour

Sound about right?


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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2016, 20:34:13 pm »
Home days - that looks like a good  plan

Nursery- I'm hesitating as I'm not sure...as Katherine says, if you are going with set naps & BT general advice would be stick with no earlier than 6.30...but the nursery nap doesn't seem to be in line with the "set" home nap time and you seemed to be getting OT building up previously with 6.30 BT

I think the nursery days will be trial and error a bit...so maybe try 6.30 if the nap is short & aiming for catch up on home days with that uncapped nap..but you could move BT on nursery days earlier if you think she's getting too OT with that.

I do set BT with my DS and try to keep within 15-30 mins of set time, but have put him to bed up to an hour early if he is really, really past himself tired for any reason.
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2016, 20:21:04 pm »
Just when you think your getting caught up, she goes to nursery naps for 25 mins then I can't get her to sleep until 7:10 cos she's wired  ???


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2016, 20:53:08 pm »
Oh no, hope she does an ok night

I'm thinking back to when DS was 2. He rarely slept more than an hour at nursery, even though he would do 2-2.5hrs at home. I think we just stuck with 7pm BT regardless and even though he's sensitive to tiredness, he seemed to cope...so maybe she's got used a 7pm BT?
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2016, 05:40:37 am »
Bad night again.  We've never done set bt before and she's generally always been in bed around 6:30 .

Nursery again today.  I'm praying for a nap, it's soul destroying being stuck on a floor 3 times a night when all I want to do is go to bed myself x


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2016, 05:56:28 am »
Fingers crossed. If not, maybe try earlier BT? 6?
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2016, 08:04:55 am »
Well nap was 50 mins 13:10 - 14:00 I could see she was still shattered sp since I was home a bit earlier I thought why not try sebt to see what happens. So I tried 17:20 I thought I'd cracked it. This was the first time I was able to put her down and leave the room without het crying and I could hear het trting to self settle. Unfortunately after 20 mins she was getting really worked up so I went in and lay on the floor again. She went quiet straight away but kept checking I was there I snuck out at 6 and she sttn until 7am.

Think maybe nursery days need yo be sebt until she can cope a bit better.  It will be such a push since I just got away early yesterday.  Need to have dinner ready to go i think


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2016, 18:55:16 pm »
Wow, great that she slept through.  Sounds like she really needs that catch up sleep.  Does she get her tea at nursery? Just wondering if you could do a really short BT routine almost as soon as you get in and get her down?
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2016, 19:21:16 pm »
No they get a 2 course lunch at 11:45 -then snack at 3 but that's just a sandwich or half a toasted muffin and a couple slice apple so I think she would still be hungry.

Today nap 12 - 13:50
BT 18:50 so curious to see what that brings.

She has certainly cottoned on to me lying down and patting her bum cos as soon as we go in her room she point to the floor and says mummy and pats her own bum. If I don't donit she grabs my hand and puts it on her bum ::)

I need to get out of the room without lying down I actually am trapped in the same lying on the floor situation with dd1 aswell. Its torture.



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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2016, 19:04:37 pm »
How have the last couple of days and nights been?
I hope EBT is still helping with catch up sleep and a better night.

I haven't much personal experience with sleep training a toddler but the 2 methods suggested here are Walk in Walk out (WI/WO) or gradual withdrawal Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

But maybe easier to do one DD at a time!

Have a read of that link and maybe start a ST thread if you want to give it a go & support while you do it.

Xxx
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2016, 19:22:22 pm »
We had 1 nw last night so lying on the floor for 30 mins at 1:30 then I had to wake her at 7:40 as we had to drop Dh at work. 

Nap was 11:50 - 13:55
Then bt 18:45 took an hour for her to fall asleep with me there.  She kept shouting on me and patting her bum then hanging over the edge of the cot looking for me.

Naps are ok, I just leave and she cries for about 1-2 mins softly then off to sleep.

I'll read the treads and see what in think will be best. Will get to get this wee one sorted first before moving on to dd1


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2016, 19:31:06 pm »
Sounds like having you in the room might BT distracting her from sleeping?

If she can self settle (for naps) maybe WI/WO would work at night. I imagine it would be a few long evenings at first though...We used WI/WO after my DD (10mo) got used to us sleeping on her floor at night during the 9mo sleep regression but then also got distracted by us being there and wouldn't go back to sleep. DH andI took turns with it. It did work well for us.
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2016, 06:08:59 am »
What a horrible night. WU from 2:15 - 4:18 as soon as I left the room she started crying so hard and coughing and choking. We u went back in an lay down she settled but jet checking I wad there.  My back and shpullers can't take much more of lying on the floor never mind the tiredness.

Nursery today so that should be another fun night x


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2016, 12:15:29 pm »
Oh no, long NWs are exhausting. Hope you manage to get her an EBT tonight
Xxx
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2016, 12:39:18 pm »
Well I think we ate having some progres.  Bt is still awful but on Friday she woke twice in the night and self settled. Then yesterday she self settled twice then I had to go in and lie down at 5:30 with her for 10 mins.

Her day yesterday was

WU 7:27
Nap 12:06 - 14:10 ( I had to wake her to go out)
BT 19:25 was aiming for 7

Do you think the nw's are still ot since I woke her from her nap?


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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2016, 12:43:38 pm »
Do you think the nw's are still ot since I woke her from her nap?

Yes, possibly, upset in the early hours is often OT...but you had to go out so not much you could do...
Maybe she'll do a longer catch up nap today or settle more easily for bed?
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Re: 2 hr long night waking - almost 2 years old
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2016, 07:42:55 am »
right its oficially driving me insane. I will start a thread about sleept training and see if i can get a wee hand hold through it. it certainly cant be worse than this  ::)


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