3/2 causing NWs. Paci prop

[Mandy.kamal]

My DD is 6 months and we have been struggling with the 3/2 nap transition. 2 naps makes her OT and 3 is way UT. She is now waking, crying around 5 times a night. Her paci is the only thing that soothes her back to sleep. Before the 3/2 and frequent NWs she wasn't waking crying and could just go back to sleep. I know the paci was a little prop but now is a huge prop for NWs. I replug her so much, all night.

The issue is that I don't have a problem with the paci. I don't mind replugging once at night and during naps. I don't want to get rid of the paci all together so is there a way to soothe her at night without the paci but sometimes giving the paci too? Or is it all or nothing?

[lolsyb1982]

Hi I think it would be confusing if she could have it sometimes but not others so would say it would need to be all or nothing.
I have no experience of weaning a paci though I'm afraid as DD1 didn't have one and DD2 still has hers and she's 9 months.

Do you want to post your routine to see if there's anything causing the more frequent NW or is it purely OT on the 2 nap days do you think?

[Mandy.kamal]

Thank you for the reply. You're right- it would be confusing. I'm not against the paci at all- my DS had his until 18 months!

So I wasn't sure if it was the paci prop or what until tonight. She was just horribly built up OT.....well I think so at least

I have her a CN the past 2 days to catch her up and tonight she was awake after the DF for about 45 mins happy chatting to herself and put herself to sleep without the paci 45 mins later. And she just now woke at 4:45am to nurse and hasn't had any other NWs!!

I'm expecting an EW since she's UT but just glad she got caught back up on sleep. Hoping the past week of crying NWs were just OT. Now we just have to get past this awful 3/2 transition!! Any suggestions? Should I just try and do 2 naps as many days as I can until I see OT signs and then add in a capped 20 min CN here and there?

[lolsyb1982]

Yes that's a really common approach in a transition to just offer the extra nap every few days when needed.
Sounds like you're almost there with the 3-2. Not too much longer!!

[Mandy.kamal]

Thank you Lauren!! Xx

[FPT23]

Hi! We are also doing the 3-2 nap dance atm! It could be very possible that she needs some A time pushing here. Is there a way you can post your EASY routine ?

In the mean time, I'll leave you with this link that's a great resource during this transition period. Hopefully you find some additional helpful tips

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[Mandy.kamal]

Oh yes, our LOs are the same age! Man, it's been tough! I'll post our last few days tomorrow and see what you think. I know she needed the full 3 hour A time today but I goofed and did about 15 mins less which caused an UT nap and then pulled back A time before the second nap, which caused a short nap- could have been OT but I think it was still UT so I did a tiny 15 min nap to make BT later. Hoping tonight goes okay and if so, I'm pushing forward to the full 3hoir A time before every nap and hope for 2, long ones!

As I mentioned, last night was so much better and no crying NW except her 4:45 hunger wake up. She woke at 6:40 fussing a little so I rushed in and did the paci plug hoping to stop her from fully waking and it worked and she slept until 7:55am!! Couldn't believe it. But as I mentioned- I messed up bc I put her down too early for the first nap. Ugh.

What is your LO doing at the moment? Some 2 naps and some 3 still? Are you having many NWs because of it?

[FPT23]

Yes this transition is always work, isn't it? I remember it well with my first too, and he had a harder time since he was always on the low end of A times but high sleep needs. My LO now is pretty textbook. It seems...

From what your saying about your days, sounds like baby needs some pushin' that UT/OT cycle can be vicious so be careful! ...push her slowly- few days at a time to avoid any meltdowns ...but hurray for that later wake! Those are the best right? You just wake happier haha!

Well, I've recently needed some A time increase.... I had a small issue that happened with my mother in law when she watched him at BT while husband and I went for a little date night and grabbed some dinner out... Long story short, she kept him up and I had a tough week recovering him from that OT ..I was dealing with short naps (I've been blessed with him; he's rarely short napped) and ugh, mess. Well right now my biggest issue is he's waking 30 mins - 2/3hrs after I PD for BT... No matter his A times and even after pushing... I don't understand it at all... And usually I can handle him well.. But I'm super lost on that... But once he's resettled he stays asleep all night so not really "NWs" but those pesky wake ups shortly after I PD... I had a few EWs which is an indication too of the transition.. Like twice.

