Need help coming up with a sleep training plan for 14 month old

[Martini~]

Hmmm I am also thinking about her schedule. You wrote in first post that you transitioned to 1nap at 12mo which is I would say indicating a average sleep needs baby. Now you wrote it was at 10,5mo which indicates rather that she is a low sleep needs baby. And with an UT baby you will never get the sleep training right. So... Can you please once again post your schedule and how long you are on it?

[albers30]

Ok, so we're well into a  month plus of this and I don't feel like there has been much progress.  I didn't take her on the trip with me as I didn't want to have to start all over so she stayed home with dad who continued our plan.  Its still generally an hour of crying at bedtime and 2-3 wake ups at night with anywhere from 1-3 hours of crying each.  Her lack of sleep is starting to effect her generally happy easy going daytime attitude as well.  The only thing that settles her is to be touched so when she gets really wound up sometimes I'll touch her back or head for a few seconds and she calms down but very quickly starts crying again.  There is nothing else that soothes her either by myself or herself.  Is there anything else we can try?

[Shiv52]

Hugs that sounds tough.

Can you post your day? Sounds routine related if still this much upset.

[albers30]

Wakes between 7 and 730
Play
Breakfast
Play
Lunch
Goes down for nap between 1230 and 1, nap generally lasts 1.5-2 hours
Play
Dinner around 6-630
followed by bath and a little quieter playtime if needed
Wind down with a few books and song
Bedtime around 8 give or take depending on how tired or not she is

[jessmum46]

So sorry to hear you are all still struggling

I know above it has been suggested that she may be lower sleep needs, or need less sleep, but looking at that I wonder if in fact she may need an earlier nap, earlier bedtime, or possibly both?  Just thinking 14 months is still 'early' to be on one nap (average is 15 months) and many LOs early on can't handle more than 4.5h A time or so before napping.  It looks like more like 5.5h is her norm pre-nap, then another 5.5h after?  To me, for a 'typical' 14 month old (though we all know there is no such thing) that is too much A time and not enough nap.  Just from personal experience with my two, naps in the 1h30-50 range on one nap suggest over tiredness, and so my suggestions would be perhaps to move her nap back to a set(ish) 12pm, and keep her day to about 12 hours for now.  In case it helps to compare, my DD was not high sleep needs at all (nap gone entirely by 29 months) but at this age would have been on:

WU 6.30/7, sometimes later
Nap set 11.45 - average probably around the 2h mark but as high as 3h
BT 6.30pm

Do you think it's worth a try?  Even as a short-term thing to catch up a bit - regardless of whether she is overall lower sleep needs, a month or more of long NWs and late bedtimes and she almost certainly has some accumulated OT - if you can get on top of that it may really help x

[albers30]

I do try for earlier naps when I'm home but with the older two its so often we're out at something and don't get home in time for the earlier time and at school she has a 1230 nap time which I can't change. I'm up for trying anything at this point so we'll give it a try and see how it goes. 

[albers30]

I'd like to add that I think a major factor is her inability to sleep without physical touch from us.  During any of these crying scenarios if I were to touch her if any way a finger on her back her hand touching mine, really any touch at all she would quiet down and got to sleep.  I'm at a loss on how to help her sleep without this physical contact because anything else we've tried results in ongoing crying and the inability to self soothe and let herself drift off to sleep. 

[jessmum46]

I do find with mine that even though they are totally independent sleepers, when overtired they will actually need my help to settle down.  I wonder if she catches up on some sleep whether you may find it easier to withdraw your presence?

[Haribo2012]

Mine are the same as Jessmum well the eldest anyways DS2 is a work in progress, but when DS1 is OT I get lots of callbacks requests for lots of cuddles etc.

[michaeljacknnugg]

I'm going to jump in because I have a very similar baby, and I suspect that the course you've been following would have the same results for us. Touch is huge for him too, always has been.

I would in no way contemplate leaving my baby to cry, even in frustration. He is communicating a need, a need to be touched in order to feel secure enough to go to sleep. If I removed that (I've tried, previously), then the upset would escalate and the sleep resistance would increase. A tantrum it might be, but your little girl is trying to tell you something. Can you meet in the middle somehow?

[Shiv52]

Sorry I'm confused and have just read back.   The issue originally was she wasn't settling for bed on her own but also you wanted to stop her coming into your bed as she was demanding that from 10-11? So we said to reassure and comfort her but insist she's in her cot.   

Is there a reason you don't feel you can just touch her and help her settle?  It a big change snuggling right beside you to remaining in her cot. Especially if she goes over much quicker. I'd save you all that crying. Or do you think that will cause issues if she Wakes at night? 

[Shiv52]

What did you do about the bottle?

[albers30]

I do feel that if I continue to use touch to settle her that she will continue to wake frequently through the night expecting every time she wakes for  me to hold her hand until she's asleep.  Basically now I touch her til settled then back away gradually returning and touching her as she gets riled up until she finally gives in and sleeps at bedtime and in the middle of the night I lay beside her crib and hold her hand til settled withdraw it gradually and touch her again as needed until asleep but this drags on for an hour plus and within a couple of hours she wakes again wanting the same.  She is sleeping a 5-6 hour stretch after bedtime now and will wake during this time and resettle her self so this along with the fact she goes to sleep independently at nap time both at home and school I know she can self soothe so I'm not sure what she's trying to tell me at night other then I don't want to be alone but by this age I feel like its better for her if she is.  Am I wrong to think this, what might be some other causes?  She gets a bottle just before bedtime now so its still part of the bedtime routine but in no way is a part of helping her fall asleep.  I feel terrible and am really torn about what to do as I know she just wants to be with her mommy and I want her to continue to feel safe and loved but at nearly 15 months of age I also feel like she needs to be learning some independent sleep habits.  We tried an earlier nap time and bedtime yesterday and it was a disaster, she fought her nap ferociously which she has not done in awhile and then was literally up all night wanting to play.  Thoughts? 

[Martini~]

As said before, i still would verify low sleep needs theory. If she dropped to one nap at 10.5mo in my opinion it's a clear indicator of low sleeps needs.

[jessmum46]

^^^i agree in part, but would expect a lsn baby with independent sleep skills to have been able to sleep through at least at some point - as in the drop to one nap should have been followed by some significant improvement to night sleep.  Worth trying both theories I think x