13 week old 20-40 min naps making EASY difficult

[Clairehv]

Hi
DD2 is 13 weeks old and I am struggling to get her over the 20_40 minute sleep cycle wake up.
We have made some progress. For the first 8 weeks of her life she only slept in the sling or upright on me. We do now have her reflux managed on ranitidine and at 8 weeks we started her sleeping her on her tummy. We thought we had made a breakthrough with some good naps but the only way she will sleep longer than 20 mins in the day now is in the pram and it has to be kept moving or in the sling.
In both of those she wakes but the movement causes her to go back to sleep.
With DD1 around it is just not practical for me to walk for 2 hours in between each feed.
The other thing I am querying is her A time. She only seems to be able to manage an hour before yawning. If I lie her down at first yawn, she will go to sleep with her dummy with minimal fuss.
I have been trying to extend to 1 hour 15 but like now she has taken over 25 mins to settle and still isn't asleep.

The short naps are leading to huge over tiredness and a meltdown after bath. Often she screams for 40 mins and completely refuses bottle.

I don't know if the dummy is  a blessing or a curse either for resetting.

Yesterday looked a bit like this

WU 7am
E 7.15
S : yawn at 8am, tried to push on, into cot 8.15
S 8.20-8.40 (resettled) 9.10 (resettled) 9.30 crying, had dd1 so couldn't spend time resetting.
E: 10.10am
S 11-11.40 in pram, woke up as pram stationary. Tried resettling, closed eyes but kept waking.
E 12.45 180ml
S 1.15-2.15 I. Pram, woke when stopped
Tried with pram to get back to sleep
E 3.45 130ml
S in car to force a nap but only 20 mins 4.50-5.15pm
Bath 5.45
Crying refused bottle
6.30 180ml
Sleep
1.45am 180ml
WU 7.10am

So our nights are ok at the moment but how do I get over the short naps especially in the cot?

Thanks for the help in advance, I don't know how we will move to a 4 hour EASY on such awful day sleep

[Lindsay27]

Hi hun, just wanted to write quickly that I've seen this.  Have a few appointments this afternoon and will respond properly later

[Clairehv]

Thank you.
I really tried to stay on track today but she was inconsolable at bedtime tonight.
WU 7.00am
E 7.20 120ml
S started to settle at 8.20 (ignore yawn at 8am), didn't fall asleep until 8.55 but did settle herself on tummy with dummy in. Woke up 9.25am
E : 10am 150ml
S : in pram 11.15- woke 11.55- back asleep 12.10-12.25 as kept walking. 
E: 1pm 120ml
S : really crying from 1.40pm. S in sling 2pm-3.20pm
E 3.50pm 60ml then fussy crying from 4.15- tired
S in pram 4.35-5.15
Did bath early, out of bath at 5.50. Is happy in bath and getting changed then tried to give bottle, meltdown! Took 30 mins to calm  and to take bottle. She clearly just wants to be asleep.

Just feel the short naps make the day shorter and shorter and I don't know how to avoid the OT. Ideally her last nap would be between 5-6pm I think

X

[Lindsay27]

Okay so the first thought that comes to mind is the A times, so today I think you were right to ignore the yawn at 8am as I do think she'll be able to handle a longer A, but it might take some figuring out.  I usually allow for 10mins of 'settling time' so if you want to shoot for a 1.5hr A time I'd start your wind down routine at around 1.20...it may take a bit of playing around to figure out the A time, but given she did eventually settle for her first nap I'd try to maybe go right for 1.5hrs.  Given she's been settling up until now with movement, she might just need a little help to go off...have you done any shh/pat at all?  Around this age my DD was doing the wakings as 20 and 40mins too so I would just try to dedicate 1 nap (usually the first one) to resettling with shh/pat (I get how this isn't always possible with another LO in tow).  In my personal experience though I do find a lot of getting past these wakings and resettlings is age related and the do eventually learn to do it on their own and connect the cycles.

I think the rest of the day was OT like you said, her second A was probably a little long given the first nap wasn't long.  If you don't get a good first nap I would reduce the next A a bit (maybe 15mins) to try to avoid OT.  Beyond that, I think the sling nap was a good call, she seemed to get a decent sleep in there. 

[Clairehv]

Hi
ok thank you. It's funny what you forget isn't it.I remember creeping into DD1 room to turn the white noise back on at 35 mins to get her over the 40 min wake up but no idea how old she was!!!!

So with DD2 should the wind down be getting her into her keeping bag and drawing the curtains etc at 1he 20 and putting in cot before the 1 hrs 30 mins.

Will give it a go today.
X

[Lindsay27]

Let me know how it goes!

[Clairehv]

Awful day!!

WU 7.05
E : not that interested 60 ml
S, yawning and then whinge 8.15, stretched to 8.25. Some crying but asleep 8.30-9.10 tried to resettle with dummy and shhh pat. Gave up at 9.30

E 10 am
S so had to visit a friend but had planned drive around nap times : fail
screamed from 10.35am to 11. Fell asleep 11-11.20. Into sling on arrival at 11.35 quiet but didn't sleep
E 1pm 80 ml then crying
s fell asleep in arm 1.20, into car seat hoping would sleep on drive. Woke up and hysterical from 2.05-2.55
Home : into pram on tummy with dummy. S 3-3.40pm in pram walking. Wanted to get to 4pm ideally but didnt go off
E 4pm 130ml
S 5.15-6pm in pram
Into bath.
6.25 crying refused bottle until 7pm having to hold and use dummy.
Took until 7.50pm to finally settle after full bottle taken taken.

