To dream feed or not to dream feed?

[ladymugg]

Hey team

Our DS was needing 4-hourly feeds in the night up until recently.  What changed?  Well we were doing a dream feed (mostly in response to waking for a feed at around 10.30/11 pm) at around 10 pm and then one night hubby and I went for an early night, set an alarm for the DF to keep things consistent (but it didn't go off).

Baby slept til 12 am!

So we gave missing it a go for a few days and saw much improved night feeds.

Fast forward to about 3 weeks later, 5 mo DS is now sleeping from around 6.30 pm to around 2 am each night.  Which gives a 7ish hour stretch.

Would you consider reinstating the dream feed in the hope of getting a 7-ish hour + streak to about 5/6 am, therefore eliminating his other night feed at around 5 am?

A bit confused about this one and I know I could just give it a go and see but a bit scared of stuffing with something that is so far a bit of a win!

A local baby-store retailer who offers online sleep advice/coaching told me that my baby should be STTN by now, especially as he is 10kg+, so I should be DF and then resettling for any waking around 4/5 am.  Confused as last month they said a baby of that size its quite normal to have 4 hourly wakings.  WHAT IS IT PEOPLE?!

ARGH.

Any ideas please?
 

[FPT23]

Hi! Lovely to hear about the longer stretch of sleep! At least things have improved

I would not add the DF again if he has been going on without it. It means he just doesn't need it. Is baby BF or FF? I still believe one NF is still very possible at this age. Matter a fact mine still was too and eventually that 2am feed faded on its own.

Is he getting enough in his day? Just to make sure he's not making up for it at night. Also, when you feed at night, how much does he take and does he down the bottle or merely a few sips?

I think a baby should always be fed on demand. I know there's a lot of "babies should be" by certain ages but all of them are different. If baby wakes due to hunger, feed. Once it has been officially ruled out that it is not hunger,  maybe taking a look at his daily routine can help the NWs... if all else is good- a gentle method of ST may help with that one NF

Xo!

[ladymugg]

Hi there

Thanks for your response.  I may have spoken too soon.  Since my original post, he went back to waking at around 10.30/11 pm at night for three nights in a row, draining a whole bottle.  Last night woke at 1.40am; the previous night around 2.30am.  We restarted the DF last night to see if it made a difference and we could get to that 3/4 am mark... not a chance!!!

He definitely takes a large bottle (240ml) for whenever he wakes first in the night.  The second waking (usually 4 hours after the first night feed) he can do anywhere from 200 to 100 mls.  Formula fed.

I guess I'll keep trying with the dream feed now and see if it makes a difference.  Frustrated as my older child was sleeping much much longer stretches in the night by now!  Argh!

He drinks a LOT during the day too (and has been on two feeds of solids a day for the past few weeks) and is a large baby.  Hard one as I'd love to "tank him up" more but he is a big drinker anyway so its hard to give him extra when he already has so much... there just isn't room around bedtime.

Any further thoughts appreciated but thank you for your response.

[FPT23]

Oh so sorry! It will pass!

If he went without the DF, I wouldn't give it to him and encourage a habitual wake if he had already been fine without it, taking longer stretches. If he wakes, I would try to resettle. If he's downing full bottles, he might just need to eat. It's normal to still feed at nights at this age, I feel. Especially if he's taking them full!

Have you tried to increase his daily oz? See if that helps?

How about we take a peak at his daytime routine too- could you post your EASY?

I know how frustrating it could be but ALL babies are different! My first had 1 NF (FF) until he was 9 months. So he didn't sleep through until then- he also had the DF until it kind of just faded on it's own. Like you, one night we didn't do it and he slept through. When I realized he was not eating at his NF when he was 9mths, I ended up trying to resettle (took an eternity haha!) and after that he never woke. He was ready and it was more habitual then. He was older and not downing it. DS2 on the other hand is BF and has been sleeping through from about 4.5-5mths on. He still has his occasional wakes, like all do but he's just been a better overall easier sleeper haha!

Hang in there mama xo

[ladymugg]

Thanks!

I guess my confusion also relates to the fact that he seems to be absolutely starving at this 10.30/11pm wake up.  I was prepared to resettle when he woke at that time the night previous (we dream fed at 10pm last night) but he was hungry. So confusing!!

His daily oz - now that's an interesting one.  Am working on the 3-2 nap transition at the moment so bottles are getting more and more stretched apart.  He takes full bottles but oddly it takes him longer for his hunger to kick in after waking.  Does that sound weird?  Previously was on a 4 hour EASY but now more like 4.5 and doesn't wake up screaming with hunger!?!  He takes the 9oz Phillips Avent bottles (nearly to the top) each feed.  He takes longer to feed, like he might split it up (day feeds) where as previously he would just down it in one hit. 

Then when its gone he still seems hungry (not EVERY time, sometimes theres 1oz left) and then there's that dilemma. Do you go and make up more (and by the time you do they've lost interest)!? Hahaha.  I actually wonder (reluctantly, as he is my 2nd and final baby so I want to get RID of baby gear not buy more - lol) if I need to buy 1 or 2 11oz bottles just so I'm sure he's had enough during the day.

