Author Topic: Great at eating solids - but losing interest in bottle - causing night waking?  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline ladymugg

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Hi there

My 7 mo DS has been on solids for about 2 months and took to it with gusto.  He is a big boy with a huge appetite so has been having large bottles (240ml/8oz) 4 times a day and still wakes for one bottle in the night (a slightly smaller one of about 180ml).

The amount of solids he has is a fairly big bowl.  I do home made and freeze the puree into ice cube trays, so he has about 4 ice cubes of veges/meat - somewhere between 2/3 cup to 1 cup.

My query is about a few things so bear with me (and apologies if in wrong category).

EASY looks like this:
6/6.30 am WU/bottle
7/7.30 am solids
9 am sleep
11 am WU/bottle
12 pm solids
1/1.30 pm sleep
3/3.30 pm WU/bottle
5 pm solids
6.30 pm bottle/bed
3.30 am bottle (although this varies).

1 - He sometimes isn't hungry for his 3 pm bottle.  Mucks around on it for a while.  He isn't eating GIANT meals at lunch but obviously I am doing something wrong as he isn't waking up hungry for that bottle.  And then it kind of turns into this half bottle gone / solids time / then a new bottle at bedtime.

I'm keen to make sure he goes to bed at night for a long, sustained sleep so feel like he should be getting more milk in around late afternoon.  I can't remember when babies are supposed to stop waking in the night for hunger, I assume it around about now (7 months). 

What should I do to make his feeding a little better in the afternoon?  Not worry about it?  Feed solids first was one suggestion from a child nutritionist I talked to in a FB live chat.

2 - He has slept through the night (12 hours) once about a week ago.  That was a one-off.  But he wakes once in the night, usually about 3.30/4 am, but sometimes earlier (like last night was about 1.15am), and I feel that happens on the nights when he doesn't have that big bottle before bed.  Maybe I'm reading into that too much?! 

3 - I plan to start resettling him in about a week once things in our house calm down a little.  I'm a SAHM mum but working on an event part time and that has made things a little more chaotic, so would rather wait until after next Saturday to tackle resettling in the night.  In saying that I don't always just rush in and feed him - make sure he's warm, can reach his dummy etc and give him 10 minutes before we go and feed him when he wakes in the night.  That sometimes works but not always.  So - do you think he is possibly ready to be night weaned?

4 - If yes he should be night weaned, should I start by reducing bottle size offered?  I have made that night bottle a little smaller than day bottles already, but maybe I should go a little smaller.

Sorry that the above is in one topic, but my questions feel all a bit linked (to me anyway).

THANKS! :D
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

Offline creations

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Hi
It's fine to post here - it all looks like food and related questions to me :)

It's a bit hard for me to use the quote button right now so I'll just number answers as per your questions:
1. It's fine and normal for one bottle to be of less interest as he gets a bit older. LOs can sometimes start to go longer than the 4hrs as I think you are seeing from earlier E times.  I would continue the bottle but maybe offer just a touch later, maybe 3.30 - 4pm.  As you wean the night feed his milk intake will likely pick up a bit more again so I would keep offering at the same times.  It is also okay for some bottles to be bigger than others if he is more hungry at that time.
You could also bring the dinner solids a touch earlier, maybe 4.30pm instead so that he has a good amount of time to get hungry to take a good BT bottle. This may help with nights.

Personally i would not switch to solids first, milk is his primary source of food for some time yet and I would only switch if perhaps closer to 11 or 12 months old he was not interested in his solids meal enough as at 12 months solids becomes the primary food.
I never switched any of my LOs milk/solids times around.

You have a NF at the time he wakes rather than a DF. that's fine. The usual time for weaning the DF is around 8 months. If you feel your LO is ready now then that's fine or wait a couple of weeks.  I would do as you said and reduce the bottle each night, over a week or so.  If he isn't ready he will not settle on the smaller bottle or will wake again or EW for the morning bottle.  You should be able to tell.  If he isn't ready now then try again in a month.

