HELP! 6 month old naps/sleep going to shambles

[peepip]

Hi everyone, I been lurking this forum for a while, but I decided it is time to take the plunge.

My 6 month old boy has never been a great napper. At 3.5 months he was probably having his best sleep. 1+ hour naps and 10+ hours at night.

Now, while his night sleep is okay (7hrs average) his day sleep is worse than ever. I'm 99% sure his night sleep is going downhill because of his terrible day sleep.

typical day:

6.30am WU (although lately he has been waking anywhere between 4.40am-5.45am and sometimes won't go back to sleep!)
7:30 Feed (I offer at 6.30 but he usually won't take a full feed)
8:30 - 9:00 Sleep
9:00 - 11:00 Awake (feeding at around 10am)
11:00 - 11:30 Sleep
11:30 - 2:30 Awake (feeding around 1pm)
2:30 - 3:00 Sleep
3:00 Feed
6:15 Sleep (will usually have 1-2 wakeups for food)

Is his bedtime too early? I have tried pushing his naps later to get a later bed time, but he just wants to be asleep before 6.30 otherwise he gets very upset...

OH and we are starting solids next week...so that will add another spanner into the works

Thanks for reading my very long essay! Please help!

[lolsyb1982]

Hi there and welcome 

You mention his night sleep only averages 7 hrs but you haven't mentioned his NW in your schedule. Can you describe his nights? Long periods of being awake? Short but frequent wakings?

Ok so working on day sleep. He is probably very OT from all the short nights and naps. His A times are on the short side for his age which may be why he's not taking longer naps. Here's a really useful link for average A times Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! .

I think you will need to increase them to around 2.5hrs to begin with. Hopefully this will lengthen the nap. Also around this age babies work towards dropping the 3rd nap which you will need to keep in mind if you do start to get longer ones. I've attached another link for you to have a read through All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

You ask if his bedtimes too early - definitely not if he's only having those short naps. I actually would be tempted to try even earlier for a day or two to try and combat some of the OT that's built up.

Hope some of that helps but do come back to chat some more x

[peepip]

Thank you for the reply!

He wakes around 12.30 for a feed then straight back to bed. And will sometimes wake again anywhere between 2 and 4 am for another feed. He does go right back to sleep usually. Lately he has also been waking early morning (between 4 and 5) and talking for a bit then going back to sleep until wakeup time.

I will try to keep him up longer than 2 hours. I never even thought that maybe it was time to lengthen his awake time! Thank you!

Should I be eventually aiming for a 7pm bedtime once he starts lengthening his naps?

EDIT: I should probably mention that he is put down awake for all naps, at night he usually has a tendency to fall asleep feeding, but he is able to fall asleep independently at night too.

[peepip]

Okay, so I thought I should post what has been happening for the past 2 days

Sunday:
7.20 (WU) [woke at 4:45 for 1/2 an hour but went back to sleep]
8.30 F
9.40 - 10.10 S (A for 2hr 20min)
10.10 - 12.30 A (F at 11.30)
12.30 - 2.20 S (A for 2hr 20min - WOW changing that A time really made a huge difference this time!)
2.20 (F) - 4.30 (A)
4.30 - 5.00 (CN) (A for 2 hr 10min)
5.00 - 7.15 (A)
Bed at 7.15 - woke to feed at 12 and 2.30

Monday:
7.00 (A)
F at 7am and 7.30
8.15 solids (first solids ever!)
9.20 - 10.20 S (A for 2hr20m)
F at 10.20, solids at 11.30
PD for at 12.50, fell asleep at 1pm (no crying though) (A for 2hr 40min)
1.00 - 2.30 S
F at 3.40
PD for CN at 4.30, just cried and did not sleep...
F 5.45, PD at 6.10 - cried and did not sleep until I fed him again at 6.30, S at 6.50
Woke crying at 7pm for 5 minutes, did not need to go in as he fell back asleep himself

Really bad night. Woke at 11 and 2:30 for feeds. Then cot party at 4:30am and would not go back to sleep...

[lolsyb1982]

The A increases seem to have helped day sleep. The bad night is probably OT after the CN refusal.
Keep pushing those A times slowly until you can do without the catnap and there isn't a long stretch to bed.

You're heading in the right direction. All nap transitions are a little painful I'm afraid 

[peepip]

Thank you! I'm glad we're going in the right direction, at least with that I can handle the temporary bad nights!

[peepip]

Okay I have a few troubleshooting questions.

What do I do when he wakes up from only a 40 min nap? Do I try to keep him up until the ideal time for his next nap (so a longer AT); or put him down earlier with the correct AT?

Also, just now he woke up from his morning nap after 40 minutes, and I've been watching him on the camera. Sometimes he will cry out, but other times he will look like hes trying (but failing) to fall back asleep. Should I leave him or go and get him if he stays awake?

  this is so frustrating

EDIT: he's just woken up twice from his morning nap and fallen back asleep. The first time he was crying on and off for 20 minutes until he finally fell asleep for a whole 10 minutes, then he woke up and cried for about 5 minutes before falling asleep again... Why is he doing this?

