Author Topic: Short AM/long PM (Read 7535 times)

Lindsay27 · « **on:** November 25, 2016, 20:26:14 pm »

Posting this here because Nora is 1 in about 2 weeks.

So, she's always taken a stellar morning nap, usually 1-5-2hrs, usually 1.45ish and then I try to a CN about 4hrs later, which now more often than not she completely refuses making for a 1 nap day...which wouldn't be terrible if it were mid-day, but her morning nap is ending at about 11:30am, and it's a loooooong haul from 11:30-bedtime.

So, alternatively I've been trying a short AM/long PM nap...but the afternoon nap is just so mediocre, and never as good as that long morning nap we get. When I do that short AM I cap it at 45mins then do the PM nap about 3-3.5hrs later, but she only sleeps about an hour, so she just never seems overly rested.

I'm just not sure what to do because neither scenario is working out particularly well right now.

lolsyb1982 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2016, 06:27:02 am »

Have you tried a shorter first nap? To get a decent 2nd nap we have to cap the first one at 15/20 mins.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2016, 17:10:56 pm »

I can maybe reduce to 30mins but I don't know if I can do more than that. Even waking her at 45mins she is extremely difficult to wake up and the A time to the next nap isn't exactly fun, she is very whiny/crabby and just generally acts very tired. When I let her have her long morning nap however she wakes happy and is very playful etc. I don't know, the short AM just doesn't seem to work that great for her to be honest...she's just a grumpy mess. Maybe I will just try to push her morning A time so that the nap is more mid-day. I mean she's doing okay on her 1 nap days, we do an EBT and she'll sleep nearly 12hrs, but it still makes for an early wake up which makes it hard to get the nap mid-day.

lolsyb1982 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2016, 17:16:58 pm »

I hear ya. We're at a very similar messy point. Hate the 2-1!

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2016, 17:31:43 pm »

It's gross lol

Martini~ · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2016, 19:23:21 pm »

Yes, definitely capping earlier would help or pushing second nap even further. Can you make this first nap earlier? So she is not so tired for it and would be more happy to be awake?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2016, 19:44:55 pm »

Today she is completely refusing the PM nap altogether. I capped her at 45mins this morning and tried for her PM nap 3.5hrs later and she is so OT (I think from no good naps yesterday and then the capped nap this morning) and is fighting it with everything in her, yet she can barely keep her eyes open. This short AM stuff just really isn't working at all, I think I will just go back to what we were doing. Even on her 1 nap days she is so much happier than this and she does eventually catch up with 2 naps. She isn't in daycare until mid-January so I don't really feel the need to force this right now lol

Martini~ · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2016, 20:16:43 pm »

You can do it if you wanna, but as I said it's quite normal. From my experience capping works at this age with a very short morning nap or 10-30min.

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2016, 21:39:37 pm »

DS1 could never do short am long PM it just wouldn't work with him, we did long am but pushed it later and then forced CN at 4pm but that was with drive or buggy walk. Not easy when you have an older LO to consider.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2016, 00:03:41 am »

Ya she's honestly just not ready to do that short of a morning nap quite yet. I think like you said Zoe we might just have to keep pushing that morning nap later and later.

C&B&E · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2016, 00:16:16 am »

We brought the am nap earlier, cut it to 30 mins which ds could cope with better because he was less tired due to shorter A time. Then was able to bring the pm nap forward too. It took some tweaking, but ended up being a good option as then we gradually made that morning nap 15 mins, then cut it all together.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2016, 01:32:24 am »

How early would you bring the morning nap? She loves her morning sleep so much I think she would go down with as little as a 3hr A time. Actually today I think her first A was only 3.15hr. Her WU can be anywhere from 6-7am. DS did great with the short AM nap, but I don't know about this girl. I would say she is on the higher end of sleep needs, not anything crazy but probably slightly more than average, and she goes to bed at 7pm pretty well no matter what...has since the day she was born, bless her, she's like her mother lol.

Martini~ · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2016, 08:52:59 am »

Hehehe who would thought that she is towards hsn when she was waking at 5am:). So with the nap and 6/7-7 routine I would say 9:30 would be ok if you let her sleep for 20-30min. You may tray 40min but as I said it's usually already too regenerative for them to go to sleep easily for second nap and sleep long.

creations · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2016, 10:45:41 am »

