Short naps and overtiredness-4 months old

[Jm2450]

Hi, I know there is a similar post about a 4 month old and overtiredness but this has only happened for us in the last week or so-is it the regression? My DS was a baby whisperer baby and had an excellent routine from about 4 months and it's still working really well for him.

My DD is 4.5 months old and I thought she had an awake time of about 2 hours. Generally until the last week or so her routine has been:
Wake up approx 7am (I let her wake herself but is generally 6.45-7.30)
Nap 2 hours later approx 9/9.15-9.45/10 wakes herself
Nap 2 hours later approx 12-2/2.15/2.30 wakes herself sometimes with a shriek in the middle after 40 mins
Cat nap for about 40 mins between 4 and 5
Asleep 6.45/7
Night feed between 2 and 4

In the past week, she has been STTN (touch wood!) for 11.5/12 hours which has been great but it has coincided with her seeming more knackered and having some short naps again. Obviously I don't want to mess with it too much as the night sleep is great but last night we had one wake up (for about 5 minutes), 40 minutes after bedtime and I think OT has crept in.

Our routine the past week or so has been:
Wake up 6.45/7
Nap 8.45/9-9.30/45 wakes herself
Nap 2 hours later so approx 11.45 and only sleeps one sleep cycle. I have been resettling her on me/occasionally she does it herself after being awake 20 mins as my toddler is having a nap so I have this time and she will then sleep till around 1.30/2/normally one more sleep cycle.
Catnap between 4-5
Bedtime 7

The problem is that she looks permanently shattered and is yawning straight after a nap and I think she's really overtired. Any tips for getting out of this? Should I reduce awake times?

She self settles herself regardless of how tired she is without any tears so it's really hard to work out if she's OT. Feeds on demand as when I tried to go every 3 hours, she just fed more over night. Tends to be on waking with top ups before naps (but doesn't feed to sleep).

Any advice really welcome as she got grumpy this morning and is normally such a happy girl who very rarely cries. Should I just go completely baby led and ignore awake times? The problem with this is I will probably be putting her down for a nap about 30/45 mins after she wakes

TIA xx

[Jm2450]

Also meant to say I don't try and elongate the first nap as I need to get out and about with my toddler in the morning so it suits us better to have a shorter nap in the morning and a long one at lunchtime when we are home for his nap.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi there!

4mo is a tricky age for naps as there is a lot going on developmentally that can disrupt sleep, and a sleep regression, which usually is related to change in sleep patterns and more difficulty transitioning between sleep cycles. I remember struggling with short naps with both of mine at this age.

It helps that she can SS for naps, that usualky helps LOs learn to transition when they're ready to.  Could the grumpiness be developmental? Is she working in new skills? Rolling?

Any chance she's unwell and that's causing tiredness and grumpiness? If either developmental or illness, she should settle back to her happy self & better naps in a week or 2.

If not...

One thing to try could be a top up feed before the nap? I tried this with my DD around the same age as she was stretching to a 2hr A time but able to go long enough between feeds to get a good nap.  I tried a top up around 30 mins before the nap.

How close to 5mo is she and how long has she been doing a 2hr A time? Just wondering whether another possibility might be trying an A time increase before the 2nd nap? In case the tiredness is UT/OT?

The short first nap looks OK to me, some LOs never take a long first nap, my DS was like that and could do a full A time after only 35-40 mins and never slept longer for his first nap.

[Jm2450]

Thank you for your reply! A much happier day today but 4 40 minute naps again!! I'm happy just to go with it for now and hope they lengthen! She's working on lots. Can roll front to back and is working on back to front (almost there!). She is exactly 4.5 months so instinct says any more than 2 hours is too much. On the odd occasion it has been longer (sick/poo explosions etc at a bad time) then naps have been the same. I remember my DS doing short naps but I can't remember when they lengthened out. From the other posts on here, it looks like we're all going through the same thing!!

