3-2 transition?

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just wondering if I could get some advice. My DD2 will be 6 months next week and naps have always been tricky since birth. She is a chronic short napper from about a few weeks old, even when I have stuck to the right A time. My DD1 was a short napper from 3 months but at around 6 months she began to take longer naps, so I'm hoping that it will be the same for DD2 and is partly developmental. However she is not an independent sleeper whereas by this age DD1 was so this is likely to have helped with extending nap length.

So, due to short naps we don't have a set EASY right now which we follow. Right now I am sticking to 2.5 hrs of A time and usually she has around a 30 min nap. I often nowadays can AP her back to sleep by rocking her but this roughly can take 30-45 mins but she can sometimes sleep for another hr from this. However also she is an eternally happy baby so even after a 30 min nap she will be settled.

Up until now I have been able to go with the flow but now she is having some night wakes which I think are due to the 3-2 transition. Just in the last few days she has been waking often hourly from around 7-11 pm. Her waking in the early evening is not unusual as due to not having an established EASY she is always OT at bedtime. However suddenly it has become more frequent and also today I tried to get her down for what would have been a 3rd nap of the day but she would not go to sleep and fought it so I had to give up on it as DD1 also needed my attention.

So I am wondering if I need to start extending her A time right now to help with the 3-2 transition, I can't remember what I did with DD1, I think it was all a bit messy. Also I am wanting to start sleep training too in the next week or so but I want to try to get the right A times in place first as I know from my experience of sleep training DD1 it make it a lot easier.

Thanks!

[lolsyb1982]

Hi definitely sounds like the 3-2 to me. Have you read this sticky? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Average A times for 6 months range from 2.5-3hrs so I would try increasing to see if it helps with your naps. My dd2 didn't learn to transition between sleep cycles until 7 months.

Being an IS will also help her if she wakes early so you might like to think about working on that?

[Hayleys]

Thank you! I hadn't seen that sticky! It's really helpful! I'm going to try increasing her A times gradually up until 3 hrs then. Yes I do want to start sleep training soon. I'll just try to increase the A times first as I'm sure it will help with that too!

Thanks again!

[Hayleys]

Hi

Over the last 3 days I have tried to follow more of a routine with my little one and I have seen an enormous improvement with her night sleep. Thank you for that sticky as it jolted my memory to try for short cat nap before BT and I think this is really helping.

So as she is a chronic short napper and going through the 3-2 what I'm trying to do is increase her A time for the first nap to see if this helps. The second nap I am getting her to take in the pushchair or car so the motion gets her back to sleep once she wakes. This way she is guaranteed to have a longer nap. Then for the catnap, this is again in either the pushchair or car as previously she has been refusing to sleep then. I'm just wondering if you could take a look at my EASY and see if you think it looks ok. So I'm hoping that she will start to take a longer first nap soon so I can then increase the second A time and drop the catnap.when she usually wakes after 35 mins she is happy but sometimes wants a shorter A time and in fact I need to do that to fit the cat nap into the day. Do you think all of this is ok?  Here is how the last few days have looked:

WU 7:30
A time 2 hrs 35 mins
S 10:00 - 10:25
A time - 2 hrs 20 mins
S - 12:45 -2:05
A - 2 hrs 25 mins
S 4:35 - 4:55
A time 2 hrs
BT put down 6:55 asleep at 7:30 pm

WU 7:25
A time  3hrs 20 mins (took longer as was using PU/PD. Also I wasn't sure if she was hungry so gave her some milk half way through)
S 10:45 - 11:45 (heard her wake and put herself back to sleep by sucking her thumb. Had to wake her after an hr as needed to fit her other naps in the day and work around the school run)
A time 1 hr 55 mins
S 1:40- 2:15 (in the car)
A time 2 hrs 25 mins
S 4:40 - 4:55
BT put down at 7 pm asleep at 7:30 pm

So I have been aiming for 2 hrs 45 for the first nap but she has seemed quite tired by then.  We had a really long A time this morning which was way too long perhaps due to PU/PD or hunger but she did transition and get herself back to sleep.

Also I'm not sure if you can help me with this but I've been working on trying to get her to sleep independently at both the first nap of the day and at BT but obviously I can't for the other two naps. This has been going incredibly well. So previously I have always rocked her to sleep in my arms. A few days before starting the sleep training she started to suck her thumb. This has proven to be an enormous comfort to her and she straight away began using her thumb to get herself to sleep. I decided to use the PU/PD method as I did this previously with my DD1 and DD2 doesn't respond well to shush pat. So on the first day I laid her down, she started sucking her thumb and she was asleep in 10 mins!! I was so shocked! I've continued for 2 days now and she hasn't actually cried as such during the process! It's amazing how well she seems to be responding to it so far. She has an extremely placid temperament and since around 3 months she never generally cries anyway. If she is bothered by something then she will moan instead of cry. Of course she would cry though if she was extremely hungry etc but I obviously never let it get to that point. So my uncertainty with pu/pd is that she is moaning at times in her cot while she is trying to get to sleep, particularly at BT when I'm not sure if she may be ut or not? The sound is rhythmic and sounds like she is trying to get herself to sleep. However if it escalates then I have been picking her up, I wouldn't say it's a cry though but it's the moaning sounds which she makes in the day if she wants me.  When I pick her up she immediately stops and starts sucking her thumb in my arms. I lie her back down and she will be very quiet continuing to suck her thumb. So I'm just wondering if you know I'm on the right track with picking her up when she does this as she is not actually crying but doesn't generally anyway!! It's a very different experience to what I had with DD1!!