So that's our currently battle. He's been making it to a decent BT time of about 7pm or so, so we are more on 2 naps. I only CN if BT is too far out and I cap it too, to avoid a super late BT. I also won't CN after 6pm... But I haven't had to do a CN in awhile.. Usually days he EWs or short naps which stopped after last weeks mishap. So if I could just quit those pesky weird wakes right after BT; we'd be golden

[Mandy.kamal]

It's so hard when you want to have a night out and but come home to an OT baby!!

Hopefully yours stops that odd waking soon. But wow- congrats on the long nights!!! Not even wakes to nurse?! I feel like I'm so far off from that. We had about 2 weeks of sleeping completely through but that's all.

So for today I did 3 hour A times and got a 2 hour nap and 1.5hr nap. Her nap ended at 3:30 though so I guess I need to do 6:30 BT. Ugh. I dread doing earlier than 7:00. She will miss a feeding too so I'm trying to talk her up!! She likes a shorter A before bed but I'm going to try for 3 hours and just see how it goes....

[FPT23]

I was NOT pleased about that MIL incident to say the least haha!

I knooooooo I hope he does! I've increased A times which was the culprit before and still....! So odd! One day he will randomly stop I guess... Yeah usually after that first part of the strange wakes, he stays asleep. He does wake sometimes but not always... If he does he makes it to 5am ish....and I can't even lie I nurse back to sleep haha! It's always tricky at 5am... But other than that, 6/7am I guess. I don't like anything before 7am but DS1 will start kinder Monday... So might as well start loving it haha

Oh wow hurray on the good naps! I'm on 3 hrs at this point too but I don't know... I have this funny feeling he wants a tad more somewhere or he needs less daytime sleep. May cap to no more than 1.5hr naps. I don't mind short naps tbh though? Eh! I already have DS2! Haha I'm busy either way haha!

Good luck with BT! Me too haha!

[Mandy.kamal]

Wanted to post out last few days while I have a second. Definitely UT/OT loop. Can't seem to figure it out.

Up 6:00am
Nap 9:09-9:57, she resettled and b2s at 10:13-10:58
Nap 1:47-3:35
CN 5:25-5:45
BT 7:30
Great night, just one NW at 4:40 and fed. She woke at 6:48am but I gave her the paci and she slept until I woke her at 7:55am

Up 7:55
Nap 10:15-11:22 (should have pushed A time here)
Nap 2:02 (she was crying for bed) 2:49 woke crying. Resettled herself and b2s at 2:58-3:37
CN 5:20-5:35
BT 7:45
NW 3:00 and was very hungry

Up 6:00am
Nap 9:07-11:05
Nap 2:10-3:30
BT 6:30- she seemed OT
NW 8:00pm, 2:40, 3:30 (fed), 5:45 crying, up at 6:10 happy

Today
Up 6:10
Nap 9:05(OT crying)- 9:38 crying. I just resettled her and she went right back to sleep. So she's OT again for sure.

Anything jump out? Any suggestions?

[FPT23]

Thanks for her her EASY!

How old is she again, already?

Honestly I'm where you are at this point. Increasing A time has seemed to help. But also keeping track of naps. I try not to let him sleep passed 1.5hrs and I don't do the CN if it's going to go beyond 6pm... I am not a fan of anyhow fb earlier than 7 for BT but during this transition I think it's just trial and error.

I tbink she is in a loop of OT UT. That first day, her A times were short and she still napped well, and slept all night. Her next day, after such good rest, I wouldn't pushed A times (as you even said you should've) and you would've prb had a better first nap. Your CN come very early too. I would push A times despite OT. She will adjust- if not the loop will continue.

Few mins at a time for a few days. To where all her A time stay at or around the 3hr mark more or less by now. Some days you have her going down real soon- one of her CNs came less than 2hrs of A time. It's weird but that would be my suggestion!

