Author Topic: Here I am again!  (Read 1119 times)

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Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Here I am again!
« on: October 22, 2016, 03:30:32 am »
I was here when my son was 18m, again at 2.5, and now he's getting close to 3 and this isn't working anymore.

We had a baby 3 months ago and that's when the issues started, I have been patient and loving but he has acted so awful lately and been so cranky because lack of sleep and it's time to put a stop to it. I'm ready for some new advice.

Background so you guys don't have to look me up lol
-He has slept with us since birth
-nursed to sleep held by me for 18m
-night weaned very easily at (18m)
-transitioned smoothly to cuddling his dad to sleep (20m)
-Started falling asleep on his own in his bed in our room (2 years) this is when he completely dropped his nap and just fusses and cries no matter what we do for the full hour he's supposed to be napping.

The whole time (birth to 2 years) he woke through the night once or twice but was very easily put back to bed with a reassuring hand.

This worked well for 5 months, and then baby #2 was born. For the last 3 months he has woken every 1-2 hours inconsolable. If his daddy isn't home yet (he works second shift) he cries for him but if he is he just cries and screams. I have tried everything and have been very understanding, becoming a big brother and sharing mommy and daddy is very hard and stressful for such a little guy, but having no sleep is making the situation so much worse.

The bedtime problem is creeping into every other part of our life, he's being defiant and cranky and whining all day..I knew it's normal to an extent but this is seriously ridiculous.

Meanwhile the baby sleeps 12 hours a night (when he's not being woken by big brothers tantrums, which does happen probably 3x a week)

Our current sleeps schedule

-he wakes up between 8-9am.
-I try to lay him down for a nap at 1 but he never naps..he only fights me. This last week I haven't even tried because I am way too tired to even fight that fight anymore.
(2:30 his daddy leaves for work)
-7pm bedtime routine starts
-730pm bedtime (he fights it until he finally goes to sleep completely exhausted at 9pm)
- the night fight begins
(His daddy gets home at 12:30am)

I have tried putting him to bed earlier because he is obviously tired by 5pm, but any earlier than 730p the night fight is way worse. I feel like the sweet spot for nighttime sleep without a nap is 730 but he always fights me.

Ok, of you're still reading this (and I hope so because I really need you guys) here's the advice I'm looking for.

1. It's time he sleeps in his room, and I need advice on how to do this without hurting his little feelings, he's already hurt at having to share us and I would like this as pain free as possible. 
He goes to sleep on his own in our room in his bed but someone has to be in there with him for him to even try to go to sleep. He doesn't care where we are as long as he can see one of us.

2. What should I do about this crazy schedule? He still needs a nap but won't take it and I would like it if he would.

3. What in the world should I do about these night wakings?
I've tried spending time with him during the day without the baby, because I understand that's most of it, but that hasn't helped at all.

If you haven't gotten through all that you are awesome! Thanks in advance for the help I really appreciate it!

Offline murphy76

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 05:43:11 am »
Hi,

That sounds tough, but rest assured you will get there even if it doesn't seem like it at the minute!

More experienced will me will advise, but just to say my DS1 and 2 had dropped their naps completely by 2.5-3, and we are in the process of starting to cap then drop the nap for DS3 at the minute, so that may be an option.

As for going to sleep independently, you will be able to break that habit but it might be tough juggling two at night with your husband at work, is there a friend or family member who could help for a bit or be there for support?

Good luck!

Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 17:11:02 pm »
Just wanted to update, I put him down for a nap today at noon and he fought me for an hour but I was determined not to let him up until 2 at least and he fell asleep at 1. Maybe we can do this everyday until he gets used to napping again and then make naptime 12:30p

How does this schedule look?

8a wake-up
12:15p nap routine
12:30p nap
1:15p-1:30p nap wake-up
7:30p bedtime routine
8p bedtime


Did I mention I start school in January? I really want these issues done by then.

Offline Katet

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 20:14:48 pm »
Have your ruled out anything medical for the frequent night wakings & the drama. I'd be getting his ears tested because children can have lots of build up of fluid (without infection) & that can be really disruptive to sleep. I'd actually get an ENT to look at it if you can because I know our GP didn't think DS1 had fluid, yet the ENT said his ears were full (although not infected) once we got his ears sorted his sleep was also sorted.  Also does he snore or deep breath when he sleeps?
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2016, 00:50:26 am »
I really think it's just overtiredness, but if it persists I'll definitely get him checked out. The drama started when the baby came home from the hospital with us and never got better.  He napped babies first week home, then dropped it completely. (Until today, I got an hour and a half today from trying an hour earlier than usual)

No snoring, nor heavy breathing.

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2016, 05:04:00 am »
We had similar problems with DS fighting the nap and pushing it later after my DD was born. In the end I started just putting him down for the nap later as it was easier to do that than have a fight for 30-60mins
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


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Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 02:50:40 am »
An update:
After the day when I forced the nap he would not go to bed that night. He simply wasn't tired, he finally went to bed at 2am.  The bedtime arrangement I have done the last 2 nights is bedtime at 8pm wake up is between 8-9.