Really appreciate your input!! I'll give it a few weeks and come back if they don't re-lengthen. Thank you xx

[Jm2450]

We had some luck today.
Wake up 6.35
Nap 8.35-9.20 so only 45 mins as normal and woke happy
We were out and she didn't fall asleep on the go so put her down at 11,55 when we got home and although she woke after 45 mins happy, I left her and she fell asleep 10 mins later and is still asleep now at 2pm! Maybe she wasn't tired enough as always wakes happy. In fact has just woken now so an almost 2 hour sleep!! Will keep the bigger awake time after the first nap and see if we can keep this longer lunchtime snooze. 2.5 does seem a big awake time for 4.5 months though?! She has slept through the night (11.5-12 hours) now every night for a week so we'll see how tonight goes...

[Scottishmummy]

A times are all averages and it's often just work out what works for your LO. They do increase quite quickly from 4-6mo so I don't think it's all that unusual to do a longer than average A time somewhere in the routine. I think my DD needed around 2.5hrs for her last A time at this age.

As I said before,don't worry too much about the short 1st nap. Some LOs (like my DS) never do a long first nap and manage just fine for rest of the morning,especially if you can then get a long 2nd nap.

Hope that routine continues to work out for you

Xxx

[Jm2450]

So...the naps have got longer (hooray!!) but now we seem to have more night wakings!! She was previously STTN so now not really sure what to do.
For the last few days, our routine has looked like this:
Wake 5.45/6ish for feed but hasn't settled back to sleep until about 30 minutes later and this has been in bed with me as she's cooing, chatting and squeaking and worried she'll wake my toddler.
She wakes up at 7.30/45 when toddler comes in.
Nap 9.30/45 for 30-45 minutes. She wakes naturally. Often in the sling but only does 45 mins max at home
Nap 2 hours later so 12.15/30 for 1.5-2 hours
Nap 2/2.25 hours later at 4.15/30 for 30-45 minutes. She wakes naturally around 5/just before.
Asleep in bed at 7.
Self settles for all naps. I've been feeding her when she wakes as desperate for her not to wake the toddler so she's been getting one or two night feeds again. She's a few days off 5 months now. Any idea how we can tweak the routine or might it be the 4 month regression that we seem to have missed! I don't mind night feeds but she was previously STTN and now doesn't settle until ages after the feed!!

She's a very happy girl in the day generally. Tired signs are hard to spot so assume awake times are about right as I'm using guidelines??!

A tired mummy after the second night in a row of sub 5 hours sleep. Any help much appreciated x

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!

My sympathy for the broken nights, I remember the sleeplessness of 4mo well! 

At this age the broken night could be a few things:

Growth spurt? If so should settle down after a few days/nights

Developmental leap? Working on new skills? Rolling? Sitting? Again, should settle once those are mastered.

4mo sleep regression. This is usually linked to relying on some sort of parental support to fall asleep at BT e.g. Feed/rock etc. You say sheSS for naps, does she SS at BT too?

If you rule all of that out and still getting NWs, she could be at the start of the 3-2 and a little UT. It seems a little early but she's not far off 5mo when it starts for some. If so, then trycappong the 3rdnap at 30mins for a few days. If no improvement try a 20min last nap. All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

HTH
Xx

[Jm2450]

Hero thank you. She mastered rolling about a month ago, did it loads and is now uninterested in it and trying to sit up in the last week so maybe it's that! She has gone from literally not able to do it at all to being able to balance for 10 or so seconds with the aid of a finger/cushion/minimal support so the long NWs might account for this! I've been feeding as I don't want her to wake my oldest but not convinced she's hungry.

Sometimes our last nap is 30 mins anyway as its normally on the go but will try this more consistently if no improvement.

Yes self settles for all sleep fabulously with no tears (know I'm very lucky and pleased she found her thumb for this!).

Thanks for all of you advice. Appreciate it!! Nice to blame the NWs on something anyway!!