How do I transition to STTN?

[oceanrachel]

I have a 6.5 month old and we have been doing the PU/PD method for about 4 months. I'm ready to not wake up during the night (normally it is 2-3 times)! Not sure how to begin the transition. Thanks

[FPT23]

Hi there and welcome to BWF!! Super exciting getting new moms and growing the support! Hope you enjoy the forums and find any help you may need with your little one! again, welcome!

First of all, very sorry to hear about the night wakes! Around this time, baby is making many changes. Teething begins more or less (for some!) and you also start nap transitioning too. I'm right there with ya! I have a 6 mo as well!

Is there a way you can possibly post hot EASY routine in the EASY format? Might help loads to see how your days normally go. More or less something like:

E 7
A
S 10-11:30

E 11:30
A
S 2:30-3:30

E 3:30
A
S 6:30/7pm bedtime

Normally PU/PD is used as a last resort method. There are more gentler ways and sometimes their daytime routine just needs a little tweaking and it can help out those NWs. A lot goes into play as well, such as, if baby sleeps independently... Has baby been taught how to self settle, etc.

Another thing to keep in mind, there is a growth spurt around this time and babies can begin to wake out of hunger... There are ways to handle that as well.

Solids are also introduced which can begin to possibly cause a little tummy discomfort...

Many things happening around this time! so let's see what's going on and maybe we can help those NWs! I know how tiring they can be!

Hugs!

[oceanrachel]

Thanks so much. Yes I'm sure more information would be helpful. I'm super bummed to hear that PUPD is a last resort. I read the Baby Whisperer Book and thought that was the method.



Here is a general schedule, although her naps vary a lot still, anywhere from 30min-2.5 hours (mostly 30-45 minutes).

E between 6:00 and 7, still varies a bit when she wakes up
A
S about 9:30

E 10:15
A
S 1:00

E 3:00
A
S 8:00 Bedtime

Sometimes we squeeze in a 4th nap, but she fights it pretty hard if it's late in the day.

She has also been getting hungry between feedings during her activity time and rubbing her head on my breasts, so I feed her also during those times. Not all the time, but whenever she does that. We're just starting to introduce solids, mostly just rice cereal and breastmilk mix so far.

She is also experiencing a lot of Separation Anxiety right now. She is sort of teething, but we stared that at 3.5 months

Thanks so much for any advice or help you can give. I appreciate it

[FPT23]

Hi! Yes thank you for your post

PU/PD is in the book but Tracy suggests doing shh/pat method as it is gentler. If after a good routine is in place and baby just needs some sleepy training and shh/pay didn't work, then PU/PD.

Based on your EASY routine, a few things jump out. First, what do you mean a 4th nap? Do you still do 3 naps? Or 4? ...at this age your looking at the 3-2 nap transition. Also, I assume her first nap is 9:30-10:15? According to your EASY?  Just want to make sure I'm reading it right

So, that morning wake up is important. At her age appropriate A times is somewhere between 3hrs-3.15. Of course all babies are different. That's just a guideline... BUT if your LO is giving you a short morning nap, it's time to push that A time... If she woke at 7am her first nap should land around 10am... Give or take. 45 min naps are a sign of under tiredness. 30 mins or so are normally overtired. I would try to work with her A times. I'm going to provide you with the A times link just as a resource to look back on. I still refer back to it myself

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

What is going on is she has a short morning nap because she needs more time uo but that last push to BT gets her OT and gets her in this vicious loop! Having said that, her A time to bedtime is very far apart. You have her up 5hrs before bedtime. I would aim for 3hrs between her days for now. See how that works for you. Since she's already been on the high end of A times, maybe she can handle 3hrs well? You may want to work with her to figure out what works. Her NWs can be due to her being overtired. You may need to just play around w those A times a bit. Gradually work with each A time and not all at once. Gentle ....maybe the rubbing her face on you is because she's tired, possibly?

I do understand the separation anxiety. I read somewhere that it peaks now but it's not full on an issue until a bit older? Not sure how true that is haha but I too thought the same when my 6mo started NWing and refusing BT... Only. All day he's fine until BT hit... But he would wake like 30-1hr after I PD or just give me a hard time... I wondered the same so that is also something else to consider!

How often do you give cereal? I would continue to feed on demand as often as she needs. A nursing baby is normal to have 1-2 NWs to eat, or so I've seen floating around here often. My LO sometimes wakes to eat too and I just nurse to be honest. Haha

If you find she might be teething just medicate before BT, in case it could be that!

Work with that routine a bit- every baby is different but here are some sample routines for her age if you need a better idea

chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

Also, I'm going to provide the link for the 3-2 nap transition.... pretty tricky time! They sometimes need that 3rd nap but they refuse to take it or it pushes bedtime too late haha this phase will pass! If you need it, I'll provide you with it as well:

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Hope the advice I provided can help you in some way!!

[oceanrachel]

Thank you so much, that is super helpful. I think I've just been waiting to see her tired signs and not really watching the clock as well. That was really helpful in the beginning and I'm glad you sent the link to the awake time guidelines.

Yes she will still take 3 sometimes 4 short naps in a day, but I will definitely read up on the 3-2 transition and see if that helps.

I am just feeding her once a day with the rice cereal right now, and she's just getting used to the new consistency.

And just to clarify. The shh/pat method is the same as the pu/pd in terms of how it works, you just pat them instead of picking up. Do you then stop and leave the room when they are calmed down, or are you supposed to stay and keep patting. I've been attempting to do this more the last week or so, instead of picking her up and I'm a little confused.

Thanks so much for your advice!

Are you also doing the dream feed with your 6 month old? I haven't really done that yet. But this past week, I have been putting her back to sleep without feeding her around her midnight waking and she had been fine. Just trying to figure this sleep thing out:)

[ireneasheard]

Not much to add just that the last part of your routine awake 3-8pm? Seems like a long time to be awake when earlier in the day it is only 3-4 hours? If your little one is awake 6-7am then BT at 8pm is quite late as it would make for a 13-14 hour day? Wonder if bringing bedtime forward would help as this would mean your little one is then automatically doing 2 sleeps and no more nap. Agree working with A times will sort out rest of the day.

[FPT23]

Your very welcome!

She should be dropping to 2 naps a day here soon. The reason for the short naps is simply fixing her A times. Also, does she self soothe?

Shh/pat is gentler than PU/PD and shh/pat is a way to teach self soothing easier. It is meant so that you can help from the crib and not continue and fall asleep in your arms, kwim? PU/PD is more of a ST method too but when all else hasn't worked... It can also be very stimulating for older babies I believe. I think once you settle her A times... You'll see you wont need to do so much on your end !! Work with her daytime routine for the next few days! As I mentioned above, that long A time to BT is too much for her age and that first nap might be coming to soon, hence the 45 min napping.

No I never did the DF with DS2. I tried 3xs but it wasn't for him. Disrupted his sleep more. DS1 did use it! Guess it depends babies haha!

dont worry you'll figure out the sleep thing we all do eventually hehe! Your doing great and I hope those links help! I refer to them often myself xo!