2. He might be a bit young yet to get right through the night without a feed or to do it regularly. I think you will find in a couple of weeks or a month or if you begin to weam the night feed slowly rather than cold turkey, you will see a change in the nights.  I know you're keen for it, it won't be long now :)

3. I think I answered already. Perhaps too soon to be trying to resettle without a feed but almost there. Certainly a gradual wean is helpful IMO.

4. Yes. Either now if you feel he is ready or in 2-4 weeks.

Hope this helps


Offline ladymugg

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Thank you so much for your reply. Very reassuring.

I have had a very busy past week or so, so sorry I haven't replied earlier.  I did read it but wanted time for things to calm down before digesting the info properly :)

In the meantime, this LO has decided to go from 1 wake up in the night to 2 :/  And both times very hungry and despite attempts to resettle will only go back to sleep after a bottle.  These have been around 12 am and then again at about 4 am :( 

Is this normal?  I don't recall this happening with my older child.  But I know they're all different.  Just when I thought he was getting less dependent on night feeds then he goes and wants another one :(
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

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I wouldn't expect an increase in night feeds at this age, does it seem like a growth spurt?  Has there been any illness recently?

If it has been going on longer than a normal growth spurt and there has been no illness for which he needs to make up lost calories then perhaps look again at the meals and bottles in the day.  There are a couple of things you could try
- switching some of the solids food for dairy solids, so offering more cheese/yoghurt/milky sauces (not an increase in solids but increasing the dairy type foods)
- increasing the protein and fat content of solids which will increase the calorie intake in the day which would hopefully reduce the need to take on calories at night
- check you are not filling his tummy on low calories solids which make him feel full but don't offer much in the way of energy for growth etc, so cutting back on rice for instance, ensuring foods are full fat, no whole grains either (no brown pasta, brown rice etc).
- it shouldn't matter which meals he increases diary/fat/protein on - what I mean is it doesn't need to be near BT, it can be breakfast too.

Other reasons for NWs could be teething, any sign?

Whilst I would feed a hungry baby I'd be reluctant to increase night feeds too.


Offline ladymugg

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No illness - it has been going since Saturday or Sunday night, so about 4 nights now.  No other behaviour points to a growth spurt really.

Will increase dairy as suggested
Solids are usually a mix of pumpkin/squash, potato, beef, chicken, spinach, sweet potato and lentils.  Sometimes add in a small amount of butter to this. 
Has started eating bananas as well but I am not massive on giving too much fruit at this age so this is once a day at the most.
Have also recently introduced plain unsweetened Greek yoghurt - still developing a taste for this. 
I do not plan on introducing grains until at least 10 months so he has not been eating rice, wheat or oats.  We try to (emphasis on TRY) as a family to a more whole-food, lowish carb, higher fat/protein kind of diet (most of the time, but gee its hard!) so I'm not shy on introducing meat, dairy or veges and avoiding grains and more sugary foods. 

Teething - he has had signs of teething on and off for about three months but no signs of any teeth poking through.  I always check for red cheeks if he wakes in the night as sometimes a bit of teething gel or dummy soothes this.  But lately still wants a bottle even after trying these things out.

I am pretty reluctant to continue feeding twice in the night but am a little stuck about what to do as a) he seems to genuinely want it - although I agree he hasn't needed it up until recently and b) he can be difficult to resettle... not that he can't be resettled but more that when he is awake he is just a super awake little dude, and previous attempts at shush-pat or PU/PD haven't really worked, he just likes the company of you being there when that is happening (hehe). 

