6 month old nap and night time help needed

[Elsam]

Hi all,

I am looking for some guidance from experienced mums on the board. My son just turned 6 months last week. He has never been a great night time sleeper and wakes often every 2 hours. He has done 3 - 4 hour stretches very rarely. He naps ( 1 hr +)  ok for a couple of weeks and  then for a couple of weeks he wakes up at the 35 - 40 minute intervals and then needs to be fed back to sleep and he does another 40 mins to an hour.

He was tightly swaddled until 5 months. I then eased him one hand free and one hand swaddled for couple of weeks and just last week out of the swaddle now.

He has this week started being up for almost 2 - 2 hr 15 awake time. He can sleep on his own in his cot usually within 5 minutes which is why I am wary of pushing his awake times.

FEED
He is on solids for two meals and is exclusively breastfed.
During the day he feeds for 10 - 12 mins at a stretch often less. At night time, he feeds 6 - 7 minutes.

His rough Eat-Play-Sleep routine is as follows (This is what has been happening for the last week)

NAPS

* Wakes around 6:45 but feeds and sleeps till 8 AM
* Is ready for a nap by 9:45 - I keep taking him out etc. to keep him up for some more time. But generally sleeps by 10:00.  A time approx 2 hours
* Wakes at 10:35 or 10:40 and is usually crying. Most often fed or patted back to sleep for another 30 - 45 mins
* Up by 11:15. Then breastfeed and solids. Play time on mat. Usually sleeps after 2 hr 10 mins max.
* Again last couple of days wakes at 35 mins - 40 mins. Can be resettled sometimes.
* Generally up by 2:45 PM. Another catnap around 5:10 to 5:40.
* Solids and then breastfeed. Sleep by 8:30 PM

Early bedtime often does not work for us because of my husband's work schedule.
I tried wake to sleep 3 weeks back at the 23 minute mark and it seemed to improve naps and he was doing a stretch of 1 hr - 1hr 20 mins.
LAst week again started waking at the 40 minute mark and I tried wake to sleep Fri, Sat, Sunday at 23 minutes. He did a long stretch 1 day only after this.

But yesterday and today he has been waking up at 35 minutes (previously 40 minutes). The only change that has happened is his wake time has increased a bit last couple of days.

BED TIME

* Gap between last nap and bedtime is 2.5 hrs to 2.75 hrs.
* Here again, he normally goes to sleep on his own but he wakes up after 40 - 50 minutes screaming. Needs to be patted or fed to sleep.
* Although yesterday he did a stretch of 3 hours before waking up. Last month he was often doing initial stretches of 2 - 2.5 hours.
* After this he is up every 2 hours and feeds to sleep. I am starting to stop this feeding. However, when I pat him to sleep he normally wakes up after an hour.

Apologies for the long post. But really appreciate any assistance in troubleshooting his naps and bedtime. Particularly:
1. 35 minute wake up at naps. This was previously 40 minutes until his wake time stretched this week. Does 35 minutes mean overtired?
2. Should I do another round of wake to sleep - should this be at 23 minutes?
3. Why does he some times wake up at night t 40 minutes screaming.
4. Tips on his night time wake ups - I am not keen on making him cry a lot, it just breaks my heart
Thanks a lot.

[jessmum46]

Hi there and welcome, hope we can help!

A few thoughts....so 2h-2h15 is really quite a short A time for a 6 month old, and it looks to me like some of your issues might be caused by needing to increase A time and work towards 2 naps rather than 3.  I suspect you have a bit of a feed prop at night as well (does he go to sleep feeding at the start of the night?) and you are getting into a bit of an UT/OT loop.  By that I mean that because he has a disturbed night, he is tired early in the day and so wants a nap after a short A time - so is undertired for his nap and can't sleep past 35-40 mins (my DD did undertired 37 minute naps for ages until someone here pointed it out!).  I imagine though that he has accumulated enough over tiredness to be resettled after that first short nap which is why you are getting a fairly decent length first nap, albeit unsettled.  The second nap however is probably UT again, then by the end of the day he is getting OT from an accumulation of short/disturbed naps - and that is typically the cause for screaming wakings in the first 2-3 hours after bedtime.  (Hope that makes sense!)

My suggestion from the routine point of view would be over the next couple of weeks work on extending his A time and trying to drop to 2 naps.  I would start from the beginning of the day, and if his nap is typically after 2h A currently, push that out to 2h15 and then hold it there for a few days.  Unless he is literally dropping asleep in your arms this really shouldn't be hard to do - distract with a change of scene, walk round the garden looking at things and just talking, low-key play.....it may feel tough to begin with and you may also get a bad nap until he gets used to it - but try to persist for a few days before bumping up to 2h30.  Once you get to around 2h45-3h or so you can generally make it though the day on two naps   It's up to you if you push the second A time as well as the first, or just work on the first one for now, but if your first nap is halfway decent (even if you needed to resettle) then I probably would try pushing the second A time a bit too since you are currently getting short naps.  The worst that can happen is another short nap - which is what is happening anyway!

