Author Topic: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline chauncycay

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Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« on: December 19, 2016, 15:36:01 pm »
My DD is 25 mo and has had a rough track record to get to good sleep. I've followed many methods here and from Tracy's books along the way. We *just* got sleep the month before her 2nd birthday. Then we hit a few hurdles one right after the other, daylight savings time, right at her 2nd birthday and then immediately a virus from school and we can't shake the disruptions for sleep.
Help!
My guess is either one or a combo of:
-lingering snot/congestion waking her up
-separation anxiety
-spirited boundary testing

Routine is WU 6:15a (target, almost never hit it, but we were close before her birthday. I have an LED candle on a timer so she will stay quiet on me if she gets up, immediately calls out for me and I go in and hold her in bed until the candle turns on. This was our last hurdle...which I didn't mind. It was a long road getting here!)
Nap is anywhere between noon and 1:15 start for an hour and ~10 minutes (bad days 40 minute nap)
BT 7

Part of bedtime routine is bath, she's a super active messy one, it's necessary :-)
Even the past week she's screamed at not wanting bath, not getting wet. Clinging to me. I've gotten into the tub again with her and gotten her over it. She has taken a bath solo and willingly the past two nights, with a new light up fish toy from her birthday. We held many gifts back since she got very overwhelmed at birthday so it's "new" this week. Only bath toys to date have been simple foam letters and animals, nothing stimulating before bed. It's low lit with only candles and the Christmas tree in the house after 5:30p and even darker now that it's winter.

It's definitely some SA I believe. I don't want to ignore any real fears and cause real issues like fear of water or something awful later.  We're good with bath, for now :-)

BT there's a lot of "i want up on mommy! No nite nite time! I want to sleep in the big girl bed with mommy!!!!"
She's verbose... Before it was calm and only took ~15 minutes max and she'd settle by herself with me only occasionally saying sleepy words and patting her back very briefly.
So now I continue to hug her standing in her crib and shh, "nite nite time, lay down" "time to sleep, everyone is nite nite" "rest your eyes, rest your voice, quiet and still"
She's jumping up and down screaming, crying flipping out generally. It's a little crazy!
This goes on for a bit. I sometimes stop talking, kiss her head and walk out (she pauses as I'm walking out and then immediately starts again). I wait ~20 seconds and walk back in.
None of this really matters, it always is horribly dramatic and about an hour.
Then she passes out. I try to reduce any physical touch after the first 20 minutes so she can attempt to self soothe.
I try to leave while she's still wiggling around a bit.
Then same scenario at 9/10p ish for an hour, or two :(((
Then same at 3/4a ish.
At 3/4a, I give in and let her sleep on me in the "big girl bed" in her room.
This was my thing before after 4am I'd let her finish the night on me and it was gently leading us to her sleeping all night by herself. She'd gracefully gotten there just a few weeks ago.
I'm guessing I now have to remove this crutch?
I'm dreading it, because it will just mean another hour or two of screaming at 4am, which ends the night and starts our day.
Any tips to avoid world war three start of day? In our tiny house this means everyone is up, and super grumpy, all day from ~3/4 am. Very bad.
Oh, and she's done everything early and super passionately, can you tell?! ;)
Ugh.
I have a horrible ear infection and I'm getting migraines again.
Haven't had a full nights sleep in two years (I know I'm preaching to the choir). We were just there though, gahhhhh!
I shall await any glimmers of light from you ladies.
Thank you thank you.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 19:11:05 pm by chauncycay »



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 19:14:39 pm »
And per the pediatrician we've started melatonin drops before bath (20 minutes before bed) 1mg every night.
This really helped. We started about 3 months ago.
I only give her pain meds when teething or fever.
She's finally got all teeth except the final back molars.
So it's not sickness or pain.
And we snot suck her, every night, after bath.
Horrid, but it's prevented sickness.
I'm the only one with an ear infection ;p

I definitely need more sleep so I can do some self care...



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 21:54:00 pm »
Hugs, sorry you're feeling unwell.

Could her fighting sleep and night waking be developmental? There's often a leap around birthdays and half birthdays which disrupts sleep. I saw a suggestion from another mod here to try moving BT temporarily later during developmental leap and see if that helps- so try a 7.30-8pm BT. I'm pretty sure we had to for my DS around the same age. In fact he kept the later BT until he dropped his nap at almost 3yo when he needed earlier again.

