5am WU for 23mth old - too early

[murphy76]

Our DS3 is up for the day at 5am again and it's killing us!

His day was normally

WU 6-630am
Nap 12-1
BT 7-715pm

Always had a 12-13 HR day.

For the past week out of nowhere it's now 5am and shouting so loud we can't risk him waking DS1 and DS2 so that's him for the day!

We extended his nap for a few days to 1hr15/30mins to combat OT but still the same 5am starts...

What can we do? He's always been LSN, but surely 23mths is too early to reduce the nap below an hour or even start to drop it?

Help required please!

[Haribo2012]

Hi there, it could be birthday shenanigans with him being 23 months.

Ds1 had a sleep regression at this age and refused naps etc.

How is he at 5am, chatty, crying,?

[murphy76]

Hi,

5am is crying until we come into the room, then going ballistic with his hands in the air until we take him out and downstairs, lest he wake the rest of the house..

We've tried lengthening his nap but he isn't tired going to bed earlier than 7pm, but it's a vicious circle.

I know these things pass in time, just looking for any way to make it a bit easier between now and then!

[creations]

I know quite a few LOs IRL who dropped the nap completely at 24 months, likely there are several on the forums too. It's not unheard of.
Mine didn't drop his nap until just over 2.5yo (I think it was 31 months) but when he did he dropped a 2hr nap to zero over night. Just like that.  I'm not saying it was easy, we had tricky sleep for around 6 months and I tried capping his nap etc but eventually realised the answer for him was to keep the long nap and accept the short night (late BT helped to move WU to a more reasonable hour).  The drop came when he was poorly, he napped super long 2.5hrs but that was his last nap, the following day no nap. He had some micro naps in the car, yk 5 mins here and there, and a little nap about 2 weeks later when we were both OT and I invited him to nap in bed with me and I was astounded when he accepted the invite. But the real naps had well and truly gone.

I agree that this can be related to the birthday development (every year we have this even at 5yo) but there might be some options to try:
- some people do cap the nap shorter than 1hr and gradually reduce and reduce until it is dropped, even going as short as 10 mins nap per day for a while.
- some LOs need the nap later. Mine was on a 2-4pm nap with 8pm BT and 6am WU.  Not saying you have to move all the way to 2pm but shifting the nap by 30 mins later and moving BT 30 mins later could help to shift that WU time.  Later BT did not sound attractive to me at all, I liked my Y time from 7pm however we all adapted very quickly and the 8pm BT and 10hr night suddenly switched to 7pm BT (or even earlier) and 12hr night (or 13 occasionally) when that nap went and by then we all liked the 8pm BT but had to adapt back to the 7pm.

I probably wouldn't increase the nap length if your DS was doing well on 1hr but moving it later could help...or capping ten mins shorter.

[murphy76]

Great thanks, there are a few things there to work on.

I think I'll try making his nap that bit later. Could well be on the way to dropping the nap, even if it takes 6mths, or at least capping it, as he is definitely LSN just like DS1.

The later nap also works In with his childcare which is why it's appealing.

All worth a go anyway and hopefully we stumble across the right one!

[Haribo2012]

Our nap was gone by 30 months and until then it from being a long nap to 45 mins then to 20 mins CN so did take a good 6 months x

[creations]

The later nap also works In with his childcare which is why it's appealing.

A good option to try then   Great that it fits in
Good luck!

[murphy76]

I know you can't judge things on one day as it takes a few to see results, but we did it yday and another early start today, but it had me thinking that it does feel like the start of the nap capping with a view to eventually dropping it.

Having been there with DS1 and them both being so similar, this is about the time we started to cut it with him.

I do remember the hellish 6 months while we got it established tho!

Quick question, how do we combat the OT in the first place? Will we go for set nap times still, say 12-1245 as that's close to what he was used to when he did 1 hour, then set bt of 7, and hope the OT just works itself out even though it's a 530-12 midday A time to start the day?

Happy to do something for a week to start, I just know the OT is a toughie for him and everyone so don't want to get in a vicious circle..

Thanks for all your help to date guys, it makes these early starts slightly more bearable knowing help is at hand!

[creations]

OK nap capping didn't work for my LO but based on other threads and support I would suggest moving the nap later so in effect you cut the nap time from the beginning of the nap rather than the end.
Slightly later nap should (hopefully) help to combat the EW (naps which come too early for Lo can lead to EW).
Keeping the A time between nap and BT as it is should help to avoid OT before BT.

Rather than set nap 12 - 12.45, I'd try set nap 12.15 - 1.00pm and keep BT 7pm
Really though it's up to you.

[Haribo2012]

Nap capping in the cot was hard for us DS1 was very grumpy being woken and would take ages to chill out again so we eventually just used to time a nap with a walk or drive so I'd make sure I timed doing my shopping or whatever journey at that time.
It's such a messy phase and if I'm honest (sorry) we had EW for ages but it got closer to 6am which I could cope with.

[murphy76]

Hi guys,

You are right, it's such a messy phase and to be honest just horrible for everyone. There's no pattern at all this week to what he does, and these EWs continue unabated. I am DREADING the time change on Sunday as know he will be awake at 4am, shouting the house down, and that's us started on another bad day.

But regardless I  am committed from now (feels a bit pointless with the clock change coming up but anyway) to set nap times of 1215-1pm and bt at 7pm each night. It's going to be a nightmare fortnight at the very least with OT, but we can't give him any longer nap to combat it and moving BT just hasn't worked at all.

I'd been trying all week to push BT to adjust in advance of the clock change and today he woke at 5.05am so upset, so we're at square -1, I still can't believe it.

Anyway, just moaning now, I have a plan so will stick to it and see how things go.

Thanks as ever for all your suggestions!

[creations]

If it's any help - moving times for the clock change in 15 min or even 30 min increments didn't really work for my DS. All that happened was that over a long period of time he lost sleep, later bed but still waking early.
What did work was pushing him right over the hour clock change rapidly. I needed to move him 1.5 to 2hrs instead of the 1hr to force his WU time to change.  Once his WU time change I moved BT earlier by 15 mins each day to lengthen his night sleep and keep the new WU time.

[murphy76]

That's good to know, thanks.

Here we are again thisorbimg, no problem tho as its expected and I know it'll be 4am tmrw. I'm tempted for DH to stick him in the car and see if he will go over for a bit to at least see if his day can start a bit later? Just tmrw because of the change, any reason not to do that?

[creations]

If you can do anything to get his day to start later it's got to be worth a shot.
If it works then it works. If not then you need to start pushing the times to move the day on.

I don't look forward to the clock change even with DS at 5yo.  I'll do a 30 min change for 2 days to move him. Much easier than when he was a toddler but still a PITA.

Good luck

[Haribo2012]

I hate clock change, luckily DS1 didn't wake till 7 this morning so I'll push him till 8pm tonight and hoping DS2 I can force a CN at 5pm. Hoping to get them both to 5.30/6 new time but won't happen lol x