Anyway his EASY:

6 am WU (lately been more like 5.30am but daylight saving starts this weekend and I think its cos its getting super light outside)
6.30 am E - 250ml/8oz
9 am S
10.30/11 am E - 250ml/8oz
Try to do solids sometime before the next sleep
1.30 pm S
3.30pm E - 200/7oz
4.30pm CN (depending on how short previous sleep was)
Solids in here usually around 5 pm, depending on CN or not
6.15 pm E - 100-250ml 4-8oz depending on hunger
6.30 pm lights out

Night wakings
10.30/11 pm WU/E - 8oz
2 am - WU/E - 4oz
5.30 am/6 am WU for day

Up until 3-4 days ago NW was 1.30 am - 8oz then 4.30 am - small bottle (4oz) and then babbling and chatting non stop.  The 3-2 transition seems to have cut this babbling out.

[FPT23]

Hi there

Ok well for one, I would make his room pitch black soon to avoid the EW.

For the most part his routine seems pretty good. A little on the high end of those A times for his age but in never recommend on shortening it UNLESS he's seemingly OT. How is he when you settle him for naps? Also, that last bottle of the day, is he falling asleep ON the bottle or does he settle independently at BT? Again, his A times seem a bit long for his age, and even though he's still transitioning from 3-2 it doesn't mean he's done with 3 naps. It's a process that takes awhile. The unsettling at night sometimes can be due to OT from the day or UT as well. Crazy I know ...but just keep these suggestions in mind but again I ask, does he fall asleep at the bottle or can settle independently on his own?  

TBH, he eats a lot so I wouldn't increase anything anymore. If he's DOWNING the bottle then just go ahead and keep on. If settling wasn't working and he seemed super hungry then go ahead and feed. However, I do want to add that you re-evaluate that DF because according to your EASY, its only been 3 hrs before his last feed, more or less. He eats around 6:15/6:30pm and then wakes to eat at 10/10:30pm....the reason why,  in my biast opinion, I fell he does not need that feed is because during the day he goes between 4-4.5 hrs and he's happy.. correct? You mentioned he goes that long and he's content... so it doesn't make much sense that he's waking to eat 3hrs at night for it. If for a few nights he went straight to 1:30-2am for a feed... then that's why I don't think he needs it. Of course this is just opinions here, but mom knows best always

It's very common to still have 1 NF at this age so I wouldn't worry much about the 2am feed. As their A increases that usually changes.

xoxo

[ladymugg]

Hey hey hey

Thanks for your on-going support, interest and replies!

Last night skipped the DF and he woke for a feed at 12.30 am; then again at 4 am (both times drank 95% of each bottle), so I think I will listen to you on the not bothering with the DF for now.  And hope that in the next month or so he becomes less and less dependent on the bottle in the night and hope he drops from 2 to 1 NF.  I think from what I've been reading on here that 7 (ish) months would be the time you would hope to drop the remaining NF and look to do some PU/PD or other resettling to try to phase that one out?!  I hope so much he is only on one NF by then 

I think you're right on the OT thing.  Oh man it is hard getting the balance   The only reason I'm pushing that first nap to 9 am is because my 2 year old has kindergarten drop off (not far from our house) at 8.45 am on Mon-Wed-Fri so I really don't want to do a weird catnap thing for 3 days a week.  Then her pick up at 12.30pm, he could sleep anytime after we are home from that.  Yesterday my husband picked up the 2 year old and my son slept 12.20pm to 3.15pm! 

So I think that watching those A times and maybe bringing forward the afternoon nap to more like 12.30 pm and then keeping that short catnap around 4.30 pm is going to be what we need to do for now.  You are right of course!

By the way, baby has never fed to sleep apart from those first few very newborn weeks (maybe until 4 weeks we started EASY?!).  So that BT bottle is awake, he is put down awake at night (and every nap and NF).  He self-settles and usually even when OT will stop those OT whinges within 5 minutes.  Room is really dark as we blinds and drapes but maybe I'll chuck up our travel black out blind this week just to be double sure

Thanks so much FPT23 you have helped me A LOT.

[FPT23]

Your very welcome- happy to help! We ALL need it

Yes usually Tracy suggests weaning the DF later on but I just feel it's not really needed if he's waking for it less than 4hrs after his BT bottle. If during the day he can go 4-4.5 hrs... so anything less than that at nights doesn't sound like it would be hunger, kwim? But mom always knows best. Continue to do what works for you and what you feel is right- we second guess ourselves a lot don't we ...but maybe when you are ready, you can attempt some pu/pd but it's best after his daytime routine is adjusted and see if that helps with the NWs. Then, you might not even need to do any ST'ing at all. Many times it's as "easy" as fixing the daytime routine or maybe even developmental, such as deprecation anxiety or teething etc. I know had my baby now been my first born, and my first born was a baby now-- I would be thrown! DS2 has just been a pretty good sleeper compared to his brother... ever was! Haha keep us posted on the NWs and that DF!

I would consider pushing BT a bit closer and maybe move in a nap sooner. The way you said sounds like a perfect plan. Give it a go and see if it helps! doesn't hurt!

Way to go on the IS! Isn't it amazing having at least THAT down?! DS1, we did the whole, "rock baby to sleep, put down carefully but he woke insantly" deal... haha! Until I found the forums! I knew DS2 we would def do things different and it has helped tremendously!

Let us know what works for you! It helps to write down your easy! That way you can refer back on a day he sleeps through and you can figure out what was done that day, and see if you can find a pattern! if u wish

Xo