Other option could be that she's starting the transition to dropping her nap and just isn't tired enough at BT? If the slightly later BT doesn't help, have a read of this link and see if any of the suggestions sound like possible options for your DD: The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2016, 01:36:47 am »
Thank you so much for the reply!
So Saturday night we had a first play date dinner and didn't get her in bed until 7:45p and she was up and down most of the night. Total disaster.
So how would we gracefully shift her BT? I'm willing to try anything, just need to know how to avoid adding OT to the mix.
We may already be battling that given the terrible sleep disruptions. I want to keep the nap, whatever she'll do, at this point. She's a disaster without something. Not quite ready to give it up.



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2016, 01:47:05 am »
Oh and I can't find how long the developmental leaps or separation anxiety periods generally last?
I'm not sure which one this is.
I'm guessing a couple of weeks? Longer?
We're out of school for winter break for two weeks so this might be good timing. We're all home.
January may be rough going back! Eek!



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2016, 20:18:21 pm »
Ok... so last night she might have been OS & OT from late play date and big jump to later BT, but your post makes me wonder whether sleep disruption is actually an OT build up, in which case try an earlier BT and see if that helps. My DS' sleep sometimes goes wrong if he gets too tired and we do a night or 2 of EBT (6.30) which often helps catch up and gives better longer sleep.

If that doesn't work try pushing BT later by 15mins or so then another 15mins after 3-4days. Keep all WD the same, just a little later.

If that doesn't work you might be in 1-0 territory so try the tips for LOs who refuse BT in the link I sent you.

Sleep disruption from developmental leaps usually isn't much more than a couple of weeks, if more than that you might need a routine tweak.

Did you say she had all her teeth? Just wondering if 2yo molars could be causing her discomfort & NW?
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2016, 22:23:45 pm »
Yes, I think you're right she's definitely got OT and probably a build up from bad sleep while sick with congestion/coughing. We now just have lingering snot. Lovely :( but no coughing or fever thankfully.
We'll go a bit earlier. Last night we did 6:50p and she was up (standing, calling out) at 10p, but I got her back down super quick so not much interruption.
Then 2am, no holds barred, full on meltdown for up on mommy in big girl bed. I tried getting her back down twice and it just got her revved up. It took about 3 hours for her to settle on me. During which I had to snot suck her four times, by request at the end "mommy help with my nose" :(((
I hid the candle so she didn't wake up until 9:30a.
But all in all she still only got ~10 hours of sleep. I think I got three :(
We'll keep at it and hopefully she won't get really sick and we all end up healthy for the holidays!
Thank you so much! I'll report back...



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2016, 13:16:51 pm »
Oh my, that is a bad night.  It does sound like possible OT build up.  I hope you all get some more rest soon xxx
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Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2016, 19:26:45 pm »
So I'm not sure if this is better or worse.
There's definitely lots of snot, and one of her back 2 year molars is a red bubble. That's just starting so it will be a while.
She went down same time 6:50p
Asleep close to 7:20p, very screamy "up on mommy!!!" Even though we'd talked calmly about sleeping in our own beds beds in nice happy agreement right before... You know.
Then she peacefully laid down after hugs and talked softly about "I'm sleepy, I'm tired, I go to sleep now".
Up at midnight, very insistent on sleeping in big girl bed with mommy. I tried gently hugs and getting her down three times, just made her all upset. Screamed the house down. This of course increases the snot and she can't breathe so she at least now asks for "help with my nose". I have to turn on the candle and take her out of the crib to snot suck. She actually let's me do it in the middle of the night which is good. Then getting her back in the crib... Next to impossible. So she was on me from that point.
She spent at least three hours on me in the big bed, wiggling, kicking the wall, giggling, singing!!!, I sorry mommy, I sleepy, I sleep now. I grumpy. On and on... She then head butted me so hard I yelped, right in my other ear. So then my heads ringing, throbbing. She is super quiet and then "I sorry mommy. You ok mommy?" Ugh. So sweet but so crazy!!! I had to put her in her crib to get some ibuprofen and an ice pack for myself. I told her I needed to get medicine and an ice pack and I'd be right back. She was miraculously quiet. Stood in the crib and waited. I came back she grabbed me tight and wouldn't let go, so back in the big girl bed we go. This was around 3:15am. It probably took another 30-45 minutes for her to settle in and fall asleep. Then up at 7am (I hid the timer candle when I went to fetch the ice pack).
We'll try earlier but it's hard to get it done faster with the dinner and WD/bath.
I feel like I'm going insane!
I adore this crazy spirited, verbose, little person, but I really need to get better... Hard to keep up! DH just hugged me this morning and said, "go lay down in the guest room, the heater is on". Bless him :-)



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2016, 21:57:13 pm »
That sounds exhausting. If she slept until 9.30 am she may have used that to catch up on sleep and be ok with 6.45/50 BT today.

