Author Topic: 7 Month old 30 minute naps  (Read 475 times)

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Offline newfather

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7 Month old 30 minute naps
« on: February 18, 2017, 17:16:12 pm »
My almost 7 month old (30 weeks) daughter is stuck on ~30 minute naps and has been for a while now.  Perhaps twice a week she will take a longer nap around 1 hour 20 minutes but this is in no way predicyable or reliable.  Her typical routine is below - she is breast fed after waking from each nap so i have not noted feeding times.  She is also on around 2 meals a day of solids (BLW) and self settles for all naps in the cot and at bedtime - we do a short wind down, put her in the cot and wait outside the room with the door shut. Typically she will either settle herself without crying or have to be picked up and put back down just once.

Bedtime is around 7:30pm and she typically wakes 3 times in the night, 2 on a good night.  I resettle her if she wakes before 1am and the other 2 wakings she gets a breastfeed.





A 7:30am
S 10:30am
A 11am
S 2pm
A 2:30pm
S 5pm
A 5:30pm
Bedtime 7:30pm

A times range from a low of 2h30 to 3h15 at the most.  She is increasingly starting to wake from these naps in a bad mood.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 19:34:44 pm »
Hi there
It sounds to me like your LO is UT 9under tired).  Whilst the guidance A times for a 7 month old are 3hr 15 some LOs need longer than this for one or more of their A times to enable them to sleep well.  The grumpy mood on waking suggests to me she is tired but not tired enough to transition into a nice restorative sleep of more than one sleep cycle, so she is annoyed, frustrated, tired.  The build up of tiredness is likely leading to those random longer naps you see a couple of times per week where she eventually gets so tired she can transition between cycles and sleep longer.

Some people prefer to increase one A time at a time. Others like to go across the day in one hit to re-establish a suitable routine. it is up to you really.
I would begin by increasing the first A time (or all A times) to 3hr 15 mins and and after 2-3 days if naps have not lengthened then increase to 3hr 30 (perhaps just on the first A time rather than all and see how it goes)

I would also suggest doing a round or two of W2S
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Put a hand on her and help her transition through from one sleep cycle to the next either with a firm hand and a key phrase if you have one or with patting or your usual soothing method. The idea is that you help her before she fully wakes. This is to help to establish a habit of a longer nap.
Usually you'd do this for about 3 days and hold off on day 4 to see if LO transitions alone. If not try to resettle her then continue another round of W2S the following day.

Sometimes BT needs to move a bit to fit with changing nap lengths so just tweak that as needed until you can settle into a new routine.

Hope this helps


Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 11:23:07 am »
Thanks very much - we'll give this a go.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 11:36:59 am »
Just wanted to say thanks for the advice - after 3h15 awake time and two short naps the first day, the second day she took two 1h20 naps and has continued taking at least one of her two naps long than an hour since then.  She has also moved out to a 3h30 awake time fairly naturally. It's still not predictable which nap she will take as a long nap and we have had the odd day here and there where she still takes two short naps but on the whole vastly improved.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 13:30:36 pm »
That's great news. Always lovely to read a positive update and thanks for taking the time to post.

Whilst her routine sounds much improved you may be able to improve further by increasing one of her A times again. It's what I would suggest to try to get one consistent long nap (plus a second nap whether it is short or long). If A times are now 3hr 30 I would increase say the first A time to 3hr 45 and hold it there for several days to see if that morning nap can become consistently 1.5hr.  I always felt that if I could trust the first nap to be a good one the whole day felt better, even if nap 2 was a CN.  As she gets older anyway you will gradually need the routine to be more of a one long nap one short nap to fit the naps and A times lengths into the day and maintain a reasonable bed time.


Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 12:00:11 pm »
Well, we've tried 3h45 as her first awake time but unfortunately all seems to have gone to pot again.  3h45 first awake time, 3h30 for second awake time and then whatever is left over to get to bedtime and we're lucky to be getting naps over 30 minutes at the minute.

I have a hunch (hope?) this is developmental as we are in the middle of one of the Wonder Weeks and night wakings have ticked back upwards as well.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 09:24:35 am »
How old is your LO now?
Would you like to post your EAS times, maybe for yesterday if you have them recorded and I'll have a look to see if anything catches my eye?  Also a note about her mood or behaviour when you start the wind down, when she wakes etc.


Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 08:46:32 am »
She's 33 weeks today (34 weeks adjusted).

We've tried pushing her A time to 4 hours, starting on Saturday.  We got a long first nap but still around a 30 minute second nap.  Repeated that on Sunday but she woke after 33 minutes for the first nap - I was able to resettle her and she slept for a further 54 minutes, second nap was 33 mins.  Routine for the last two days:

Saturday
Up for day 6:55
S 10:56
A 12:14
S 4:16
A 4:47
Bedtime 7:30 (asleep at 7:38)

Sunday
Up for day 7:07
S 11:09
A 11:43, resettled and put back into cot at 11:48 then slept to 12:42
S 4:40
A 5:13
Bedtime 7:30 (asleep at 7:37)

She hasn't had a problem with the 4 hour A time - she's happy and active up until the 4 hours.  I tried to put her down at 3h45 awake time for Sunday's second nap just in case the two 4 hour blocks were too much for her but she wasn't ready to go to sleep and I had to take her back downstairs for some quiet play time until 4 hours.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 08:48:19 am by newfather »

Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 09:03:33 am »
I'll add how her night sleep is at the minute too, for completeness.

After bedtime she will sleep through to around 11:40pm.  I resettle her at this point and she will go back to sleep pretty easily.  She'll then sleep for around another hour until 12:40/12:45 and get her first night BF.

