24 months old suddenly regressed

[Jess_C]

Hi
My son used it be the kind that I could put to bed and self settled. He regressed when we travel but I always been able to train him back by shsh at the door. But this recent regression caught me by surprise. For a week now he suddenly just won't self settle, both naps and night time. But night is worst. When I leave the room he ll scream. I hv been saying night night / shsh for an hour every night for a week plus and I don't see any progress. In fact, he even started waking up at night every 3/4 hrly. Sometimes a quick sh he is fine and sometimes I hv to sh in his room for hours. I really don't know what to do. I feel like giving up like all these sleep training is not working. Please help me.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi there!

It could be a sleep regression which often happen around birthdays and half birthdays in toddlers. Or teething? If it is either of those then keep going with your shhh at the door, and walk in/walk out if you need to and it will pass.

The other option could be time for a routine tweak? I found that the birthdays and half birthdays also coincided with routine changes & nap transitions  for my DS. Could you post his typical routine (wake up, nap and bedtime)?

[creations]

Agree with pp.

Also, at times like this where I have had call backs for up to an hour and my DS is not sleeping I have chosen to put to bed 30-60 mins later. While it might not be ideal for his routine I generally feel that with my DS it has helped him settle more quickly and at least I am not getting frustrated for an hour.  Once the regression. birthday/ development passes he usually just returns to normal bed time and normal self soothing. I've done this a few times now and it does seem to help for us.

[Jess_C]

His typical routine looks like this

Previously was wake up 8 am, nap 1 to 3, bed 8 pm


Now his routine is

Wake 7.15 nap 1 to 3 and bed time is 9.30 coz takes me an hr or so for him to fall asleep.

I tried keeping him up a bit. No difference.  Am not sure if tweaking routine will help.

Feel is more separation anxiet as he is extra clingy. I don't hv a good feeling about this. Already been a week.

Last night was bad, he woke at 2am I had to sh not long , then again at 4 ,6 . Don't he need to sleep? By 7 I tried to sh back cause I know he is still tired. But he won't go back. And am too tired to shsh

[Scottishmummy]

Could it be the start of the 1-0? Have you tried waking him earlier from the nap? It might be that he's not quite tired enough to go to sleep at BT, but then getting overtired, giving you a bad night.

Here's a link that might be useful- see section on napping but refusing BT:
The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

[Jess_C]

Sorry for the late report, I was away  without bub for a few days and that made separation anxiety worst. Is still the same drill really hard putting to bed. I did sh sh by side if his bed at bedtime if really hysterical I would put my hand briefly is almost a finger at times bad he settles quickly. He really just need me to me there regardless of whatever tweak I made in his routine. During the day he is sleep extra clingy and possessive. Nobody can touch me not even dad or my elder daughter.

During the night he would wake up once, and I would go in put my hand or sh and he ll settle back . He somehow just can't self settle and I really dunno what to do.

[Jess_C]

I wonder if he wakes at night knowing I ll go in.? I initially thought sh sh behind the door won't be a habit but it sometimes also feels like one. I hv tried walk in walk out but I didn't even walk out for long and he was so hysterical till he throw up .

I suppose I need to do it gradually but yet can't stay too long. How often do u all stay in the room when walk in ? And when do u go back in?

[Scottishmummy]

Hi,

It does sound like WI/WO might be a helpful approach. It is recommended for getting back on track when sleep is disrupted by SA.

I'll try to find you the link explaining the approach but there isn't a set time for staying in or out the room, it depends on your child. When I've used it, I've stayed in room until my LO is calm then walked out and continued to walk out if they start to cry BUT I've stayed right on other side of door listening. If the cries seem to be escalating, I go back in. WI/WO isn't CIO, there is often some crying but you listen and respond. Sometimes cries seem to settle, sometimes they escalate and you always respond to escalating cries before the LO is really really worked up.

Here's the link: Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
HTH Please come back if you want to chat through more

[Martini~]

And could you say more about his routine changes? One day with a later BT or shorter nap won't help. So let's check what have you tired and we might help more.

[Jess_C]

Hi

In terms of routine changes, I have tried pushing bed time by an hr, tried bringing forward Didn't work.

[creations]

Is he still napping well? 2hrs from 1-3pm?

[Martini~]

And how long did you try with a later BT, have you just pushed it at once and waited 7-10 days or you were introducing changes slowly?

[Jess_C]

Yes he still naps for 2 hrs at 1 to 3pm. I pushed the bed time at one go from 8.30 pm to 9 pm . Not really by choice, just happen with us going out and all.

[Martini~]

So it was only one day?

[Jess_C]

A few days actually his bedtime was ard 9 plus cause of all the Christmas festivities.

Today I woke him at 8.30 am and he nap from 1 to 3 pm . And I start to put him to bed at 8.45 pm and spend 30 min sh sh and saying night night at door for 30 mins. I think he slept around 9.15 pm. Let's see how the night goes.

My gut feel is separation anxiety but is been almost a month, gotten worst cause I had to go overseas last week. Strange thing is while I was away for 6 days. Towards the end of the trip, he sttn the last two nights. He slept 8.30 those nights. And my helper could put him down to sleep without him crying. Could it really be me? I feel so helpless. I can't be relying on my helper all the time.

So for now am trying to wake him by 8.30 am and wake him up from nap by 3 and target a bedtime by 8.3o to 9 latest. Putting to bed at door takes about half an hr which is not too bad but the real problem is he wakes between 2 to 4 am once and he is hysterical. I tried to sh sh at door first but usually cry is too full blown I end up lying on the floor saying sh or sometimes even just touching him lightly. I am so tired those hours I usually end up sleeping an hr or so and then crawling to my rook  at 6 am

[creations]

You said previously that he was waking at 7.15am but now you are waking him at 8.30am. So the thing is he is making up for his lost sleep by sleeping later in the morning.  This means the later BT does not do anything to reduce the amount of sleep he is getting so that he is more tired for a solid night.  It sounds more like he is UT and kicking up a fuss rather than SA to me - although SA is very real and can go on a while.  Some LOs drop their nap at 24 months or there is a substantial change in routine towards the nap drop even if it is not totally dropped.  Your options may only to be to wake him consistently in the morning to keep his night short with that long 2hr nap continuing or to cap the nap.  Capping the nap works wonderfully for some, so instead of 2hrs you give him 1hr 45 and BT and night sleep ought to improve.  It may need capping earlier of course but usually it is done in relatively small increments to see the effects.  Effects don't generally show in one or two days by this age but rather over a week or two.

[Jess_C]

Yea he is waking later these days even I have to wake him at 8.30 am.
I will definitely try waking him earlier next week with school reopening next week. Say 8 am and with naps I already capping at 2 hours as if I let him be I think he can nap longer.

What do u think if I wake him by 8 am and wake him up from nap by 3 and put to bed at 8.30pm.


Last night his routine was wake up 8.30 to 8.45 ( I can't really recall), nap 1 to 3pm. Wind down 8.30 and lights out at 8.45 pm but only slept at 9.15am  ( with me at the door). Last night woke once at 1am but I had to go in and sh in his room and touch gently cause he was so hysterical . When he calmed I just did sh sh on the floor . Was afraid any movements he ll wake up . by 2 am he slept back  and I woke him up at 8.45 am.

I probably should wAke him earlier but am just too tired.

[creations]

What do u think if I wake him by 8 am and wake him up from nap by 3 and put to bed at 8.30pm.

Honestly it doesn't sound different enough to what you are already doing.  It's just my opinion. You are the one with him of course.
This routine still expects 11.5 hrs over night sleep with a 2 hr nap.  He could well continue to wake in the night for long periods.
It's also expecting more sleep than he was doing a few posts back when he was waking at 7.15am napping 1-3 and going to bed at 9.30pm.

I'd more likely go for 7am WU, nap 1-2 and 8pm BT which gives 11hrs over night.  After a couple of days I'd consider capping the nap.
Mine didn't do well with a capped nap at all, he needed the 2hrs, but I accepted a much shorter night from 8pm - 6am, so only 10hrs.  Every LO is different of course.

[Martini~]

I would also avoid capping the nap and waking him in the morning. For a short period of time to regulate its fine, for a longer spell kids sleep needs fluctuate and it's good to have time when they can sleep in if they need it (growth spurt, some OT or OS etc). So I would firstly as Creations said think of how many hours of sleep you can expect, decide what is a priority for you - longer nap or longer night and if your LO prefers any. Then introduce a solid routine for 2/3 weeks with some tweaks if needed.