Can you use any pain relief remedies for her teeth?

 I know this is going to sound a little strict, but I wonder whether you need to try less interaction and a no getting into your bed rule at night. It sounds like being in with you isn't giving either of you a restful night. Could you try walk in/walk out? Go in reassure with 1 set phrase (I use "sleepy time, night night" then out again.  If she gets out of bed, put her back with only that phrase. Gentle but firm.  She will shout for the first nights and they will be hard, as she's used to the interaction but after a night or 2 hopefully she will learn the new routine. It would be a very tricky night or 2 but an overall gain after that, so worth it?

Could your DH help out with this? Sometimes a different person going in also helps to change sleep habits.

Can you help her with her nose without getting her out of bed?

I hope things improve for you soon.
Xx
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2016, 22:44:36 pm »
I totally agree. I knew the crutch of sleeping on me would bite me in the bottom :(
Ok so I'm deliriously sick and not strong enough to tackle the battle for long. She's a *fighter*. When we did this before it took 3-4 hours of hug/words/pd/screaming/stand up/repeat.
Utterly exhausting. I've had to do this it seems like for about 5-9 days each time, about every 4 months? I guess it's tine again. I'm tearing up just thinking about it. Only because I'm already so tired and sick. If my ears would stop this persistent ringing I think I could handle it.
So my DH agrees this is what we need to do. He absolutely can't handle it. So it's on me. He'll take over days so I can recover. Do I bite the bullet and start now, or wait to next week to see if the separation anxiety gets better? :((((( dreading.



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2016, 22:49:04 pm »
And yes, we'll do a dose of ibuprofen and the melatonin tonight to help relieve any teething/sinus pain.
I'll try to snot suck in her crib. I think the gain from it is less when she's screaming anyway :(
Ugh. Soooooo dreading this!
Sweet, crazy, willful, spirited, beautiful child.
And WI/WO really upsets her, but I'll try to add that in to the mix again. They change a bit constantly so who knows?!



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2016, 14:03:45 pm »
Success!!!! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
In crib at 6:50p, a bit of protest for big girl bed, and I only used shhh, "nite nite, sleep well" once. She threw blankets out of crib and then laid down and was asleep by 7:05!
Up at midnight, got her back down with only "nite nite". Protests, I did WI/WO. She flipped out the first couple of times. Then laid down and asleep within 10 minutes!
Back up at 12:45 a.m., same drill. And then..... Slept through until 6:05 am!!!!!!
 AMAZING!
We have fun morning activity planned with cousins, gingerbread house making.
Hoping nap and tonight go well too. Fingers and toes crossed :-)



Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 14:20:58 pm »
Your last post made me so happy.. an early Xmas present  ;D

I'm sorry I didn't reply to your earlier posts, my DS has been really unwell and I've not been in here for a day or 2. I'm so glad you had a much easier time than expected and I hope you get some rest & recovery for yourself too now

Xx
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline chauncycay

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Re: Major SA affecting sleep, need help (I'm sick)
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2016, 14:08:41 pm »
Happy Christmas, Scottishmummy! :-) :-) :-) I hope your little guy feels better soon. Tis the season :( we just made a big batch of elderberry syrup. It helps, and makes the house smell delicious too. I put it on a blueberry waffle for my DD this morning...
We had a few of the same up a couple of times but down, fairly quickly. Then one bad night (Friday?) where she was up 1.5 hours in the middle. (It's never super easy right?)
Then Christmas morning she slept through until 5:30! :-) and the same yesterday, but up once in the middle, and today slept through until after 6 a.m.!!!!!
Soooooo happy. And I'm finally off of antibiotics. Whew!
Here's hoping everyone starts the New year healthy and *rested* :-) XoxOxoxo