This was the age DS went down to 1 nap. The option of a long morning nap has already been mentioned I see, that's what we did. Forcing an afternoon nap was not really possible here (rare anyway) so I kind of had to just go to the1 nap and EBT.
I would do the morning nap later and let her sleep as long as she wants, if it's later she might do the 2hr regularly or if she is higher sleep needs she might do a bit over 2hrs, the longer the better as it help to get closer to BT.
Something like
nap 10.30 - 12.30
BT 5.30
aiming to move the nap and BT later.
If she was managing on a 1 nap day when the nap was early and she refused the CN then she has somehow coped with a mega long A time following the nap, maybe she could adjust quite well to just one nap and EBT?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 27, 2016, 13:11:02 pm »

The last few days before I attempted the short AM she would do her usual long morning nap, and the CN wouldn't be until about 4:15pm and I would let her sleep 15-20mins and she still went to bed at 7pm no issues and would do 11-12hrs overnight. If she refused the CN she would do an EBT and 12hrs and she could handle that for 2 days and then day 3 she'd take 2 naps. She is handling it all quite well but every day is different, which is fine...such is the transition right!? I think she's always been higher sleep needs we just ran into a wonky period during the 3-2.

tathi-b · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2016, 05:57:02 am »

Just noticed this post and we are currently having the exact same problem! Our little girl goes down around 10am and when I wake her at -1 she's a grumpy mess and refuses to go down for her pm nap! I might try to let her sleep as long as she wants in the morning and see if I can slowly close the gap between waking from an nap and bed time and keep her 1 nap in the morning. She's a great sleeper and does 12 hour nights so I'm thinking she's just over tired for pm nap?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 09, 2016, 20:26:27 pm »

Ya the short AM was just not working for us either. This morning however we had an appointment scheduled during her morning nap time, and she ended up skipping it altogether and I put her down at 1pm and she's been down for 2.5hrs now. So, it might be time we just run with it. That said I'm sure if we were home all morning it would have been difficult to keep her going, but we have some local play groups in the morning so I may start taking her to those, good distraction!

creations · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2016, 07:51:58 am »

Quote from: Lindsay27 on December 09, 2016, 20:26:27 pm

, but we have some local play groups in the morning so I may start taking her to those, good distraction!

This is what I did as my DS turned 1yo. Prior to 1yo we had always gone to afternoon groups because he was having a long nap in the morning but I just switched the groups we went to.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2017, 10:43:51 am »

K ladies help me out here...I've been doing the short AM/long PM trying to get DD prepared for daycare where they have an afternoon nap at 1pm. It is giving us these awful 5:30am EWs though. And whenever I revert back to allowing her to have her long nap in the morning, the EWs disappear even though the amount of day sleep remains the same. I don't get it

Starting next week she's going to daycare full time and there is absolutely no way she is going to make it from 5:30am-1pm, I can only imagine what kind of disaster that would be.

tathi-b · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2017, 10:47:11 am »

Is it a case of going cold turkey and pushing her to the pm nap? We managed to take the AM nap out all together and she now naps from 12:30 but there were a few days of some being very creative with our morning activities to keep her going!

Martini~ · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2017, 10:49:26 am »

How long is the morning nap?

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2017, 11:00:34 am »

Would they not just let her have 10 mins say 10am to push her on, we have other problem daycare let them nap early then try and nap again at 12 ridiculous so he has mini cat naps all day x

Martini~ · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2017, 11:25:27 am »

Yep - that's my question. Go for 10-15min if you are letting her more than 20min - it might be the reason for EWU. If with a 10min catnap she still EW, she is ready for one nap and maybe it's worth to move the schedule for 8-8 so Nora can go for one nap at 1pm?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2017, 11:58:39 am »

8-8 meaning an 8am WU and 8pm BT? Unfortunately that can't happen, she is going to get dropped off at daycare at 7:15am which means she needs to be up at 6:30am at the latest because we need to give her breakfast and get her dressed etc. before we leave. Or just do that for the next few days?

Daycare can give her a short morning nap, I just think the chances of it happens are probably unlikely. I tried the same with DS when he first started daycare and he refused it...who wants to go nap when none of the other kids are!? Lol! Only time will tell on that one.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2017, 12:44:12 pm »

Okay ladies, DD had a few introductory mornings at daycare this week, and she did fantastic (yay!), but no morning nap, which is totally fine. She did 1-nap in the afternoons and slept between 2-2.5hrs and then BT slightly less than 4hrs later (7pm), which is all great...but still 5:45am WUs. What the...? Do you think it will just take some time to work itself out? I wouldn't think that 2/2.5hrs day sleep is too much on 1 nap?

Martini~ · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2017, 14:28:00 pm »

Seems totally fine, I would wait couple more days and see if she cope well.

How do you cope with going back to work?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2017, 14:39:44 pm »

I start back on Monday...currently pretending that Monday doesn't exist lol

Martini~ · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2017, 14:46:39 pm »

It will be fine... being honest with F I couldn't wait going back to work. Sitting at home with such a little baby all the time was really not for me:( felt much better when did have to go to work, however it was difficult to leave the baby at the nursery.

