Author Topic: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo  (Read 3577 times)

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Offline cath~

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Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« on: February 02, 2017, 12:10:31 pm »
DD2 (just turned 3) hardly ever STTN.  She STTN maybe once or twice a month.  Most nights she's up 1, 2 or 3 times.  I get the impression that most times when she wakes it is because of vivid dreams. 

Usually they are at around 10pm-12.30am, and/or around 5-6am.

Some times she talks/cries out for a bit but then settles herself.  Other times I have to go to her, usually because she's kicked her duvet off and wants me to cover her up again.  Or because she's woken up and realised she needs a wee.  She's not upset really, and doesn't want me to stay with her after I've taken her to the loo or covered her up again.  It seems she goes straight back to sleep.

She falls asleep independently at BT (although I get a few callbacks most evenings, and sometimes she likes me to leave her door ajar) and doesn't nap any more. Dropping the nap lengthened her nights but didn't make any difference to the NWs.  Her nights are probably around 12hrs long or a touch less sometimes.  She has a gro clock which works very well and she doesn't ask to get up before the sun comes up.  Often, she sleeps in past it.

Just wondering really, does anyone have any suggestions on how to help her sleep more soundly?  I've ordered a lavender room spray to see if that helps.  Anything diet-related I could try?  She doesn't each sugary things or drink juice except as a treat.  She watches some TV in the afternoon when she's at nursery (3 days/week) but not at home.

Or do I just have to wait for her to grow out of this?  She STTN for about 2-3 months last summer (first and only period in her life), but since September she's been having these NWs pretty much every night.
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline becj86

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 19:03:09 pm »
I just replied to your other post about DD2! Have you considered that the sleep disturbances are a sign of her not being comfortable/happy during the day? For DS, it really is the first thing that goes if he's at all disturbed by daycare/school environment. She STTN during the summer - did that start around holiday time?

Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 21:54:51 pm »
Thanks for your replies :-* :)

No, she's been at nursery since she was 16 months... just odd weeks off when we're on holiday and I'm not working. She was still at nursery most of the time when she sttn last summer. We just had two separate weeks off I think. And she stopped sttn about 6-8 weeks before she changed to the new room at nursery, so it's not that.

I do agree though that it might be partly unsettledness, but I think just general developmental unsettledness about growing up and having more things on her mind etc, iykwim.  She was just calling out dd1's name in her sleep and sounding upset/annoyed with her, so I don't really think that nursery is necessarily to blame as such.

She's generally quite happy although still wary of lots of things, very attached to me.  But so was Dd1 too at this age.
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 12:44:37 pm »
I get the impression that most times when she wakes it is because of vivid dreams.

Usually they are at around 10pm-12.30am, and/or around 5-6am.
Sounds just like my DS.  His NWs in the early part of the night were so predictable that if he didn't make noise at 10pm or 12am I had to go and check he was still breathing. Anxiety dreams I called them. Looked and sounded similar to OT/OS but nothing in the routine could change any of it.  Based on what I know now about DS, that he is very mentally active, observant, and developmentally ahead in many aspects I now put all the sleep disturbance down to that.  Your DDs are bright aren't they? I think it could just be something that goes hand in hand with being so mentally alert and interested.  Vivid dreams and disturbed sleep or low sleep needs seems to be common in bright or gifted kids.  Could be that.


Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 15:51:16 pm »
Yeah, quite possibly creations.

Did you find anything that helped your DS sleep more soundly?
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 19:06:22 pm »
Sorry no :(
What I did realise though was that he was getting enough sleep


Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 19:24:40 pm »
Yes, I think she is. But I'm not! :P
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 21:57:28 pm »
My DS1 suffered night terrors around this age. A leading sleep specialist consultant (as in a medical doctor at a sleep clinic in a children's hospital) recommended playing soft music or white noise all night to keep a constant sleep environment.  He also told us to wake DS1 up 15 minutes after he fell asleep at bedtime.  He said that would reset his sleep cycle and he shouldn't have the night terrors.  I don't know that your DD's disturbances are NTs but I wonder if something similar might help?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline becj86

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 02:19:06 am »
For dreams, we found they were less likely to wake him if we had talked him through a relaxing narrative with cues for deep breathing and relaxing muscles etc. Also talking about his day helped with that too. BT took a long time but at least he slept!

Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 14:19:10 pm »
thanks for the ideas :)

A leading sleep specialist consultant (as in a medical doctor at a sleep clinic in a children's hospital) recommended playing soft music or white noise all night to keep a constant sleep environment.  He also told us to wake DS1 up 15 minutes after he fell asleep at bedtime.  He said that would reset his sleep cycle and he shouldn't have the night terrors.  I don't know that your DD's disturbances are NTs but I wonder if something similar might help?
that's interesting Ali. No, they're not NTs, not even nightmares I think, just seem to be quite vivid dreams.  I wonder if waking her up 15 mins later would help..  I'm a bit skeptical I have to admit, as she has been waking 3-4 times/night for the last few nights in a row now, with a ~3am WU which has just crept in.. :(  So I don't quite see how re-setting her clock by 15 mins could get rid of all the NWs.  But maybe the first one...?  Will give it a try tonight perhaps.  The white noise is a good idea to try too, although not sure what I'd use for it..

We did get a STTN last week (yay! :D) when we forgot to turn the heating off, so her room was a bit warmer than usual.  DH is wondering about trying that again...  Although I don't think it's cold that causes the NWs.  Although maybe she kicks covers off in sleep/dreams... then wakes a bit later because she is cold..?  Perhaps I could try to encourage her to wear more clothes to bed.. :-\ 

For dreams, we found they were less likely to wake him if we had talked him through a relaxing narrative with cues for deep breathing and relaxing muscles etc. Also talking about his day helped with that too. BT took a long time but at least he slept!
I've tried talking through her day a bit more with her before BT, but not loads TBH.  Haven't noticed any difference though..

