PUPD becoming a prop? - 7 month old - advice needed please!

[LDC]

Hello

Our little boy has just turned 7 months old. He has always had a good routine, and we are following EASY roughly as set out below:

Awake: 6:30 & Eat
Activity
Sleep: 8:00/8:30 (we have tried to extend this but he became OT and his nap would only be 30 mins)

Awake: 9:30/10:00 & Eat
Activity
Sleep: 12:00

Awake: 1:15 & Eat
Activity
Sleep: 3:30

Awake: 4:15 & Eat
Activity
BF & Sleep: 6:30/7:00

(NB: we are trying to lengthen the activity times bit by bit.)

He is a really good sleeper... ...when he's down! Currently, if he gets a good 3-3.5 hours of naps, he sleeps well at night. Usually just one wake up sometime between 1-3am for a feed. He goes straight down after being BF.

We started PUPD when he was 5 months old after he started to scream a lot before bedtime, and refuse to nap in his cot. There was a lot of really loud screaming: 3 hours' worth on a couple of nights. He's very determined, which makes him all the more lovable. Our first foray into PUPD took about 2.5 hours - we did not bother counting the PUPDs! It took about two weeks of really hard effort until we got down to 15-30 minutes and - happily - with little if any screaming, and none at all at the volume when he started. Bedtimes were so much calmer, and our fear pretty much disappeared. 

Now, while the bedtimes remain really calm, we are trying to get him to get to sleep without our intervention. While PUPD has been a revelation for us, we are concerned that he has become too reliant on PUPD. He still needs around 1-3 PUPDs, but we are keen to cut these out, particularly as one of us has back problems. PUPD and back problems are not a great mix with an increasingly heavy baby. He's a big lad (around 10kg).

Does anyone have any relevant experience or tips on removing the reliance on PUPD?

Thanks
LDC

[jessmum46]

My feeling would be if you are doing PUPD in an age appropriate way, and after the PUPD he goes to sleep independently (ie fully awake to asleep on his own in the cot without further intervention) then this isn't a prop issue, and (looking at the routine) is more likely due to UT. I suspect a decent push in A times will help you now, most babies can manage a 2 nap routine at this age, and around 3h A time. I know in the past you've tried lengthening his first A without success, but a long nap that early in the day suggests to me that's an extension of his night sleep and perhaps he is taking longer to go to sleep at night, or having more time awake at his NW than you realise. Just go slow, 10 mins more every 3-4 days and work towards 2 naps. I would suspect you will find it easier to settle him

[LDC]

Thanks so much for the reply!

We had suspected the nap after the night time sleep was an extension after reading other posts online. We will definitely try and work on extending A time throughout the day and work towards 2 naps.

We recently cut out the cat nap at the end of the day and encouraged him to have a longer gap before bed time. He has slowly adjusted to that - he seems to really need lots of sleep. He was like that from day one and slept solidly through the night for a good month at around 4 months - he would just struggle to get off to sleep. It was like a total panic. We hope to get the uninterrupted night sleep back at one point but just feel very happy he's settling in his cot for night and day naps and will work on one bit at a time...

Fingers crossed!

[jessmum46]

He may be higher sleep needs than average, which is totally fine   May just mean he tends towards the later side for nap transitions (seems to be what you are finding now) and I'm sure once he's back on track with the routine you'll have those lovely nights back soon x

[LDC]

We were able to extend his activity time to 3 hours and it seemed to have a positive impact on night sleeping. He was only waking once (rather than the 2 he had started to do) and it was around 4.45/5.45 but would still take a little bit of encouragement to go back off.
Then...he got a big fat cold. Our A time has been 2 hours as he's wrecked. Last night he was mainly up (pooing! chatting and laughing with me at 1-2.45 and then 3.45-4.30!) Today we were able to extend the activity time to 2.45 and so I hope we get back to 3 when he's better.
I wanted to ask about the fact he was taking time to go back to sleep after his wake ups (before he got poorly). He used to drop off straight away after a feed and now he often takes up to an hour (from beginning of feed) to go off to sleep. Is this still to do with A time?
Thanks again

[jessmum46]

Could be....not in discomfort/upset at all in that time?  Could you post what your pre-illness day was looking like?

[LDC]

Thank you for your reply! This website is brilliant!

Our day (pre cold) was roughly...

WU 6 ish
BF - 6.30 ish
E/A time (Solids at 7.30)
S 9-10.15/30
BF 10.45 ish
E/A time (Solids at 12.30)
S 1.15/1.30 - 3
BF 3ish
E/A time (Solids 4.30/5)
BT 6/6.30

He was waking anytime between 1-4 and having a proper feed. His night wake ups are calm, he often lies there and I put a little bit of pressure on his legs sometimes until he goes to sleep. If I've been there a while and he still isn't asleep I leave and then he sometimes lies for a bit longer, nice and calm then cries 45/60 mins later and needs help to settle. I'm never sure whether he has been asleep in that time or just got into a sleepy trance and then got a bit overtired and needed help. It's odd because in nap and bedtime he takes around 5/10 mins to drop off and I do the same thing a little bit of pressure on his legs and he turns and drifts off to sleep.

Last night... (although I am hoping it is just due to his cold and the fact his naps were longer because he was more 'coldy' overtired and literally dropped to sleep at 6)
He woke at 12.30 (after 6 pm bedtime) had a feed and then lay in his bed until 2. Very calm but not asleep. I was knackered and so left him at 1.30 ish and then he cried about 45 mins later and needed help (5 mins) to go back down and then slept until 6. So he was awake last night for 2 hours.

Maybe I'm over thinking and hopefully after he feels better the 3 hour A time will be more established and then night time will be better. I'm just wondering if you can notice if I'm doing anything wrong.

Thank you

[jessmum46]

I'm hesitant to tweak things if he's not 100% but my suspicion is those are UT night wakings.  If they persist once he is better I would push his A time a bit to 3h15. With 3x3h A times he only has a total of 9h awake in the day and I think expecting 15h sleep overall may be a bit much. You may need to push more to say 3h30. Once you are getting to that sort of A time it may be you need to think about shortening one nap slightly to fit everything in (very common for this to start around 9-10 months, sooner for some). For example:

WU 6
Nap 9.30-11
Nap 2.30-3.30/45
BT 6.30/7

If you shorten a nap often the following A time is a bit shorter which then allows you to keep the daytime to 12.5-13h max (often a good rule of thumb).  However you may also find that he is ok with a shorter last A anyway even after a full nap of 1h30 or so - generally I would say to let him sleep for both, then if you start getting BT resistance you can wake him from the nap 15 mins earlier and see if it helps.

Does that help?

[jessmum46]

Oh and yes, this place is brilliant we rely on members like yourself sharing their experiences and supporting each other so if you see any threads and feel you have experience to share, please dive right in!!

[LDC]

Yes, thank you! Will give it a go.