Tomorrow is a new day!
Huge meltdown from dd1 at bedtime just to add to the fun. X

[Clairehv]

Hi
so I enforced naps today by walking with the pram but it is not practical to do this every day however it made a difference at bath/bedtime

WU : 7am
E : 7.30am 60 ml (put off by 4 am bottle maybe)
S: whinging at 8.15, stretched to 8.25. S in pram at 8.30- woke 9.10, S 9.15 due to pushing pram. Woke 10.20am
E : 10.40am 120ml
S: 11.30- 12.40 stopped pram.
E 1.15 180 ml (crying from 1pm)
S 1.50pm-3.30pm in pram -walking
E 4pm 60 ml
s 5pm-5.40 in sling
Bath at 6pm
6.25 180ml no screaming or crying first.
S 7pm-

So this was a much better late afternoon evening but I am not sure how to get there with her in the cot
x

[Lindsay27]

Yes, absolutely looks like a better day overall.  When she's in the cot does she go down okay initially without the movement, then wake at the 20/30/40 min mark?  Trying to determine if she always wants the movement or just needs it to get through those transitions, if that makes sense.

[Clairehv]

Hi
She goes down initially fine and will self settle to sleep initially in the cot. The only time we have problems initially is if she is very OT.
She is now reliant on the dummy though, but as long as she keeps that in I can put her in sleeping bag , lie her on tummy and walk out

Then like clockwork she will wake, if not at 20 min, then always at 40 mins

X

[Lindsay27]

Okay, that is good though!  Honestly for us the 20/40 minute wakings were largely developmental (as long as I knew I had her A time right).  At about 4/4.5 months once we were on a 4hr EASY she eventually learned to get through those cycles on her own.  I found the same with DS (though he was a bit older).  I realize you have another LO and can't spend your entire day shh/patting, so maybe just focus on 1 nap in the crib right now, whichever one is easiest for you to commit to doing shh/pat when she's transitioning.  My DS went to preschool 3 x per week so I'd try to focus on doing shh/pat on those days, and even at that rate it only took about 2 weeks before she started learning to get past 20/40 mins.  I know that seems like a long time at the time.

[Clairehv]

Hi
I know at the moment it feels like she will never get it
  Although obviously at night we are getting those really good longer stretches.
I do stress a little that the tummy sleeping is going to negatively impact car seat and pushchair use.
So last night she slept through! Although did have 12 week jabs yesterday.
She woke around 7am. Still wasn't bothered for milk straight away.
Our day was like this
WU 7am
E 7.20 90ml
S: started to settle 8.25, took until 8.50am. Woke 9.10 tried dummy and Shah pat until 9.30. Had to give up due to DD1 'helping'
E 10.30 180 ml
S 11.20 in cot. Woke 12ish. Tried to settle. 12.40 into sling. Sleep 12.50-1.25
E 1.30pm 150ml
S 3pm in pram in house. S 3pm-3.35. Wouldn't settle with rocking
E 4.15pm 70ml
S in sling 5-5.50pm
Bath
S 7pm-

Really noticeable 40 min wakes. I will keep persevering x

[Lindsay27]

How have the last few days been hun? How do you think the 1.5hr A time is going/how is her mood? I'm wondering if your first nap is either UT/OT (UT so she takes a long time to settle so then OT nap because the A ends up being too long), or just plain OT so she's fighting it? What's your feeling?

[Clairehv]

Hi
we are really battling.
I have stretched her to 1.5 hours but just cannot crack this 40 min wake up
I even got out DD1 sleep logs to check I wasn't imagining things but at 3 months with her I was definitely getting 1.5-2 hour naps.

We are easily on a 3 hour bottle routine and sometimes could stretch to 3.5 hrs between feeds but cannot crack this over tiredness.

Today :- (both children at home  )

WU 6.50am
E 7.15am 180ml
S : was fussy and thingy at 8am. Lay down in cot at 8.10, asleep no fuss. WU 9.30
E 10.10am 150ml
S really whinging 11am.
In carry cot S 11.05-11.45, tried to resettle with dummy and rocking on off until 12.20 (had to get dd1 home)
E 1pm 150ml
S instant in sling 1.35-3.10pm (quiet but awake in sling until 3.50
E 4pm 160ml
S 4.45-5.30pm woke crying
Bath 5.45
Crying and refusing bottle after bath until 6.30 then bottle and asleep at 7pm

The short naps just mAke the day shorter and bring bath earlier. I fear this is going to impact our nights.

It is so marked her 40 min cycle. You can set a clock by her.

Any suggestions? I am starting to get a bit down about having to constantly walk her x x

[Lindsay27]

Not to worry hun, neither of my LOs were getting past the 40min mark at 3 months!  For DD it happened around 4/4.5 months and DS...gosh, more like 6 or 7 months!   Don't remind me lol

WU 6.50am
E 7.15am 180ml
S : was fussy and thingy at 8am. Lay down in cot at 8.10, asleep no fuss. WU 9.30

So this looks like a decent nap, 8:10-9:30, a 1.20hr nap after a 1.20hr A time.  I wonder if you try to stick with this A time for a few days and see what happens?

I think you really did quite well considering, her 2nd nap was short so you reduced the next A time and she did ok in the sling.  I used to only spend about 15mins trying to resettle, and if it didn't happen by that point then I just got on with the day.  I know how hard it is, you are doing fabulous and it will come together eventually.  I think the first nap today was great, and maybe stick with that A time, or even 1.25hr for a few days and that nap might settle in, and once the first one is set the rest tend to follow.