What are your concerns to fix? Seems your nights have been great with the exception of that one

[Mandy.kamal]

She's almost 6.5 months

I'm just feeling like I need her caught up on sleep and have a 7:00am wakeup and then I will push A times. Just confusing because today she was horribly OT from 3hr A time after an okay night and happy 6:00am wakeup. She's exhausted now and it's only 1:00pm so I know I'll have to CN today.

Those CN just throw me completely off because I never know what time to do them and then never know how long or when to do BT after. So don't do a CN before 3 hrs A time? And then if it's 5:45-6:00 for example, what time would BT be?

Any advice on that?

So one-three NWs is normal at this age? My son slept through at 3 months and continued to do so from then on wth the occasional blip. This one has only STTN a handful of times right before this 3/2. Most people tell me that she shouldn't even be waking to eat still at the age much less the other resettled I have to do with the paci.

After I get through this 3-2 ut/OT loop, should I focus on sleep training her to self soothe? Prob PU/PD?

[Mandy.kamal]

So she woke up at 3:15pm from her second nap. She was really OT and woke 10 mins into it crying, then 30mins and then another time so I just held her back to sleep and she just woke at 3:15pm. Do I do BT at 6:15.....ugh. Or do a CN at 5:30 ish?

[FPT23]

But she's in a OT/UT loop. The only way is to continue to push when she's had good naps. But remember, gradually! ...not all at once.

A times are just a guideline. Not all babies will do exactly 3hr A time everytime. Yk? On short naps, I pull back a few minutes since he will be more tired from a short nap come the next A time, kwim? ...some babies can do 3.15/3.30 at this age, some less? It's just give or take on what you feel your baby needs. Sometimes it can be very confusing reading their signs. They seem OT but aren't. A number of things can bother them such as teething, over stimulation, or not enough... Discomfort due to introducing solids around this time. So just hang in there. I would def not be doing 2hr A times like you have, at this age. Your getting 6am happy wakes because she's UT from all her day sleep and short A times. That's the loop... So you have to push through. She will be OT slightly but it's how you get out of it. After a few days they adjust, I promise but always better pushing gradually by a few mins at a time than to just go all for it.

The CN at this stage is best given only when BT is too far out. Depending on naps that day or if the day started too early. If you feel she is incredibly OT, mom knows best , then I would opt for early bedtime rather than a CN. Night sleep is more restorative. EBT is best used during this time of transition and to catch babies up on OT, which happens when they are ready to drop a nap. For example if her last nap ends by 2:00 then you would want to CN around 4:30-5pm. Again, I do not know how much your LO can handle A time at the end of the day. All babies are different ...some can handle a longer A time to bed, and some need a shorter one. An idea that floats around is that baby does best on a 12 hr day... So if she wakes at 7am she should be in bed asleep by 7pm... In the perfect world ...but something to consider. Also, if she's waking at 6am happy and went to bed at 7pm the night before, technically thats 11hrs of sleep and wouldnt really be considered an EW.

What A time can she handle on a short nap? Usually if mine does an OT 30 min nap, instead of 3hr A time (asleep BY 3hrs. Not put down at the 3hr A time) I usually push back the next A time by 10 mins or so... Asleep BY 2.50hrs. Something like that.

Every baby is different so someone always has something to say ...keep in mind there is a growth spurt around this time! So if baby wakes at night, I would always feed. That's me. If he wakes, I'm feeding him. If after awhile I notice he's waking and BARELY eating, then I know it's not hunger and I would soothe in other ways. You said you don't mind the paci correct? Paci is a prop and until she learns how to replug, she might continue needing your help when she wakes nights. I think they are a great tool but if u wish to sleep train, that would mean removing the paci and have her find her own way to sleep. Also, babies wake around this time for a number of reasons-- teething starts around this time too. Expect NWs to happen from time to time. 1-2 can be very normal for many moms! Hang in there

Many Hugs! Let me know how it goes hope I was helpful!