The night wakings have already gotten a little better, he is waking less and the drama is less. We've gotten a little more sleep. I think it was just time he go in his bed. I loved goalkeeping but I can't be selfish like that :(

The being exhausted by 5pm has gotten better since the night sleep has been better but he's still tired a couple of hours before bedtime. Is that just normal? If I let him get still he actually falls asleep but if we're doing stuff (like eating or playing) you can tell he's sleepy but it doesn't effect his attitude.

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 20:23:24 pm »
So he's stopped napping now? If so, then yes some tiredness is normal, but if you find he's coping with pushing on through to BT, stick with it and hemjght adjust.

If however you find signs that OT might be creeping in, maybe try an earlier BT on no nap days.
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 05:59:54 am »
Yes I think he's completely done napping. He went to bed in under 10 minutes tonight!
The drama has completely stopped, now when he wakes up he just needs walked back to bed a covered up again but I think that will end soon.

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2016, 20:14:27 pm »
Great to hear things have improved (at least with the sleep battles, the dropping the nap with a new baby around is tough)
Xxx
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 04:41:42 am »
It was awful, he's been going to bed consistently and there's no night drama but there is still night waking (3-5x nightly, if not more) is there any way I can stop those? He just wants to be put back to bed now so it's not like it's a huge issue anymore but all those wakings are still very exhausting. He usually gets up every 2 hours. It's so frustrating because he used to be such a good sleeper and the baby sleeps through already.

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 20:07:20 pm »
Waking that often and around every 2hrs at night is often linked to relying on a parent to help get to sleep at bedtime. I read back to your original post and note that he's not going to sleep completely independently at bedtime I.e. You can't put him in his own bed in his own room,  say good night and leave him.

To improve your nights, some sleep training at bedtime would probably help. Options for toddlers are gradual withdrawal or walk in/walk out. If he's never fallen asleep I depenejdany than GW might be the gentlest approach to start with, but can take more time to implement and see changes than WI/WO.  Here's a useful link. Have a read, see what you think and come back if you want to chat anything through. Sleepy hugs xxx

Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
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Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 00:30:39 am »
Thank you. I've been trying to do gradual withdrawal but tonight I did walk in/walk out because of your advice and he weren't to sleep pretty easily. I only came back once before he was asleep.
So you think if we're consistent with that he will just start staying in bed on his own?

Offline murphy76

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 10:50:02 am »
For what it is worth WI/WO really helped us when moving DS2 to a big boys bed, took a few days but he got there

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 21:28:56 pm »
Thank you. I've been trying to do gradual withdrawal but tonight I did walk in/walk out because of your advice and he weren't to sleep pretty easily. I only came back once before he was asleep.
So you think if we're consistent with that he will just start staying in bed on his own?

Sounds like great progress! Yes stick with it, be very consistent & hopefully he'll learn that you are still there but his sleep is in his bed.
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline Mel_bhs2010

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2016, 01:42:16 am »
I can get him to stay in his bed until about 2 am and then it's all out war.
He wake me up at 2 and I was able to keep him quiet in his room until about 5 last night when he wrote his brother up. His daddy took over for him and I got the baby back to sleep astonished 7am only to find out my husband got keep back to sleep.....in our bed. From 7-8 the my toddler tossed and turned, pushing me out of bed and pulling my hair. My husband got up with both boys this morning but I only got an hour sleep before the baby needed me (breastfed)  I definitely feel like a mom of 2. I'm so tired. Hopefully this will be under control by next year when I go back to school. Being a stay at home mom isn't so bad when you're tired because she their asleep I can sleep but when I have homework at night it will be awful.

I was thinking maybe put a mattress in the floor in the toddlers room and let dh sleep there after he gets home? He works 330-midnight and I think my toddler just misses him. I don't want to create a whole other issue though.

 Bedtime was fine tonight, but he asked for his daddy a few times and I know it's because his daddy is more lenient.  The baby was actually harder to put to bed..He's usually asleep by 730 and ours almost 10 now and I just laid him down for the millionth time. Goodnight for now! Any suggestions would be awesome because I feel like we just took a giant leap back.

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Here I am again!
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2016, 20:21:05 pm »
Huge hugs, I hope the last couple of days have been better. I'm sure it is all phases and will be better next year when you are back in school. Both baby & toddler will be older and out of this phase. I remember feeling broken with exhaustion this time last year. Our days are still tiring butvour nights are much improved now.

Not sure what to suggest for your DS. I understand the mattress on the floor option. I do it for illness but on a regular basis it might become something he depends on.

Is it possible that the NWs are from becoming OT since dropping the nap? I understand he no longer would take it, which is fine, but would he benefit from an earlier bedtime? It sounds unlikely but often LOs sleep gets worse as they get more & more tired & giving opportunity for more sleep can actually work and lead to better sleep.
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD