Author Topic: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am  (Read 655 times)

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Offline katkniep

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I think i desperately need some help with our EASY! I'm not sure if we're experiencing problems because of the easy or something else! :'(

He's 4 months and is a very happy baby
He's both bottle and breast fed due to insufficient supply.
I've been trying to implement easy since week 10.
He is a big baby with macrosomia diagnosed before birth. At 4 months he's about 8.8kg.
He does take a dummy sometimes but generally spits it out.
Bedtime routine - changing into pjs, song, little book, bottle & breast.
Because of DD2, extending naps are just not possible. He does take 95% of naps in the bedroom.
I'm aiming for a 7-7 routine.

Problem:
My DS2 has restless sleep from 2am-6am or there abouts. I was able to bf him at night until a few weeks ago when this started, i think its because he's hungry... If i give him a bottle he starts chatting and grinning and then i give him the breast again to try and get him back to sleep but he just moves around and complains, i think he's sleeping but its like he's just about to wake up, so i give him the breast again to try and put him back to sleep and this repeats itself for about 4 hours every night. I am going slowly crazy :(


WU - 7.20am
E - 7.45am
A -
S - 9.10am

A - 9.53am
E - 10.45am
S - 11.33am (bad 11 mins sleep)

A - 11.45am
E - 1.30pm
A -
S - 1.19pm

E - 4.30pm
A -
S - 4.53pm

A - 5.35pm
Clusterfeed 5.45pm
E - 7.30pm

BT - 7.57pm

DF - 10-10.30pm (doesn't always work)

1/2am> CHAOS!! :(




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Re: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 08:44:13 am »
Hi there, sorry to hear you are so tired with long night shifts!

Couple of things to think about:
1. It looks like you are reliant on trying to get him back to sleep or in a better sleep through using the breast for comfort and that it is no longer working. I would suggest moving away from a feed to sleep prop at night and use another soothing method such as shush/pat so that he learns to self settle. This would improve his ability to sleep well at night in the long run. Also though if he is not crying out but just shuffling around in bed you can leave him to it.  He will let you know when you are needed by using his "I need you cry".

2. It looks like you are not reliant on a feed to sleep prop in the day time although your EASY looks like it might improve with a tweak.
At 4 months you can begin to move towards the 4hr EASY, there's some info here:
Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY
and even if he can't /doesn't move to a 4hrly E right away you might be able to extend it gradually as the link explains, say 3.5hr E. You can also increase the A time even if the E time needs to remain at 3hrs. You might find a 2hr first A time and 1hr 45-2hr second A time more successful in aiming for a longer nap.

I realise you have another child to care for and this makes nap extension difficult. I wonder if you might consider helping him through the sleep cycle transition for just the first nap of the day? You could go in at 35 mins into sleep and shush/pat him through for 5 or 10 mins which is shorter than the usual W2S timing but sometimes this is enough to help them re-settle before they fully wake.  What do you think?

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
 
A - 11.45am
E - 1.30pm
A -
S - 1.19pm
I assume here you mean the E was at 12.30pm not 1.30pm as he was asleep before 1.30pm.  This means he went 4hrs between E on this occasion (12.30 - 4.30) so he can go a longer stretch between eating sometimes.  I wonder how long he slept at that 1.19pm S though?

Hope this helps some.


Offline katkniep

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Re: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 11:49:05 am »
Hi :)

I was just feeding him at night, well i thought i was, and falling asleep on the job. I thought at night time its great if they sleep straight after a feed? I think he has started snacking at night though. I'll try nursing him, then bottle straight after if he's not gone back to sleep. We're trying to get him into his own bed as well as he's been mainly sleeping on the other side of our double bed whilst the DH sleeps on the sofa! This is likely why i'm waking up more from his faffing. My DH seems to be able to put him down using shh pat in his own bed with more success than me!

During the day he does also have a bit of a prop which i'm trying to wean him off as well using the removal technique. I'm bumping up the E straight away to 3.53. He was starting to take a bit less at feeds!

As soon as my DD2 is settled into the new kindergarten, my mornings will be totally free. I have been trying to resettle as much as poss but will make sure im there for the first one!

Ups yes that was meant to be 12.30. That sleep after was a massive 2h25!! In the past week he's been trying out long sleeps occasionall, usually he's a 30 min napper just like his sister was!




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Re: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 18:37:04 pm »
I thought at night time its great if they sleep straight after a feed?
Yes it is fine for them to go straight to sleep after a feed at night, some people find that LO fallign to sleep during the feed doesn't matter however I'd aim to have the feed finished then LO goes into the cot before falling to sleep if possible.

You might not be aware of your reliance on the feed to sleep prop, or emerging prop.  there are a couple of things you have described which led me to think *you* are using the breast or bottle in an attempt to get him to sleep if he doesn't settle.
If i give him a bottle he starts chatting and grinning and then i give him the breast again to try and get him back to sleep
Here perhaps I am mis-reading this but it sounds like he wakes and is hungry, that's fine he needs a night feed, you feed him (bottle or breast) and he is then to go to sleep, however he is not going to sleep so you pick him up again and give him the breast "to try to get him back to sleep".  Then again you say when he moves around and complains you "give him the breast again to try and put him back to sleep and this repeats itself for about 4 hours".  It reads as a prop or emerging prop.
A prop if often something a parent tries to make LO sleep even when it is not what LO needs or not what would be most helpful to everyone concerned in the long run.  If he was hungry he would eat but after he has eaten what he needs is sleep rather than more food.  He is not hungry for 4 hrs straight.
Do you see the difference between feeding for hunger (at something like 3hr intervals) and maybe LO falls to sleep right at the end of the feed (or after being put back in the cot) and offering the breast repeatedly through the night to try to make him sleep?
This is what I mean by prop and what I suggest you move away from.
Honestly I think when an 'easy' option is available at night such as BF it must be hard for you to move away from that.
Your DH has more success in putting LO to sleep in his cot using shush/pat because DH has no option, he has no breast to fall back on when he tires so has to keep at it.

Your eASY didn't look so much like you were feedign to sleep in the day, so if that's the case also then you can expect to see a big iprovement in sleep all around once the prop is removed and LO learns to self settle. xx


Offline katkniep

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Re: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 18:52:16 pm »
Thanks so much for all your help  :) I'm going to actually look at the clock every time he wakes tonight, i'm so tired that whole period is one big fuzzy mess. Maybe he do
He is however now laying in his bed, asleep  ;D he had the breast to just get a bit sleepy, then i picked him up and shh patted, he was not happy, but, i did it, last night as well  ;D He's been going down all day with the DH so i feel like there is some progess here!
I think you are correct with it becoming/being a prop, my mum died when he was 5 weeks old and i was doing everything to get him to sleep to get me time. I thought i was catching him at night before he really woke up, but when i try to clearly think, its not been working!
His sister gave up on the breast at 4 months so i never experienced these problems! (You helped me also with DD1 back in 2014!!)

xx




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Re: EASY tweaking for 4 month old? - restless sleep between 1/2am-7am
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 19:01:11 pm »
It sounds like you are making great progress :)

I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your mum, that is obviously very very hard. Many hugs honey.

We all do what we need to do to get through, sometimes we know what we are doing, sometimes perhaps we fall into it as it seems the best thing at the time - if it's what we need to do then it's what we need to do, better to have a LO with a million props than one who has been left alone to cry it out, hey?  Props can be weaned, don't worry.

You helped me also with DD1 back in 2014!
Wow! I should say welcome back then :)