Author Topic: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?  (Read 1558 times)

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Offline Ulrica83

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9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« on: September 11, 2016, 06:35:24 am »
Hi everyone,

We have a lovely 9 month old baby boy and we've been on the EASY routine since he was 8 weeks old. It has literally saved our lives (or at least our marriage)..  ;) DS had a rough start regarding sleep, but has STTN since he was 5 months old. (Although we've given him a dream feed at around 10 pm every night, and still do.)

This past couple of weeks we're starting to have some sleep issues, mainly in the afternoons/evenings. We're trying really hard to go from 3 naps to 2, it's been bouncing back and forth from day to day - and we can't quite get there! I would really appreciate your opinions on our EASY routine:

(Past three days)

WU: 6 am
E: 7 am (solids)
S: 8.30 am (super tired, falls a sleep independently within 5 minutes. No paci but has a lovey blanket.)

W: 10 am
E: 10.30 (solids)
E: 12.30 (formula, 5 oz)
S: 1 pm (same as above)

W: 2 pm
E: 3 pm (solids)
S: 4.30 pm (super tired, crying, standing up in the crib, screams if I/DH leave the room. One of us sits there, use soothing words and gently lays him down when he stands up. DS sleeps maybe for 10 minutes, wakes up screaming and is still very tired.)

W: 5.10 pm
E: 6 pm (formula, 5 oz)
BT: 6.15 pm
DF: 10 pm

Why is he napping so well during the day and then can't seem to fall a sleep in the evening? How do we get rid of the third nap? Now we struggle for 40 minutes to get him to sleep for 10.. Should we push the A times even further earlier in the day? He's old enough to handle more than 3 hours of A time, right? We add maybe 5 minutes per A time every other day, more than that and I think DS will be very OT.

Any advice? Thank you!  :)

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2016, 11:53:48 am »
Hello! My DD is the same age and I think you hit the nail on the head, more A time is definitely needed, we easily do an A time of up to 3.5hrs.  This is a nice guideline to go by: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

He is napping well during the day, however he is likely treating that first nap as night sleep and having the nap so early in the day is perpetuating the cycle and need for 3 naps.  I would start by pushing the the first A time, and honestly I would try to do it in bigger chunks than 5mins, as I don't think that's going to get you where you need to be fast enough.  He may seem tired at 8:30 but it's likely simply because he is used to napping at that time.  Try pushing by 15mins at a minimum, he should be able to fairly easily handle a 3hr A. 

2 examples of what we do:

WU 7
Nap 10-11
Nap 2:30-4
BT 7:30

WU 7
Nap 10:30-12
Nap 3:15/3:30-4
BT 7

What do you think?



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 12:22:58 pm »
Thank you for your quick reply!

Yes, as we thought, we need to increase A times. I guess we just got stuck on 2,5+3+3 hrs A time since he napped/fell a sleep so easily and napped for 1,5 hrs + STTN. But we definitely need to make a change since it's not working anymore..  ;)

Today I pushed the first A time by 15 min, and he only napped 45 min.. Then he was so tired after 2 hrs 45 min, so we put him down again. That nap only lasted 50 min. So, I guess he'e just not used to it yet?

If he only naps for 45 min, do we still keep him up for 3 hrs? To break the cycle?

Regards,

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 13:34:27 pm »
It can definitely take a few days before things work themselves out and often (at least in our case) the first A tends to be slightly shorter than the rest, but it stills needs to be long enough to avoid EWs and so it isn't treated as night sleep.  After a short nap I reduce the next A slightly, but only by maybe 15mins.  It might be a bumpy few days while he is trying to work things out but hopefully that first naps will extend and then you can hopefully get onto 2 naps.



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2016, 11:25:09 am »
Sorry for the late reply.. And thank you again for your advice!

So, these last couple of days: we pushed the first A time to 2 hrs 45 min. He was super tired the last 20 minutes or so, but has actually managed to sleep for 1,5 hrs. The second A time is now 3 hrs, aiming for 3 hrs 15 minutes tomorrow. He has had great afternoon naps for 3 days now. No crying or fussing - nothing. Just put him down for the second nap today, he fell asleep on his own within 1 minute.

Yesterday the third A time was 3 hrs 45 minutes, of which 30 minutes was in his bed fussing before finally falling asleep. He wasn't crying, just babbling to himself. So, to our surprise, he wasn't OT and actually slept until 6.30 this morning! The latest WU for him (and us) in three weeks!

I can't believe what a huge difference just tweaking those A times makes. It was the exact same situation for us during the 4 month sleep regression.. When we thought he was OT, he was actually UT - and therefore crying before falling asleep.

So, now we're on our 4:th day with only 2 naps. Still an early BT at around 6-6.30, but I guess that can be pushed to 7-7.30 as he manages longer A times?

Can I also ask, when is it time to get rid of the dream feed? We still feed him at around 10.30 pm (4-5 oz), and with that he sleeps until morning without any wake ups. He is a bit "under weight", so I would like to keep it just for the calories.. But are we creating a bad habit?

I can't thank you enough for listening and taking the time to share your experience!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 12:06:44 pm »
Fabulous update!! So happy things are going well!  Yes, bedtime will eventually move out once he is handling longer As.  BT here is 7pm though sometimes earlier or later depending on naps.

If using the DF gets him through until morning then I would probably just keep it.  My motto tends to be "if it ain't broke don't fix it" lol.  I never did the DF with either of my kids to be honest so I am not sure what is "normal" in terms of dropping it, is he well established on solids? Are you BF or FF? If using a bottle do you know how many oz he takes in a day?



