Lots and lots of NWs. 8.5mo. Help me pretty please!

[kjr928]

Hi there,
Honestly I'm not even 100% sure she has reflux - although when I increased her Zantac just as a precaution to 1.5ml twice a day she immediately slept a little better. Of course it could have been one of her front teeth breaking through. It seems there are so many things going on at once I can't tell what is causing what and what is helping/hurting what. Reflux, Zantac, teething, solids, BF refusal, NW, etc.

I will most definitely keep track of what's going on for a couple of days and post. I really hope I can get to the bottom of this. Thank you so much.

[Palmira78]

Hello! It sounds really tricky and I understand how tough this must be for you. I am referring to the breast feeding issue.
I also breastfeed so here goes my suggestion. Have you considered to nurse during the day in a totally dark room, in silence with a relaxed atmosphere? Sometimes the LOs are too distracted or excited to focus on nursing. I had occasionally that issue and even once I received a bite!!!
Can you reproduce the conditions when your LO nurses happily, but in the daytime? May be that could help.
When your LO wakes up from a nap, if he is awake but still a little bit drowsy could be a good moment to try and nurse him, perhaps...

[Scottishmummy]

Could the BF refusal be teething related? Mine pulled away from feeds when teething, especially with the top teeth.

Alternatively, how are you balancing daytime BF with solids? Could she be filling up on solids and therefore be too full for BF??

Also agree with pp suggestions to reduce distractions, if that seems to be an issue.

[kjr928]

Hi all, I tried to track my routine for the last few days to put here. It's easier said than done! I will also try your suggestion of reducing distractions when I try to bf. I'll basically try anything that's within my power! I am really not a happy camper these days and it makes it really hard to be a good mommy like this. 

Anyway, please have a look and let me know if anything is glaring. i put dotted lines down after I put DD to bed at night, to indicate where the NWs begin. Please note how much she is waking up at night and how short her BFs are (and how many are refused). 

12a BF
1a BF
1:15a hold
2:30 BF (pacifying - not really eating)
4:15 BF (pacifying)
5:30 BF (pacifying)
5:45 hold
6a bring into bed
-------------
7a BF (2-3 min)
9a breakfast (cereal & fruit)
10:15-12 nap
12:45p BF (2-3 min)
1:30p lunch (veg & chicken)
2:30-4p nap
4:15 BF (3-4min)
6p dinner (chicken)
7p BF refused
7:15 Zantac & Advil
7:30 BF (2 min)
7:45 bed
-----------------
9:20p plug w pacifier
10:30 BF
12:30 reject BF
12:40 BF
2:45 change leaked diaper & BF
6a BF
--------------
7:45 awake
8:30a BF
9a breakfast (cereal & fruit) Zantac
10-11:30a nap
11:45 BF (2 min)
12:30p lunch (veg & fruit)
3:15-4:45p nap
5:30p Zantac & dinner (veg & beef)
8pm bed
---------------
10p BF (10 min)
1a BF
3a (?) BF
6a bf
-------------
7a awake & bf (refused)
9a breakfast (cereal & fruit)
9:45-11:30 nap
11:45a bf (1-2 min)
12p lunch (fruit & veg - did not eat well)
2:15-4p nap
4:15 bf (refused)
5p dinner (chicken & veg - did not eat well) Zantac & Advil
6p bf (refused)
7p bf (refused)
7:15p bed
*NOTE: she basically fussed/cried from 4p-7p*
---------------
7:30p bf (4-5 min)
8:45p replug paci
9:45p bf (10 min)

[kjr928]

Ok - so she fussed and cried from about 4-7pm. Nothing would make her happy. Put her to bed a little bit early around 7:15. She went down easily, but then started waking up.

7:30p bf (4-5 min)
8:45p replug paci
9:45p bf (10 min)
11:30p bf (2 min)
1a bf (2min)
3:15 bf
3:45 hold
4am

So now it's 4am and she just started up again. I guess she's just going to cry now every 15 minutes or something?! I want to blow my brains out right about now.

I think she settled herself back to sleep without me going in, but I'm getting to the point tonight where I don't really feel like I can help her, and I'm going to have to let her cry. If that is the case I will sit with her in her room and comfort her as best I can.

I just cannot keep waking up every 1-2 hours like this. It's been going on way too long, and I really don't know how to help her at this point.

[kjr928]

Omg. Now it's 4:45 and here she goes again.  I feel like I should just get up for the day. That would be easier than waking up over and over like this. Actually, that's not entirely true since I haven't even fallen back to sleep yet from the last one. 

[kjr928]

It's almost morning now. I've basically been awak since 3am. The baby doesn't stop crying. I gave up on BFing her for the night. If she cries I just pick her up and hold her. She settles down, I put her in her crib and then I'm lucky if she goes 5 minutes without crying again.

[Lindsay27]

Oh hun I'm so sorry you've had such a rough night! Do you have anyone who can help take care of your LOs today while you catch a nap?  I know how hard it is to be that tired, hang in there . Does she take a paci at all? Or have some kind of comfort item that can help settle her in the night?  Also, does is seem like she's in any pain or discomfort? Last question (lol), when she wakes is she crying or just fussing?  I know with both mine I had a habit of running in too quickly without allowing them time to settle on their own.