Once back in the cot she will wake up somewhere between 2:58am (I kid you not - woke at this exact time two nights in a row) and 3:10 and I will resettle her once again.  This generally takes slightly longer and there is some crying but generally takes 10-15 minutes.  She'll sleep until around 4:30-4:45 and feed again.  This is where things change - there's a 50/50 chance that she will go back to sleep after this feed and sleep until she gets up for the day or alternatively she will completely refuse to settle for well over an hour.  Friday night/Saturday morning this happened and she was up for around 90 minutes; last night she settled immediately.

I know this is all stuff for the Night wakings forum but I'm adding it here to give a complete picture.  We're smack bang in the middle of the Wonder Week 33/37 period and have just had her first top tooth through a week ago with another one or possibly two ready to come through.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 20:43:56 pm »
That's helpful info.  it's good to see what happens through the night too as night sleep effects day sleep and day sleep effects night sleep.  It's useful to see where the NWs are and if they might be linked to nap times/lengths or A times/lengths etc.

So, my thoughts.  4hrs A is a long time for this age, some will do 4hrs of course but it is on the long side of things.It looks to me like she was OT for her naps on this length A time as the 33min nap indicates inability to fully relax and move through the stages of sleep.  However, it also looks like there is a chance that she might adapt quickly to the first A time being 4hrs, I say this based on your ability to resettle her and she did pretty well afterwards and the effect it had on the following days WU time (she went right back to sleep after that last NF and slept until morning).  I will also say though, my thoughts are based on a very short period of time, two days is not much to go by.  I would suggest then that if you feel 4hr A time is suitable you do it just for the first A time of the day, not the second too.  the second A time I would bring back to 3hr 30.

The night feeds - just something to consider.  Rather than resettling her at 11.40pm and 3am what if she was fed instead?  She is waking again an hour later to eat so there is a chance you can reduce the NWs down to just the feed times and the last NF could work better to avoid that risky time when she may or may not go back to sleep.  Here's how it might look
BT feed 7/7.30 (you usual time)
NF 11.30 (this is 4hrs since last feed, a normal amount of time really)
NF 3.30 (my guess is that the 3am NW might just move a little later based on feed times, 4hr since last feed) this is an easier time of night to resettle LO, when NWs approach 5am ish it is much harder to get them back to sleep IMO.
WU feed 7/7.30 (this is now approx 4hrs since last feed - it avoids a problem you have not mentioned which is lack of hunger at WU feed which could become more difficult further down the line)

It is of course just something to consider.

For the naps then. I would try 3hr 45 or 4hr for first A time if you feel this is working or she might settle into it - and if you go in at 25 mins into the sleep to do a W2S you might find it much easier than her fully waking at 33mins and having to fully resettle her. This can really help to get a better sleep.
Then 3hr 30 for second A time and if possible do W2S on this one too. Use the link for guidance but alter the time you go in, you need to be in there an ready with a hand on her or hovering to help soother her through as she stirs, so I'd go in at 25 mins and stay to help as long as needed.

Hope this helps. It can take a while to settle onto a new routine and certainly developmental leaps and teething will cause all sorts of disturbance!


Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2017, 21:04:14 pm »
Thanks very much. We'll try that tonight.

We got an hour for the first nap today and for the second 1h40, but resettled after 37 minutes. She did resettle very easily. We'll pull the second A time back a bit tomorrow.

Your help is greatly appreciated, hopefully we continue to get some improvement.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 08:58:47 am »
So, the mischievous little one was listening to us and decided to change her plans which confused things a bit.  The night went as such

Asleep in cot at 7:42.
First waking at 10:50. Feed, back into cot and settled by 11:08
Second waking - 1:22.  Resettled into the cot, asleep again within 5 minutes.
Third waking - 3:35.  Feed, back into cot and settled by 3:55.
Fourth waking - 5:54.  Feed again.
Up for day at 6:40.

Not sure whether I should have resettled her at the first waking to get her back in line with what she usually does.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 19:00:43 pm »
Although the night went a bit differently than expected to me the only one I am not sure about feeding at is the 5.54am feed as it is only 2.5hrs since the last feed and really she ought to be able to go from 3.30/3.55 until a morning WU time of 6.30/7am without needing more food as it's only 3.5/4hrs max.

See how things pan out though, it always take a little time to see how LO is going to settle into a routine whether it is naps or nights or both.  In a few more days a pattern of NWs might settle or you might see some changes in the naps etc.

Your help is greatly appreciated, hopefully we continue to get some improvement.
You're very welcome. Well be here when you are ready to update.


Offline newfather

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 11:30:04 am »
Well after that we had a couple of pretty good nights - two nights in a row where she was only awake at 12:30 and either 4:00 or 4:30 to feed then through to waking up at 6:30-6:45.  Then unfortunately she's come down with a dose of the cold and, as of last night, some more teething as well so things have degraded a bit after that short good spell.

Naps are still not showing much progress - resettling sometimes but still no real progress.  We're persisting with 4 hours for the first wake time and 3h30-3h40 for the second.  We still aren't getting much past 35 minutes.

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Re: 7 Month old 30 minute naps
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2017, 19:29:00 pm »
The nights sound like they are much improved even though the teething and a cold have come along to disrupt things.

With the naps, a few questions:
- Is she falling to sleep independently for naps now?
- What is her mood prior to the nap and after?
- What happens if you do not use W2S and are not there to resettle her?  Does she stay quiet or cry for you?
- Have you tried pain meds before naps to see if it helps (teething pain can make transition from one sleep cycle to the next more difficult)?