7 month old chronic short 20-30min naps

[laura034]

Hi all I'm really hoping someone can help me. My son Oliver has been short napping since he was 8 weeks old they used to be 45mins then they dropped to 30 now sometimes they are only 10-20 minutes long! Because of the short naps he still needs 4naps to get through until bedtime. He goes to sleep like a dream thank goodness normally within 5mins of me putting him in his cot with no props. A typical day is.

6.30 wake
9 sleep 20mins on school run
10.50 sleep 30mins
1pm sleep 30mins then apop breastfeed back to sleep for another 30mins
4.30pm sleep 20mins
Bedtime 7pm normally wakes twice in night for a quick breastfeed

Oliver has reflux and diary soya allergy but both are under control. My second son was a short nap per too and didn't take a long nap until around 18months old so I'm really hoping to be able to extend Oliver's naps before then.

Thanks so much Laura

[Scottishmummy]

Hi there!

I wonder if that first short nap is throwing the rest of the day off? I appreciate it is on the school run but Is there anyway you can extend that I.e walk or drive for longer even to get 30-45 mins. That might mean he could manage a longer 2nd A time and longer nap middle of the day?

At this age I think much DS was doing something along lines of

Wu: 6.30
A=2.5-3hrs (Milk and breakfast)
Nap: 9-9.30/45 (he woke himself after short nap)
A= Around 2.5hrs (Milk, play, early lunch)
Nap : 12/12.30ish for 1.5-2hrs
A=around 2.5hrs (Milk, play)
Nap: 4-4.30
A= Around  2.5hrs (Tea, milk)
BT: 7pm

[laura034]

Thanks for getting back to me! Your routine looks like my dream routine! I've sometimes managed to get the first nap up to 30mins by driving around if he falls asleep on way home not on the way there as he always wakes when I get him out of the car.

Today I managed to keep him up for 2hrs 10min before his 1st nap and he slept 40min which is a good nap for Oliver so today went like this

7.40 wake (later than normal because of 2hr night waking!)
9.50 sleep 40min
12.50 sleep 30mins then breastfed back to sleep and held him for a further 1hr nap.
4.45 nap 30min
Bed 7.30

I just wondered how I can get Oliver to stretch out his awake time he is yawning and cranky after only 1.5 hours and if we are out in the car or pushchair he always falls asleep so it's been a real struggle to get him past 2hrs today.

Thanks Laura

[Scottishmummy]

Sometimes with A time it helps to push it gradually e.g. 10-15mins every 2-3 days. He could be tired earlier due to short naps though.

Is he an independent sleeper for his naps? I.e. Can he fall asleep completely by himself, without any feeding or movement to help? Just wondering whether a reliance on a prop to sleep and transition through cycles could be contributing to those short naps?

[laura034]

Hi thanks I will try and push the A time slowly because he is really struggling. Today has been tough he has only been happy for 1hr of all his A times today I've tried to keep him up longer but his eyes shut the moment he is put in his cot so he must have been tired enough even though his first a time was only 1hr 45. Our nap routine is walk round the house with me carrying him to quiet him down I sing to him and put him in his cot with his muslin cloth he likes to snuggle and then I leave so he goes to sleep completely by himself the only AP I do is when he wakes in his cot after his afternoon nap I breastfeed him back to sleep and hold him just to give him that extra bit of sleep. Today went like this

Wake 7am
Nap 8.45 25 mins
Wake 9.10
Nap 11.25 25mins
Wake 11.50
Nap 1.20 40min then breastfed for another 45min
Wake 3.00
Nap 4.50 30mins

I'll aim to have him asleep for 7.30.
Can teething make babies need a shorter A time? It just seems like he can't keep up with an age appropriate routine he's 8 months in a week

Thank you for your advice I really appreciate having someone to share this with.

[Scottishmummy]

I think teething can make LOs cranky and he will be more tired if he's getting NW with teeth. Could also be a developmental leap? That can make LOs more tired and grumpy.

What time is BT and How are his nights? Just wondering if late CN could be disturbing night sleep and therefore making him more tired in the day?