Thanks for posting your day(s), it is very helpful and a few things jump out.  She is taking good naps which is great, but I actually wonder if she's getting too much day sleep and not enough A time.  I believe our DDs are close in age?  We generally have a max of 2.5hrs day sleep so I am wondering if possibly one of the naps needs to be capped?  I generally don't let her nap later than 4pm, otherwise it affects nights.  The other thing is, and I know you have school run to work around, however some of the A times (the 2nd one I think) seem to be on the short side, sometimes 2.5hrs after a good nap, followed by another good nap, so that would likely create some UT which can cause NW.  Do you think you can stretch her longer to more like 3-3.5hrs and still work withing school times?

[creations]

Oh I'm so sorry top read about your awful night!

You've had great routine advice from Lindsay who has a LO much closer in age so really I'm just stopping by to pass on a hug and the hope that you can get someone to stand in for you at some point in the day so you can have some sort of rest/recovery.
hugs

[kjr928]

Hi there,thanks for your response. I haven't been around because (surprise!) I got sick. Laryngitis, bronchitis, and terrible cough, congestion and sinus pain. Now I'm on antibiotics. I guess it was inevitable, the way I've been living lately.

Anyway, to answer your questions: yes, she does take a paci. Sometimes I can just plug her and she'll settle down again, sometimes not. No other comfort item really. I think she may have had discomfort with her top teeth coming in. They have broken through now, and she is sleeping a little bit better at night. And for your last question, when she wakes up she is CRYING. If she's just fussing, she can resettle herself or I can replug her. When she's crying, she either needs BF or to be cuddled.

I am going to take another look at my naps. I think I am generally going over 2.5 hrs. So I will try to modify it and keep it at 2.5 max during the day.

Each day that passes by I am believing more and more that her BFing issue is also contributing to the problem. She physically pushes away from me during the day. I think a lot of it is because of my other 2 kids, who are constantly interfering, screaming, and fighting with each other. And they follow me all over the house so I can't seem to get away from them to bf either. They just barge right in. Additionally, it's hard to leave them alone together because they fight so much anyway. So I think DD needs to "catch up" at night. ☹️️ I don't know what to do about this.

On a positive note, we're doing a little "better". And by "better" I mean that she is waking up EVERY TWO HOURS all night long instead of like every 45 minutes or whatever. I just really hate my life lately. 😢

[Lindsay27]

Hugs hun!! I am sick myself so I know how drained you get when caring for LOs and being up all night, you must be shattered!  How old are your other LOs? Can you set them up with an activity/show/iPad while you feed?  I have to take my DD to a dark room, blinds closed or she gets too distracted and DS usually plays on the iPad during that time.  What about adding BM to solids to get more calories into her that way?  Sorry if you already answered this but how frequently are you attempting to feed in the day?

I imagine if she is napping over 2.5hrs in the day she is likely playing catch up from rough nights, so if you feel she really needs it then don't cap, last thing you want is a miserable OT baby. 

[kjr928]

Hi there,
Something wonderful happened a couple of days ago - after bed at 7:30, she woke up at 9:30 & 11:30, and I thought "oh great, here we go again". But then she slept until 4am, and then didn't wake up again until morning. So the next day I just felt like a million bucks (except for the laryngitis & cough). The next night she woke up twice after midnight.

I've been paying close attention to her naps to try and keep it at 2.5 hrs max, and I'm *trying* to bf her better. Ordinarily I try to bf her when she wakes in the morning, after nap, and before bed. I think she does bf better if I keep her in her quiet room without all the distractions. I don't know how easily I can maintain that going forward though. I also quit my two glasses of wine with dinner for the last couple of days to see if that helps. Of course, now if she really does get better I won't know if it's the naps or the bf or the wine!

Anyways, it's 11:30pm now. I can hear her starting up. I'll see what happens and then I'm off to bed. Goodnight and thanks for your help!

[Lindsay27]

How's it going hun? I just wanted to share this link which has some good information re: BF and alcohol consumption.  You are right it is hard to tell what is contributing to the better nights, but it sounds like she is BF better during the day which is definitely going to help!  It may be possible the wine with dinner was changing the taste of your milk so perhaps she wasn't taking a good BT feed?  Anyway, some helpful info to read through

https://www.laleche.org.uk/alcohol-and-breastfeeding/

[kjr928]

Hi there,

Things are kind of "stable" right now at about 2 wake ups per night. Once in a while it's 3, but mostly just 2. I haven't really been drinking (even though lord knows I need to! Ha ha). So I don't know if that helped or her teeth coming through or a better sched or what.

I'm trying to keep it to a max of 2.5 hours nap during the day.
My EASY looks something like this now:
7:30 wake & bf
9 breakfast
10-11 nap
12 bf
12:30 lunch
3 - 4:30nap
4:30 bf
5:30 dinner
8:30 bed

Then she usually starts fussing around 11 or midnight, but mostly settles herself back down. Sometimes I need to go in. Then I end up going in there usually twice in the middle of the night.

It's difficult navigating naps because of all the school schedules. BFing is still difficult but she's doing a little better today. Not much.

Thanks for the link about alcohol. I will check it out. Let me know if you see anything that I can improve to make these NW go away! Thank you!!!