Keeping fingers crossed for both of you:)!

creations · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2017, 08:58:28 am »

Quote from: Lindsay27 on January 14, 2017, 12:44:12 pm

She did 1-nap in the afternoons and slept between 2-2.5hrs and then BT slightly less than 4hrs later (7pm), which is all great...but still 5:45am WUs. What the...? Do you think it will just take some time to work itself out? I wouldn't think that 2/2.5hrs day sleep is too much on 1 nap?

I think just let it settle for a while and then re-evaluate.
If the early morning continues after a couple of weeks I'd look at moving BT later. Assuming day care cant' move the nap later so it would just be a longer A time which is not ideal for all LOs of course but there might not be another option to to try.

Lovely news that she was happy there and amazing she had such a great sleep!
Good luck for Monday x

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2017, 11:19:02 am »

Ugh ladies, what the heck is going on!? She was up at 4:45am this morning! I left her to settle herself but it wasn't happening and she was getting very loud and I was afraid she would wake DS, so I tried APing her and she would fall asleep, but never into a deep sleep, so I gave up at about 6am. She is on the higher end in sleep needs so my gut tells me she's horribly OT. I mean I am obviously going to need to do 2 naps today.

creations · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2017, 22:30:43 pm »

Oh dear. Do you think there is a build up of OT or maybe OT/OS from day care??

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2017, 00:58:59 am »

I think yes, likely OS and OT build up. She had a 2hr NW last night...of course on the night before I start work. She's been sick with a cold and is cutting all 4 molars so everything is just kind of a mess right now. Daycare said she did a 2.5hr afternoon nap today which is good, but she was miserable when we got home at 5pm, she was so exhausted. So I can only pray she has a good night and that with good consistent afternoon naps she will come out of the OT, and I can maybe catch her up with 2 naps on the weekends if needed...though it might best to stay the path. We just seem to be getting into an EBT/EW cycle now.

creations · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2017, 19:47:43 pm »

Oh dear - that's so so hard.
Sorry all this is going on at once

hugs

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2017, 18:49:44 pm »

Ugh this just keeps going from bad to worse, both yesterday and today she's done 1 x 30min nap. She's at a point where she's just delirious she's so tired, but she won't sleep. I tried to settle her both days and she's back asleep within minutes, but then a few mins later would wake again. Today I tried staying with her until she was back in a deep sleep, and I swear she was, but 10mins later she was up. I just don't even know what to do to battle this level of OT. Both days I went for nap at 12 to try to be consistent with daycare. I mean the rest of the week it's out of my hands, so there is nothing I can do about it now. My stress level with going back to work is through the roof and this is just not helping on any level

creations · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2017, 19:03:45 pm »

Oh dear

Is there any chance she could have a micro nap in the car on the way home from day care? even 10 mins?

Any chance you can stay with her throughout the weekend nap just to get her to sleep a longer nap and get through some of the OT? Could you nap next to her or in the same room? it is very very rare for my DS to want me in the room when he sleeps (he is more likely to say "can you go now so I can sleep please") but there has been a couple of times when he was younger that my presence actually helped hugely with increasing a nap length - in fact I remember I had to leave the room for him to go to sleep and then go back in 10 min later. He slept so much better hearing my breathing.

hugs

Haribo2012 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2017, 19:25:34 pm »

Ah i feel for you, we are in rubbish sleep land since starting nursery. I know that's if no help to you but just so you know your not alone. I've had to let DS2 nap on me thurs/fri as couldn't get more than 20 mins out of him otherwise x

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2017, 21:22:02 pm »

Ya I tried everything today, I tried bringing her in my bed and getting her to sleep with me and it didn't work, she would fall asleep on me in the rocking chair but as soon and she was back in the crib she wake...I should have just rocked her for her whole nap. But because I am back to work nap time on weekends is my only time to accomplish anything at home, so I really just wanted her to sleep in her crib so I could do laundry, cleaning etc. Daycare is only a 2min drive from home so it's not long enough for her to sleep, and honestly at the end of the day we are in a pretty big rush to get home so I can start dinner...I only have about 1.45hr between when I get home and when she needs to be in bed, so time for dinner/bath etc is extremely limited.