[laura034]

Hi, bedtime is normally between 7 and 7.30 he then normally wakes twice for a quick breastfeed lately around midnight and then again around 5 he can wake anytime from 6-7.30.

It could be a development thing making him extra sleepy I never thought of that he has just mastered sitting and rolling from tummy onto back. His teeth were really causing trouble the last 2 days he wouldn't have hardly any solid food at all but today he seems a bit better and his gums aren't red anymore but yesterday they were! I'm sure his teeth come down and then go back up 😀. Today went like this:-

Wake 6.05
7.30 fell asleep while having first bfeed of the day slept 45min
Wake 8.15
10.30 nap 40min
Wake 11.10
1.20 nap 30min followed by 45min bfeed nap
Wake 2.45
4.35 nap 30min
Wake 5.05
I'll aim for bed time around 7.15

Thanks laura

[Buntybear]

Teeth and leaps can really pay havoc with routines and really it is a matter of surviving those times until things settle and you can try and figure out how to get back on track again! 2 hr NWs are obviously gong to have their effect on day time routines too.

I would say when extending A times you do have to push them through their sleepy signs. Their body clocks need shifting and they often need help with that!

[laura034]

Hi we had a long nap today!!!!

Wake 6.30
Nap 8.55 on school run 25mins
Wake 9.20
Sleep 12.10 2hrs!!!
Wake 2.10
Sleep 4.25 25mins

I'll aim for bedtime 7.15
I really hope it works again tomorrow I've never let him get that tired before he was crying through his dinner so I'll try and give him an early lunch tomorrow

Thanks Laura x

[Buntybear]

Yay that is great 

[Scottishmummy]

Yeah that is great!

Looks like he's needing A times of around 2.5hrs but might need a bit of time to get used to them, but try to stick with them to establish the routine.

As I said in my first post, some LOs do fine on a short-long-short nap routine, my DS did. Fingers crossed the pattern repeats itself tomorrow :-)

[laura034]

Hi, well last night and today all went wrong we had the normal 2 night wakings the last one being at 4.45 then he was up for the day by 5.40! I left him chatting in his cot for 30mins then he started to get himself upset so I got him up. So today went

Wake 5.40
Sleep 7.15 10mins while feeding
Wake 7.25
Sleep 8.40 school run 25mins
Wake 9.05
Tried to keep him awake but after 1.50 he started screaming and arching his back with his eyes shut so put him in his cot and he cried a lot which is unlike him I did pupd for 10mins and he was asleep but only 25mins
Wake 11.25
Sleep 1.15 30min extended by breastfeed 45min
Wake 2.55
Sleep 4.50 10mins woke by phone

So a bit of a tough day. Do you think perhaps he doesn't need longs naps seems he had an early waking after having that good nap yesterday. I really want him to cut down to 3 naps but with early waking I don't see how I can get him through the day. Thanks Laura

[Scottishmummy]

It's hard to say on only 1 bad day.  I have seen other LOs on here occasionally  who only ever do short naps until they consolidate to 1 nap around 12-18mo.  And you say your older son only ever did short naps?  However, he did a big leap in A times from 2hrs or less to 2.5hrs which could cause OT.

So it's your choice whether you want to try to push A times more gradually for at least one longer nap,
Or whether you want to stick with shorter A times but probably also 3-4 shorter naps with that.

[laura034]

Hi another tough day today although we did get one good nap. Oliver definitely isn't getting enough sleep he was so unhappy this morning and was refusing to eat. I was convinced he was ill and nearly rang the Drs but then he had a long nap and was all smiles and ate all his lunch. But I just don't know how to get him to sleep more! Today was

Wake 6.15
Nap on school run 8.45 25mins
Nap 10.45 1.5hr
Nap 1.45 40mins
Nap 4.45 15mins

Bed 7.15
Does anyone have any ideas how I can get more sleep for Oliver
Thanks Laura

[lolsyb1982]

Hi it's tough when you can't get the routine you'd like isn't it!

I think if you're unable to push his A times you may need to accept that he'll need 3 shorter naps until he can handle more.