[Jess_C]

He does seem under tired now that you all mentioned. Yesterday, we were out for dinner and bub only went to bed at 10.30 pm after waking up from his 2 hrs nap at 3 pm. He sttn till 7.45 this morning. Not sure if is a fluke. But is the first time he sttn in a long while.


After much consideration, I think I would keep the 2 hr nap as that's really important for us. So much gets done in that 2 hrs. My question is how much sleep should they be getting at this age in total? So if 2 hrs nap means his night should only be 10 hrs.

[Jess_C]

I must admit I haven't been quite consistent with so much going on in our household. So am a little confused with his routine. Thanks so much for all the pointers. When school reopens next week, thing should stablished and I will be forced to wake him early.

So I ll try wake 7.30 am nap from 1 to 3 pm and bedtime at 9pm/9.30? I think that would work for us. And in the meantime when he wakes I ll keep going with wi/wo and shsh beside cot? My wi/wo always end up with me shushes by the cot if he is too hysterical.

What do u all think ? Thanks again. I really appreciate your time in helping me.

[creations]

Sounds like a good plan.
it's hard to guess what the total sleep needs is, it could be 12hrs. As marta says LOs can more easily regulate when there is one place where they can sleep longer if needed (ie if you wake him in the morning but he can nap longer if he wants to). I would also add though that if on a set routine you are regularly having to wake him in the morning I'd shift BT earlier to allow for a longer night and then he can wake naturally at the correct time.
With my DS he habitually woke at a set time morning and after 2hrs nap - he did not extend either his night sleep nor his nap when he needed additional sleep even though he logically had the opportunity to do so.  I had to move BT to make sure he got as much sleep as he could over night.  it was extremely rare for min to sleep past his body-clock WU time in the morning or to extend a nap - generally it would only be with illness.

[Jess_C]

So I have had success 3 days in a row. Day one he woke at 7.30 am nap from 1 to 3pm in bed at 10 pm. I did shsh at door but he got so unsettled pick him up and put him down standing and spoke to him. I told him night night time and point at cot no more crying. I did in a firm voice not shouting but firm enough. He immediately went To bed and sttn. I do feel bad is like I am doing a time out and disciplining him before bed. So he went to bed not crying while I just sat in his room in the dark.

Day 2 his routine was similar and I did the same thing and he went back to sleep after I did a time out again explaining to him in a firm voice and he went back to his cot quiet, and I sat there since he was quiet. He sttn that night.

Day 3 he woke at 8 am and nap for 2 hrs till 3 and I gave him an earlier bedtime 9 pm since am having always to wake him up in morning and naps. At bedtime , I put him down and he didn't cry when I left the room. I didn't hv to use time out and he sttn till 8.30 when I woke him up.


Not sure what will happen tonight. Have I done it right ? I don really like using time out to tell him but it seemed to work or maybe is just a fluke. Thankfully in day 3 he didn't need time out and for the first time I could leave the room. Any thoughts ?

[creations]

Personally I have no problem with speaking in a firm voice and telling LOs it's time for bed - they need their sleep.  You haven't shouted at him or belittled him or left him alone feeling abandoned, you have simply stated in a co-grey-area manner that it is night time so go to sleep.  I have done that plenty.

I agree if you are always needing to wake him in the morning and after nap he needs a longer night. Perhaps now that he is settling more readily (or now that you are confident to use a firm but fair tone to get him to bed) you can bring his Bt earlier.  I would keep morning WU consistent for a while so that he doesn't catch up then but rather put to bed earlier.

[Jess_C]

Thanks. He has been pretty good . I have been able to walk out the room without any tears or time out for a couple of days now. He did woke once last  night at 3 am, no idea why. I did a shsh and gentle pat and he went back to sleep.

Apart from last night he sttn four nights in a row , woke once in day 5. Is definitely a lot of better now than where we were last month. Praying we will get there soon and I really hope by 2 is the end of regression.

[creations]

It sounds like you are getting a much better night and overall routine.
What does your EASY look  like now?