I don't know, just feeling down a frustrated today...nothing got done, baby is overtired...it just feels like every aspect of life right now is failing and I can't get on top of it.

creations · « **Reply #37 on:** January 24, 2017, 18:56:46 pm »

Oh dear, you will get on top of it though.
Be kind to yourself too, you have a lot on and I totally understand feeling like you can't or don't want to APOP a whole nap, I had to really prepare myself mentally before I could APOP a whole nap, I really wasn't a fan of being trapped in one position for 2 hrs!

hugs

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 25, 2017, 00:49:31 am »

She's napping fine at daycare, so that's good. I think maybe on the weekends we just don't have enough stimulation at home to keep her going until 12:30, and then she ends up OT. Not sure what to do, I'll have to see how she is, we might have to do a short AM nap. I really would like to just stick with the daycare routine to keep it consistent, but obviously not if it's going to give me silly-short naps. I'm solo this weekend so I pray she doesn't pull any of this 30-min nap business.

creations · « **Reply #39 on:** January 25, 2017, 20:05:30 pm »

You're right - you cannot emulate the environment and amount of social and mental activity at home that day care gives.
good luck for this weekend

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 28, 2017, 18:54:21 pm »

Oh for the love of God ladies, what is happening!? So last weekend we tried for a one nap day both Saturday and Sunday, both of which resulted in 1 x 30min nap that I couldn't resettle, so not exactly a success. So today I thought...well, what we did last weekend didn't work, so this time I will try for a short AM/long PM. She woke at 5:30am (and yes, still battling the EWs) and we did the morning nap at 9:20-9:50...I was going to wake her but she ended up waking on her own. Attempted PM nap at 1:15pm, I went into her room and she fell asleep on me almost instantly (I was sitting putting on her sleep sac) but when I put her in the crib she woke up, so I tried to settle her with no luck, so I thought okay...I'll just leave her to it, and now an hour later she's still not sleep. I tired going back in and APing but that didn't work and just got me frustrated, so I just left her again.

I don't understand how Mon-Fri she is napping 2.5hrs every day and at home she is basically not napping at all. And it's not like she's not tired, I'm watching her on the monitor and she can barely even hold her head up.

Anybody have any suggestions?

During the week her routine is roughly:
WU 5:30/6
Nap 12:30-3
BT 7

Again, last weekend I tried to do the nap at 12:30 the same as a daycare day and we got 30mins. Gah! I just don't know, it feels like nothing is working

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 28, 2017, 21:14:07 pm »

So, update...

She fell asleep at 2:30 and slept until 4:15. So maybe she was UT at 1:15!? She really didn't seem like it when I went to put her down initially...but I guess it's possible. Anyone have any idea of what we should attempt tomorrow? Lol

I wish we could just replicate daycare! (I also wish for no more EWs, but let's not get carried away here lol)

creations · « **Reply #42 on:** January 29, 2017, 08:53:40 am »

This might sounds crazy but how about one very late nap? The long nap at day care follows high stimulation where as the same time at home is going to be understandably less stimulating. Mine did a 2-4 nap for ages (I forget the exact age but it was a long time) with 8pm BT and 6am WU - very very long morning A but short afternoon A.
Maybe don't go quite as late as 2pm because she did that 2.30 nap after having had 30 min in the morning didn't she? So, I don't know, 1.30pm but with no morning nap?? See if the additional hour gets her tired enough like at day care?

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 29, 2017, 10:55:02 am »

I completely get what you are saying, but honestly I don't think the the issue is that she's not tired, she's exhausted from these EWs. And yesterday when I tried at 1:15 she feel asleep immediately, she was literally upright while I was putting her sleep sac on and fell asleep like that, but then woke when I put her in the crib and then I think she was just so OT she couldn't settle. She was shattered after she woke up despite the long nap. 5:30am-1:30pm...that's 8 hours, there is no way I can keep her awake for 8 hours, it would be different if she had a normal WU time. And this morning she actually woke at 5:15am so that's even worse.

Ugh I just don't know. When DS dropped to 1 nap he settled on 1 fairly easily, and I think she could too if she wasn't up at the crack of dawn every damn day. She used to sleep until 6:30/45 and now I have a celebration if she makes it to 6.

Sorry I don't mean to shoot down suggestions, I just don't think I can keep her awake for 8+ hours. I think at daycare she literally just crashes from being so tired, and while she's getting a good long PM nap there, the evenings are rough and she's shattered, but it is what it is.

Lindsay27 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 29, 2017, 18:58:14 pm »

So today has gone a bit better, we did a 30min nap from 9:45-10:15 and she's just gone down for her PM nap at 1:50. So perhaps this can work but she needs more like a 3.5/45hr A between naps. We'll see how long she sleeps!

Update: I woke her at 4! Yay!

creations · « **Reply #45 on:** January 30, 2017, 18:45:31 pm »

Hurrah for a good day

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Author Topic: Short AM/long PM (Read 7535 times)