Thanks so much for your advice so far.  I hope this passes in the next few days but if it doesn't not sure what to try next.  I guess I could try PU/PD or just leaving him but neither sounds that appealing right now :(
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

Offline ladymugg

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By the way - interest in the bottle has come back on in the last week or so! So the title of this thread is a little moot... now my only issue is this double night waking which I was hoping was really a single moving to a nothing!!!
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

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b) he can be difficult to resettle... not that he can't be resettled but more that when he is awake he is just a super awake little dude, and previous attempts at shush-pat or PU/PD haven't really worked, he just likes the company of you being there when that is happening (hehe). 
Do you think it is perhaps a routine issue? Maybe the whole routine needs a tweak?  8-9 months it could be UT causing the additional NW, especially as he sounds like he is chatty, happy and ready for a play. From your EASY it looks like he is still getting 2 2hr naps, yes?  This might be too much day sleep now and perhaps one of those naps needs capping.
What do you think?


Offline ladymugg

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Hmm good point, although he is only 7.5 months.  I'll go back to the bookmarked EASY and A time links and double check everything again. 

He woke at 5 am today so we tried waiting it out for his bottle (until about 5.30 am - normal WU is 6 am).  Nap usual time of 9 am... so will see that's 4 hours of A time (his big sister had kindy drop off at 8.45 so didn't want to put him down earlier anyway).

Will be interested to see what kind of nap that brings... will stretch his afternoon sleep to 1.30/2pm (depending on how we go today) and see if that also makes a difference.

Thanks for that tip! :D
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

Offline creations

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Oops sorry I got his age wrong!!
Still worth a look at routine though I think based on your description of the additional NW.


Offline ladymugg

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Thanks - definitely will do.  Especially as doing it by default this morning!! :D
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

Offline Martini~

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I still would say it's rather a routine issue as two 2h naps is a lot. I don't know many 7-8mo who can do 16h/24h of sleep except from hsn babies. So you can either push the day to 13h if you don't want to increase A times before naps or just cap naps.

My DS is a average sleep needs toddler and anything more than 2.5/3h of sleep a day would prevent him from doing 12h. I could go for more day sleep but it would affect nights.
~Marta

Offline ladymugg

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Thanks so much.  I think you might be correct. 

Have had a look at the Average A times and chronological EASY samples 7-9 mo bookmarks and it would seem that from 8 months (I'm rounding up here) that 3-4 hours A time is normal.  (Although would add that the EASY sample page is more like 3 hours).

Anyway 2 nights ago I increased A time and got only one wake up (yes!).

Last night, hubby had looked after him most of the day as I was out and while he did try to increase awake time he didn't persist as maybe I would have (that's ok) and went back to 2 wake ups.

Today A time is looking more like 3.5 hours, so lets see how he goes tonight.  (yes I realise this is getting further and further away from a question about solids, lol, and sorry).

My question would be what would your total nap time recommendation be looking like?  Currently average sleep time is around 2 hours (sometimes 2.5, sometimes 1.5) per nap (x 2)... I am aiming for 11.5-12 hours at night with no wake ups...

Martini, would you be recommending I aim for something like this?

6.00 am WU/bottle
7.30 am solids
9.30 am nap (1.5 hours)
11 am WU/bottle
12.30 pm solids
2.30/3 pm nap (1.5 hours) but sleep no longer than 4 pm maybe?
4 pm bottle
5.30 pm solids
Bath, bottle, bed by 6.30 pm

If he sleeps long should I be looking to wake him gently?  Or more like get that morning sleep long and make the afternoon sleep a CN?

Thanks Martini and creations for your suggestions! :)
Mum to DD born April 2014 and DS born April 2016.

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If your LO doesn't like naps to be capped you might be better off with your idea of one long nap and one shorter, then you only have to cap one nap rather than two. Also keep in mind that when one nap is dropped you want to retain one longer nap so continuing to have one long nap can be a smoother transition to one nap (down the line).  It's also worth keeping in mind that not all A times have to be equal, it could be you have a longer A time before the long nap and a slightly shorter A time before the second nap for example.

Great that the NWs reduced to 1!  Hope it continues that way :)