[lolsyb1982]

40min naps can often mean LO is UT so it may be time for another small A push.

It's hard to tell you whether to keep the same A time after a short nap or not as each LO is different and some can handle it and others can't. You may need to experiment a bit there. If he stays awake

Up to you if you get him up or leave him there for a bit if he's happy. if he is UT he's not going to fall back to sleep and will probably get fed up after a while anyway.

How long have you been on the new A now?

[peepip]

It's been about 2 days??
I pushed it another 10 minutes more this morning and he did 50 minutes and wouldn't resettle. He may have been hungry though because I wasn't home to BF him and my husband may not have given him enough milk (it's hard to tell since I have no idea how many ml he takes)

I'll try again with a 3 hr A time and see how he goes this afternoon

Thanks so much for your advice! I've just learnt how to "show appreciation"

[peepip]

Hi again 

So I have been putting him down after 3 hrs A time, and he hasn't been resettling after 45 mins. Does this mean its time for another A time push? I'm worried I've been pushing his A time so much too fast??

[lolsyb1982]

If he's never resettling then yes I would say he needs more A time. Between 4-6 months I felt like A times changed weekly!

[lolsyb1982]

To add I would say you know if you've pushed A too much as you'll get 30min naps with him waking crying and generally grumpy.

[peepip]

I have another quick question. Naps have been going well. The past few days he's been taking 1.5hr naps (sometimes more!!) however, without fail, after 40-45 minutes he will wake and cry then fall back asleep. I watch him on the camera and he looks wide awake, but I wait around 10 minutes and he falls back asleep.
Why is he waking up and wide awake, then falling back asleep??

[lolsyb1982]

45 minutes is the end of his sleep cycle. At this age babies can still struggle to put sleep cycles together and will often wake but the fact he's putting himself straight back to sleep is great.

[peepip]

Hi again!
Thank you so much again for all your advice.

I did another A time push (3.15 now) and his morning nap was good (1.5 hours) but his afternoon nap was still 45 minutes again (woke up crying). Is it too much to push it to 3.30?! He's only 6.5 months.
Or maybe he just prefers long-short??

[lolsyb1982]

Glad the morning nap is working well 

It could be he needs that slightly longer A before his 2nd nap. It's not completely unreasonable for his age. If it doesn't work after a couple of days you can scale it back x

[peepip]

oh my gosh! He will be 7 months on the 8th March, and his A times are so long now - around 3h 45m - this seems way longer than average

Will I have to cut one of his naps shorter to fit everything into the day. This morning he woke at 7am so he won't take a good nap until 10.45am, in which he (hopefully) wont wake until 12/12.15pm...a 4pm nap just seems way too late for a 7.30pm bedtime 

What should I do??

[LaraAndrea]

To add I would say you know if you've pushed A too much as you'll get 30min naps with him waking crying and generally grumpy.

So I have also been trying to increase AT due to recent short naps. Since increasing her AM nap is still 45 min I usually try to extend with PU PD (rather unsuccessfully) then her next two naps she wakes after 25min and I have to help her through transition.

Would you say she is UT in the AM and OT with the PM naps??

[LaraAndrea]

To add I would say you know if you've pushed A too much as you'll get 30min naps with him waking crying and generally grumpy.

Hello, I have also been trying to increase AT to address short naps of my 5 month old.

I have been trying to extend her naps by supporting through transitions and or PU PD with limited success.

Her AM nap continues to be 45 min and her PM naps only 25 min.

Would you say she is UT for AM nap but OT with her PM naps???

[LaraAndrea]

Apologies for double post... My internet is being funny
I

[peepip]

How long is her current A time? Did you take a look at the link that lolsy shared near the top of this thread?

From what I have learnt, if they wake up either happy, or seem frustrated it's UT
if they wake up really grumpy and continue to be in a bad mood it's OT

It sounds like you may be right about UT for morning nap and OT for afternoon nap. I think if you get a short nap you need to decrease the A time before the next nap because otherwise they will just be too tired.
It's all so confusing!!

[LaraAndrea]

Thanks for your insight.

It is so confusing!! And to think 2 weeks ago I had a beautifully napping/sleeping baby. I can't even remember those days now...

I will focus on improving AM nap with longer AT but be more conservative with PM naps until that improves.

Wish me luck

[peepip]

GOOD LUCK!

Things change so quickly its hard to keep up!

[peepip]

It was all going so well until his A time increased again to around 3h 40m

To fit the day in I have been trying to cap his morning nap and having a longer afternoon nap but its just not working. I have been doing longer morning nap and shorter afternoon but his NW has increased so I thought maybe he needs a longer afternoon nap instead.

Here is what we're doing

6.15am WU
10am - 11am Nap
11am-2.40pm A
2.45pm-3.20pm Nap <- I'm trying to make this nap go from 2.45-4pm but its just not working, what am I doing wrong?
3.20pm-6.30 A
7pm Sleep

Edit- he's 7 months now