I'm sooo tired today :(  really not getting any work done! :P

Ladies, at what age did your DSs' NWs/NTs stop/lessen?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 14:23:34 pm by cath~ »
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 22:31:00 pm »
If it was me I'd try the heating!!  I'd try anything (almost) to get a good night!
Maybe some fleecy pjs?

Ladies, at what age did your DSs' NWs/NTs stop/lessen?
Sorry can't really remember...well not sure they've actually stopped!!  He still pretty regularly wakes with a great big moan, cry out or yelling some time before midnight.  Mostly he just goes back off to sleep though so it feels less because it is not as traumatic as when he was younger.

Like you though Cath, I always felt DS's were vivid dreams, some anxiety from the day, not NT or NM - the descriptions I read from various sources didn't seem to fit for those.

Do you have a night light in the room?  Try one?  Or get rid of one?
DS has had a night light to fall asleep to for ages now (when the dark room no longer suited him) but I turn it off when I go to bed..what is left though is an even smaller night light, it's a glow from his monitor button, it's just enough to see in the dark if he needs to get up for a wee in the night.  Relatively recently I decided to turn that off too and go back to total black out through the night (not at BT, he still has the night light on for falling to sleep) and it has helped him sleep more soundly. He wasn't convinced it was a good idea but once we tried it he realised he slept better.

The white noise is a good idea to try too, although not sure what I'd use for it..
Do you have a radio you can de-tune just to try out the white noise??
Or a CD player, you can burn free white noise (or pink noise or brown noise, or blue noise...) from various on-line sites onto a CD then play it on repeat.


Offline -Maya-

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 08:44:20 am »
Cath, about the cold in the room, I am obsessed by that. Infact I still use sleeping bags for DS :)
I suggest to put her a heavier pj + socks and maybe reduce the number of blankets. In this case she will be less cold when she kicks off all the cover. In case of 3 NW, they may not have the same cause. Maybe ruling out one of the causes can reduce the number of NW.

Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 08:58:11 am »
If it was me I'd try the heating!!  I'd try anything (almost) to get a good night!
Maybe some fleecy pjs?


I suggest to put her a heavier pj + socks and maybe reduce the number of blankets.

Thank you both :)

I'm going to suggest to her that she wears a cardigan tonight (on top of her vest+PJs).  She's quite opinionated about what she wears but I think I might be able to persuade her to go for a cardigan (she's asked to wear one before at night time).

We might leave the heating on, although the night when she STTN (when the heating was on), I woke up at 3am cos I was too hot and had to go downstairs to turn it off :P  So maybe we'll try it on but a slightly lower setting.

I've been using a lavender room spray the last few nights, but haven't noticed any difference.  It smells nice at BT but it's all gone by the morning, so I don't think it lasts long enough to have much lasting effect.

I'm tempted to try this though (once it's back in stock..):
http://www.nealsyardremedies.com/aromatherapy/aromatherapy-oils-and-blends/essential-oil-blends/0353.html#start=1

Although it's not that cheap..

Do you have a night light in the room?  Try one?  Or get rid of one?
Yes, she has a nightlight, which she asks me to put on each night.  I could try turning it off after she's asleep and see if that helps.

Do you have a radio you can de-tune just to try out the white noise??
Or a CD player, you can burn free white noise (or pink noise or brown noise, or blue noise...) from various on-line sites onto a CD then play it on repeat.
will give this a go too.

I guess I should try these things one by one in a methodical manner, so I know exactly which thing helps!  I'll start with more PJs/layers at BT, as it seems that heat helped once before.

I think some of the NWs are a bit habit now too, as they always seem to be at the same times.  So might try waking her shortly after she nods off, like Ali suggested, to see if that can help "re-set" her too...

Thanks for all the ideas everyone.  It's good to have a list of things I can try :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:00:05 am by cath~ »
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

Offline cath~

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2017, 10:01:22 am »
just wanted to share a spot of good news with you :)

So, Tuesday night was terrible.  Her worst since she was a baby/ill I think.  I had to go to her 4 times during the night and she was crying out more times than that too.  I was absolutely shattered yesterday.

Last night I suggested to her to turn off her night light.  She agreed at first but then at BT wanted it on.  Anyway it's on a chest of drawers so after turning it on I discretely put some objects in front of it to try and block some of the light a bit.  Not sure how much difference it made really, but she didn't notice/complain (so probably not much difference!).  I also put a blanket over her duvet and tucked in under the mattress on both sides.

At 10-10.30 pm she cried out 2-3 times, but I didn't need to go to her.  At 12.30pm she cried out and I had to go to her.  She was sitting up at the bottom of the bed, on top of her duvet and blanket (which was still tucked in).  I told her to lie down again and re-secured the blanket under the mattress.  Then she slept through without a peep until 7am when she woke up, called for DD1 (as she always does in the morning), but DD1 was still asleep so I went in and she was lying there all nicely tucked in still under her blanket and duvet ;D

So I am going to keep tucking her in securely each night and hope that this does the trick!  Seems so obvious I don't know why I didn't try it before.  I guess because she had been sleeping OK under just a duvet up until recently..  (well, she'd woken up, but not because of losing her duvet).

I think dreams are still disturbing her a bit but really it was the losing of the duvet that was upsetting her and causing her to call for me.  So please keep your fingers crossed that this works!  I feel so much better today after having slept soundly from 12.30-6.30am (when DH's alarm went off) ;D
DD1 - 8 years old
DD2 - 5 years old

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Re: Sleep disturbances in 3 yo
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2017, 11:58:21 am »
Yay!!! Hurrah for a better night and FX for more of them too :)