21 week old, NWs and EW

[VnessMorris]

Hi everyone,

DD2 has been waking every 4-5 hours overnight and is usually looking for her morning feed from 5:30-6am. She had been STTN (8-10 hours) but this past 2 weeks she isn't. I posted about this on the Nap board as she was also fighting her catnap and waking at the 30-40min mark during naps. (4.5 month old; developmental Or 3:2 transition?). I've been extending her A times as she seems generally happy with  2:15-2:20 resulting in good naps. I've been giving her capped catnaps in order to get her to 7-7:30pm bedtimes without getting OT. However, yesterday she reverted back to A times of 1:55-2:00 and very cranky all day .

Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong causing her to have NWs and EWs?

Other factors: she just started solids this week. Otherwise she's breast fed. Night feedings are by bottle (EBM) and generally eats well (3-6oz). She's also turning and trying to sit up.

[FPT23]

Hi!

Sorry to hear about the bad nights i know how rough they can be. Hang in there mom! Many hugs!

I do want  you  to know that there is nothing you are doing wrong! You are actually right smack dab at the beginning of the good ol 4mth regression. There are many factors to this regression.

1: mobility- many little babies master rolling and can roll one way and not the other. This can possiblity disrubt sleep for some babies. They also become increasingly more aware of their surroundings, which causes extra stimulation! They are just so into their growing lives !!!! Some more mobile babies may start to attempt trying to get to a seated position. If she is swaddled this is probably a tougher time as many try to get out of it by now too

2. A time: their activity time increases! With this comes changes to their routine and the start of the 3-2 nap transition. If you can possibly list her EASY maybe we can help some there also. They seem to take quite a bit of an A.time leap from here on out. She might not be ready for 2 naps but the changes can certainly start now

3: Developmental: sleep changes at this time. In other words- their sleep turns more into adult sleep. They no longer just stay asleep and remain asleep .....they wake easier. Because of this, right now is a good time to figure out any sleep associations, as she may be now NEEDING it to sleep and wont transition into her next sleep cycle without it. Is she used to being rocked to sleep, nursed, paci, etc. She will soon learn to sleep independently if she hasnt started already....in the next few weeks

4: Growth spurt! There is a big GS at this age. Being BF and with the new increase in A time, just make sure she is getting enough milk in her days to avoid her waking at nights out of hunger. Nws start to happen bc they really can be waking out of hunger... as a BF baby i would treat as a feed. I did at this time, and in time that extra NW just went away. I just treated it asba NF just in case since i was BFing. Also, any reason you started solids earlier?

Lastly, always make sure you rule out pain and discomfort. Tummy troubles, reflux... etc

Hope this helps! Xo

[VnessMorris]

Thanks for the reply and info, FTP23! I've answered your q's below in red:

1: mobility- many little babies master rolling and can roll one way and not the other. This can possiblity disrubt sleep for some babies. They also become increasingly more aware of their surroundings, which causes extra stimulation! They are just so into their growing lives !!!! Some more mobile babies may start to attempt trying to get to a seated position. If she is swaddled this is probably a tougher time as many try to get out of it by now too. Yes, DD2 has been rolling front to back and now back to front. We stopped swaddling at 3 months b/c of her mobility. I've also noticed that she's easily distracted while BF'ing; she loves staring at things in her nursery and will pull off to get a closer look!

2. A time: their activity time increases! With this comes changes to their routine and the start of the 3-2 nap transition. If you can possibly list her EASY maybe we can help some there also. They seem to take quite a bit of an A.time leap from here on out. She might not be ready for 2 naps but the changes can certainly start now. I've definitely seen her pushing her A times. I follow her cues and for about a week she was happy with A times of 2:15-2:20. However, I still giver her 2:00 naps with these elongated A times making her 4 hour EASy more like 4.5 hour EASY....She was also fighting her CNs like crazy so the only way I could get her to CN (capped to 15/20mins so that she's not OT) was to APOP via rocking, sleeping on me etc...But, in the past couple of days, by following her sleepy cues, she cut her A times back to 2:00's.  So, we're back to 2 naps and a regular CN. Here is her EASY routine from yesterday:

E. 7am BF
8am solids
A. 2:00
S. 9:05 - 11:15am  shh/pat for 1 min to sleep

E. 11:15am BF
A. 2:08
S. 1:30pm - 2:36pm (shh/pat for 5 mins to sleep. Shh/pat for last 30mins...woke her up early due to escalation)