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 07:42:37 am »
Yes, it is amazing! I never would have thought it would improve so much..

He was EBF until 6 months, when he decided to quit himself. He now eats solids throughout the day and formula in the evening+DF, which adds up to 5+5 oz. Gaining weight slowly, but is still on the lower side of the chart.. But he's super tall, so maybe the calories goes in to his height? ;)

So, we will probably keep the DF for some time yet. Tried to go without it yesterday, he woke up at 4 am - crazy hungry! So we fed him, he fell asleep until 6.30. But better to feed at 10 pm than 4 am.. Right?  ;D

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 11:20:42 am »
Just want to clarify that you are not giving any formula feeds during the day? Solids are meant to compliment bottle feeds, not replace them so I would absolutely add some bottles during the day.  The minimum amount he would be drinking per day is 18oz so I think if you add more bottles his weight will increase.  You can also add formula mixed in with solids to get more calories in.  My DD is down to 3 bottles per day but any LOs at this age are still taking 4 feeds at roughly 7, 11, 3, 7.

We do:
7am - 7oz (she doesn't always drink it all and the remaining goes into her cereal)
8am - solids

12pm - solids
2pm - 7oz

5pm - solids
7pm - 7oz



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 11:30:43 am »
Oh, I'm sorry, I was being unclear! The formula that he drinks is in the evening + dreamfeed, in addition to formula that he gets mixed with his solids. I'm guessing he has roughly 3 oz of formula with each solid meal, which adds up to 9-12 oz.. Plus 10 oz in the evening, so about 20 oz a day?

In addition to this, we add a neutral oil (sunflower), about 1 table spoon with each meal, as our pediatrician recommended. It's a bit different here i Sweden, most children only BF or FF up to 6 months of age..

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 12:23:39 pm »
Ah, okay...I figured I was missing something! Lol



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 05:35:38 am »
Hello again!

Do you have any advice regarding early wake ups? Since we adjusted the routine, naps during the day and his night sleep are great. BUT he has started waking up at 5 am, every day these past two weeks.. Zzzz.

So, we've reached A times of 2.75 + 3.25 + 3.75 hrs. He now naps 1.5 + 1.5 and sleeps 10.5-11 hrs at night. The only "missing link" now is EW.. We leave him be for 1 hr, and he just babbles and is all happy - but after that he gets a bit frustrated.

So, yesterday and today I tried feeding him - he only took 1 oz, but fell asleep for maybe 30 more minutes. Fair enough, but that makes it difficult to calculate when he "really" woke up, yk? So I don't know when exactly to put him down for the first nap..?

Should we push the first A time even further? Any other suggestions how to make our LO sleep until at least 6 am?

Thank you!

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 12:51:29 pm »
So EWs are typically caused by 2 things: either not enough A time in the morning (first A) or too much day sleep.  I think in your case it really could be either, my DD is down to around 2.5hrs day sleep and her first A is usually about 3.15/3.5hr.  I would maybe try pushing that first A for a start as it is on the low side and see what happens.  If nothing changes then I would also start capping one of the naps.



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2016, 13:31:50 pm »
Thanks, again! And sorry for the late feedback, these past few days have been hectic..  ;)

We pushed the first A time today, to 3 hrs. LO was a bit upset when I put him down, but fell asleep within 10 minutes. Slept for 40 min, "talked" for a couple of minutes, then slept for 1 more hour. So it was OK!

Second A time now 3,5 hrs and third A time 3,5-4 max. Naps are generally 1-1,75 hrs. Still waking up between 5.30 - 6 am, so I will keep trying to push the first A time. What is the "goal" A time here?

Total nap length during the day is about 2,75-3 hrs, so maybe we can start capping one of the naps eventually..

For how long do we keep pushing the A times? Do you ever reach "steady state"?  ;) Or is it only when you're finally down to just 1 nap?

Offline Lindsay27

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2016, 13:47:04 pm »
It sounds like you are doing great!

Second A time now 3,5 hrs and third A time 3,5-4 max. Naps are generally 1-1,75 hrs.
This is generally what we do as well.  At this age you tend to get 1 longer nap and 1 shorter one.

Still waking up between 5.30 - 6 am, so I will keep trying to push the first A time. What is the "goal" A time here?
EWs tend to be caused by a few things - not enough A time in the morning (1st A), and/or too much day sleep.  I'm not so sure there is a "goal" A time to be honest, at this stage I find LOs vary drastically.  My DD will still take a really good morning nap after a 3.15hr A time while others need a good 4hr A, yk?

Total nap length during the day is about 2,75-3 hrs, so maybe we can start capping one of the naps eventually..
Yes I find I have to keep the day sleep around 2.5hrs otherwise we get BT battles, NW, or EWs, so you may find you soon need to start capping.

For how long do we keep pushing the A times? Do you ever reach "steady state"?   Or is it only when you're finally down to just 1 nap?
Yes honestly I don't find that things stabilize for long before they need to be changed up a bit, until the drop to 1 nap where that pretty much sticks for the next 1-2 years.  I usually keep A times the same until the nap(s) get short, and then I push them.  But that said, we do 1 long nap and 1 short one, so I just kind of gauge the day based on how the first nap went, if it was good then I cap the second nap, if not then I let the second nap be and don't let her sleep later than 4pm.



Offline Ulrica83

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Re: 9 month old - sleeping issues. Tweak the routine?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2016, 13:15:38 pm »
Amazing tips, again, thank you!

These past two days have been amazing. LO slept until 7 am this morning, yay!

We will keep track of A times and push them further when naps start to shorten..

I bet you will hear from me again soon.  ;)