Thanks!

[Hayleys]

Oh just wanted to add that she has been waking at around 5 am but then I have so far been able to get her back to sleep. Since establishing this routine her nights have improved ten fold - I can't believe the difference!! Also just wanted to add that they began to improve before I started the sleep training so I'm sure it's routine related!

[lolsyb1982]

Great progress!

I would say if it's just moaning when you're doing pu/pd just try holding off that little bit longer to see how she does.
It's amazing isn't it how nights are so affected by daytime sleep.

That first day EASY looked like a really good day and seemed to work well so once shes settling by herself I would stick to those A times.

[Hayleys]

Thank you! We had some more success today as she went back to sleep on her own during her first nap. It took her 20 mins to do it but she then fell into a solid sleep and I actually had to wake her as it was getting late. She also went to sleep for this nap on her own without me having to pick her up at all!! What time do you think Imshould put her in the cot if I'm aiming for a 2hr 40 min A time. Do you think 20 mins is too long?

Here is our EASY from the day:

WU 7:30 am
A time - 2 hrs 40 mins
S 10:10 - 11:50 (put down at 9:50 and took 20 mins to fall asleep. Woke after 35 mins but went back to sleep 20 mins later).
A time - 1 hr 55 mins
S 1:45 - 2:15 (in the car)
A time - 2 hrs 30 mins
S 4:45 - 5 pm
A time 2 hrs 30 mins
BT put down at 7 pm and asleep at 7:30 pm

So unless you now think otherwise I will stick to 2 hrs 40 mins A time for her first nap. Her second A time is becoming quite short at around the 2 hr mark and I also am beginning to notice that she seems to be taking a bit longer to fall asleep in the pushchair for that last cat nap of the day!! I know that eventually she will drop this but could this possibly be quite soon?

At BT she did actually cry a little after a while (the first time she has done this) so I picked her up a few times. I did notice that she looked very tired actually so not sure if she found it harder to fall asleep because of this. I'm aware that her quantity of day naps is probably quite low. It's early evening now and she has woken within the first hr but fell back to sleep immediately. She does seem to be in a light sleep though. She slept well last night but I did hear her getting herself back to sleep a few times whereas the night before she had a very solid sleep. We'll see what the night brings but so far the difference has been amazing and I've also been able to have an evening to myself for a few days - yay!

[Hayleys]

Hi

I just wanted to add that I am having to wake her at 7:30 am to start the day. This is because I need to feed her before the school run. The last few days she has seemed very tired still. I don't want her WU time to be any earlier as I think she is more likely to fall asleep on the school run. In fact today she was about to drop off to sleep so I took her out of the pushchair and carried her for a short way and this worked well as it woke her up. It was freezing so I put extra blankets on her and the warmth proberly made her more sleepy. She is fine now we are home and I think I should be able to stick to that A time.

So again last night she slept well. She soon got herself into a deep sleep after I posted and I didn't hear her then until 5 am. She was lightly sucking her thumb. I gave her some milk and she went back to sleep within about 20 mins. I don't think she is stirring and sucking her thumb at other points in the night. I am in the same room as her but she does this really quietly - it has woken me before so I think she is sleeping through but can't say for 100 per cent. Every moroning since starting this new routine she is waking at 5 am. I think she is actually hungry at that point though.

[Scottishmummy]

Hi!
Some tiredness is inevitable with any nap transition. With 3-2 Especially I always felt like my DD was alternating between UT & OT for a while.

How have last few days gone?

[Hayleys]

Hi!

Generally well thanks! There has certainly been a massive improvement!

She has been getting herself off to sleep on her own for her first nap of the day with no pick ups. For two days then  she woke at the 35 min mark but went back to sleep after 20 and then 10 mins. This is after 2 hrs 35 mins A time. Yesterday with the same A time she didn't go back off to sleep though. I just thought today that I would try a little longer to see if that help but then got distracted by DD1 and by the time I tried to put her down she was a bit of a teary mess. She never usually cries at this nap time so I'm thinking that perhaps this was too much for her. She has been taking about 15 mins to fall asleep in her cot.

She was a teary mess at BT the other day and I thought she was probably OT then too. I put her down a little earlier yesterday and she settled mush more easily, only 2 pick ups and she was asleep. Nights are good. Sometimes she does wake at the 35 min mark or so but has been going back to sleep. The last two night she had been waking again at around 12 pm and 2am and then at 5 am and 6 am but seems hungry. Also a bit more hungry in the day - think she may be having the 6 month growth spurt. We are introducing solids this weekend as she turned 6 months yesterday. So all in all good but feel that I am winging it with lots of APed naps. Was going to post the EASY for the last few days but managed to delete it as I was copying it - ugh!

[Scottishmummy]

That sounds good!

Everyone feels like they are winging it! And AP naps typical for a transition. I tried to get IS for naps 1&2 as they are ones that were staying but had to AP 3rd nap quite often in transition.

Hope intro of solids goes well
Xxx

[Hayleys]

Thanks! x