E. 2:36pm BF
Solids 4pm
A. 2:27! No sleepy cues and took longer to get to sleep even with shh/pat (fighting the CN)
CN. 5:07pm - 5:37pm

E. 5:45pm BF
A. 1:47
E. 7pm BF
S. 7:20pm awake in crib. Fell asleep on her own.

NW 3:15am BF. Back into crib awake. Mantra crying.
NW @4:30am. Flipped onto front. Shhh/pat for 15 mins back asleep until 7am WU

3: Developmental: sleep changes at this time. In other words- their sleep turns more into adult sleep. They no longer just stay asleep and remain asleep .....they wake easier. Because of this, right now is a good time to figure out any sleep associations, as she may be now NEEDING it to sleep and wont transition into her next sleep cycle without it. Is she used to being rocked to sleep, nursed, paci, etc. She will soon learn to sleep independently if she hasnt started already....in the next few weeks. Right now, she goes into the crib awake/drowsy for all naps and bedtimes (except for those capped CNs where I use APOP to get her sleep!). She doesn't use a pacifier.


4: Growth spurt! There is a big GS at this age. Being BF and with the new increase in A time, just make sure she is getting enough milk in her days to avoid her waking at nights out of hunger. Nws start to happen bc they really can be waking out of hunger... as a BF baby i would treat as a feed. I did at this time, and in time that extra NW just went away. I just treated it asba NF just in case since i was BFing. Also, any reason you started solids earlier? . It does seem like she's hungry during these NWs (e.g., full feeds). We started solids as our pediatrician indicated we could do so.  I've only given solids as an experience/activity rather than for calories (usually an hour after BF). She doesn't want to eat much of the solids anyway

Lastly, always make sure you rule out pain and discomfort. Tummy troubles, reflux... etc

Thank you for looking over all of this!

Hope this helps! Xo

[VnessMorris]

Hi

Just an update. I think whatever is going on with the EW and NWs is due to hunger. I'm trying to increase her daily intake of BM by 5oz (the amount she generally takes during NF). I was thinking about BFing and then try and top up with EBM via bottle? I'm also pumping an hour after every feed to up my supply.

Any other suggestions on how I can increase her daytime intake?
Ps. I've stopped giving her solids.

TIA!
V.

[VnessMorris]

Hi

Just thought I would update this post in case anyone else is having similar problems.

So, the NWs and EWs were solved with upping her calories during the day. I would BF every 4 hours and then top her up after each feed. Each feed would go like this: She would fuss at the Breast early into the feeding. And then happily take another 1.5-2oz of EBM immediately  afterwards. I would then pump an hour after BF (only 1-1.5oz pumped). By the 3rd day of doing this routine, DD2 is back STTN of 8-9 hours and only one NF (I do not DF). Her naps have also reverted back to 1:45-2:00 hours each and her catnaps are back to "normal". It's been a week now and she no longer needs the top up. I still continue to pump an hour after every BF to keep my supply up.

Hope this helps.

[FPT23]

I'm glad the feeding thing was what it was and helped in the end !

Xo thanks for the love!

[trishr]

Thank you so much for posting this, including the resolution.  My daughter is 18 weeks old and going through the same thing and I have the exact same schedule as you posted above in red.  My issue is that she is a great sleeper - loves to sleep and I am afraid that by trying to "fix it" so she sleeps longer at night that I will mess something else up   I am curious why you do not do a DF?  I find this to be particularly difficult with my DD which surprised me since I had no trouble with my first daughter.  When I try to DF it either wakes her completely or she is so passed out that it is pointless.  I am also BF exclusively and trying to increase my supply.  I have to go back to work on Monday   I am going to borrow your strategy of getting her to eat more at each feed and then just continue to cluster at night (5:45 and 7) and see if this works.  Since she had been waking throughout the night I assumed she needed that DF even though it was torture on us both.  It is encouraging to see it work so well for you in a different way.  Maybe it can for me as well!

[VnessMorris]

Hi trishr,

Glad to hear we are not alone with this!

As for your question about not doing the DF, it's just a lifestyle choice for me. I am usually in bed about an hour after both DDs are asleep and the DF timing just doesn't work out. Also, I tried to DF DD1 and ended up waking her. Same with DD2! So, that was the end of the DF for us.

I hope this helps!
V.