Today's routine I would have pushed that A time after the 2nd nap. Looks like he only had 1.5hr A after that nice long nap? He only slept for 40mins which probably meant he was UT.

It can take some time for LO to settle into a routine when A's are pushed but you do need to be consistent so they have a chance to adjust and yes some OT can accumulate but often it'll start to work in your favour after a while and they'll crash and sleep longer.

[laura034]

Hi, I think things are moving in the right direction Oliver seems to be coping better with the longer A times and today we got another 2hr nap!

Wake 6
Nap 8.10 35mins
Wake 8.45
Nap 11 2hrs! We were at church and had a really busy morning with Oliver getting passed around so I think perhaps he needs more stimulation than being at home with me.
Wake 1
Nap 4 35 mins

I will aim for bed at 7 I really hope this continues actually managed to do lots of cleaning today 😄

[Scottishmummy]

Great news! Stick with it! As you say,  a lot of LOs start to need a bit more than just being at home after 6mo.  It's tricky to get out & back for lunch and do something in a 2.5hr window but can work if you have any local baby groups?

[laura034]

Hi, we are still trying to stick to 3 naps but not had anymore long naps yet even though I took him to play group this morning it still wasn't enough to get more sleep. We had 3 night wakings too 10.30 1.00 then 3 could this be caused by OT?
Today was
Wake 7.10
Nap 9.05 school run 30mins
Nap 12 40 mins then breastfed back to sleep and held for an extra 40mins
Wake 1.40
Nap 4.15 30mins

Bed 7pm

Laura x

[Scottishmummy]

I'm never very sure about NWs, there seem to be so many things which could cause them! Is he upset when he wakes? That can be a sign of OT.

I wonder with that 2nd nap if he is waking for a feed out of habit which might be giving you the consistently broken nap..  Have you considered trying to resettle using either sh-pat or PU/PD?

[laura034]

Hi we are still struggling on here. I think I've made things worse going to 3 naps but he refuses to have 4 now. Oliver seems tired a lot of the time and now he's crying before bedtime which he hasn't done before and he's crying after his night feeds to plus his wake times getting earlier! Today was like this

Wake 6
Nap 8.40 school run 35min
Wake 9.15
Nap 12 1hr
Nap 4.30 10mins And wouldn't resettle
I'll aim for bed at 7

I have tried to extend his naps but as he wakes happy he just smiles and me and doesn't go back to sleep
He is upset when he wakes but quickly calms down when I feed him last night he cried when I put him back in his cot after each feed. Any more ideas, am I missing something thanks Laura x

[lolsyb1982]

I think the fact he doesn't resettle and is happy could well mean he needs some more A time, especially before nap 2.  Try 3hr A after that first school run nap to see if you get a longer one. I would imagine all the short naps are causing some OT by the end of the day and what we call an UT/OT loop. It really is a case of pushing A's and riding out the OT until you get longer more restorative naps.

Most LO this age have already dropped the 3rd nap or are well on the way to just 2 naps. Have you had a read of the 3-2? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[laura034]

I have read about it but just don't think he could handle the long A time before bed as the latest he could sleep would be 3 as I have to leave for the school run I will just keep on doing what I'm doing and hope he grows out of it. My second son did but not until 18 months old which seems a really long way away!

[laura034]

Hi all,

Well things have improved nap wise but now we have a problem with early waking!
Since pushing A times we are managing to get at least one long nap a day which has been lovely we even managed to get through the 3 to 2 transition! Although now we have had to AP a 3rd nap just to make it though to bed time, yesterday went like this.

Wake 5.15 kept in bed until 6
Nap 8.45 20min on school run
Nap 12.00 1.5hrs
Nap 4.15 15mins
Bedtime 7.45 ( a bit later because we were out)

Woke once for a feed in the night then woke for day at 5.05 I even tried feeding back to sleep but nothing worked! Any ideas would be really appreciated

Thanks Laura x

[angel_uk]

You might not reply as its been a while but how did u manage to art it out at the end. My little. One is similar and we are hoping for some routine with school runs now. He struggles to stay awake.