I know EBT can be a bit tough on working families but it can be a good short-term help during nap transitions if you are able to do it.  Overtired babies aren't the best company anyway   My rules (adapted for an 8-8 day) were that if second nap ended at 4pm or later, I would do EBT of 7pm or 3h A time after second nap.  If nap ended before 3pm I would try for a catnap and normal bedtime (8/8.30pm).  3-4pm was a bit of a grey zone - if I could easily get a quick catnap in I would, but DD would usually refuse so I would tend to go for the EBT of 7pm even if that was a long A time.  A late catnap and late bedtime just led to less sleep overall.

With the night times do you think your husband would be willing to help?  Perhaps he could try to resettle some of the wakings for you? 

The only other thing that may be worth doing is just having a think about your feeding - I can only see 3 daytime breastfeeds in there, is that right?  I would try to get at least 4 good daytime feeds in at this age and possibly think about moving your solids to earlier in the day.  I'm just wondering if the late solids may be causing a bit of tummy upset and contributing to the rough nights?

[Elsam]

Thank you so much jessmum46. Truly appreciated.

I will try stretching his wake times from tomorrow and see how it goes.

One quick question - he has had two wake ups the past week at 25 minutes. He has never woken up at 25 minutes before, so not sure what has happened? Is this overtired?

Thanks a lot!

[jessmum46]

25 mins is around the transition from light to deep sleep. I found mine would occasionally wake or stir them when in discomfort e.g. teething. 

How has it been going?

[Elsam]

Hi Katherine,

Thanks for the reply.

I am on day #2 of extending A times. Summary as follows:

DAY 1 (Yesterday)
Nap 1 - Extended awake time to 2 hr 15 mins - Nap 33 mins, resettled
Nap 2 - Extended awake time to 2 hr 25 mins - Nap 40 mins, resettled

DAY 2 (Today)
Nap 1 - Awake time 2 hr 15 mins - Nap 1 hr 8 mins
Nap 2 - Awake time 2 hr 30 mins - Nap 1 hr 20 mins

If I dont hear from you, I will keep these tomorrow as well.

Do you suggest I extended these again after tomorrow? Any other suggestions?

Since I last posted, we had two night times with 5 hour stretches, however, last two nights have been bad. Will keep persisting.

Thanks,
Elsa

[Elsam]

Quick update for yesterday and today, in case someone can offer suggestions

DAY 2
Nap 3 - Awake time - 2.5 hrs - Catnap - 30 mins up at 5:37 PM
Bed time - 8:33 PM (almost 3 hrs up time) - was this too late? woke up after 30 mins and 50 mins crying. Fed at 50 mins.

DAY 3
Nap 1- Awake time - 2 hr 17 mins - 45 mins. Could not resettle.
Nap 2 - Awake time - 2 hr 30 mins - up at 34 mins resettled slept for another 36 mins.

Hope someone can offer suggestions on how to continue next few days.

Thanks,
Elsa

[jessmum46]

Hi, sorry to be a bit slow getting back to you.  I hope you had a good weekend?

I think you are probably on the right lines pushing A times, but could you post the whole day for me with clock times including WU?  Just makes it slightly easier to see things like how long the day is overall

I suspect the 3h after a catnap was too much, yes.  Usually the A time after a catnap is pretty short, certainly not a full A time - it's really just to tide them over to bedtime, not push bedtime later if that makes sense?  I would probably have gone for around 7.30pm or so, but you live and learn!  How was the night after the first couple of wakings?

[Elsam]

That's fine, Katherine. Appreciate your efforts.

Here are the times yesterday

    Woke up - 6:45 AM - Feed and sleep. Up at 7:48 AM
    Nap 1 at 10:11 AM - A time - 2 hr 23 mins
    Woke up - 11:15 AM
    Feed + Solids
    Nap 2 at 1:44 PM - A time - 2hr 29 mins
    Cried out after 1 hr 2 mins - resettled and slept for another 15 minutes - Total nap - 1 hr 17 mins
    Woke up - 3:01 PM
    Feed
    Catnap at 5:25 PM - A time - 2 hr 24 mins - Nap Length - 28 mins.
    Woke up - 5:53 PM
    Feed + Solids
    Bedtime - 8:24 PM - A time - 2 hr 30 mins

    Up every 2 hours last night. But there was no wake up at 40/ 50 mins.


1. What A time should I be aiming for after the catnap?
2. Should I keep stretching the A times again every couple of days. The first A time, he is really struggling at 2.5 hrs. I have to play actively with him to keep him up.

Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it.

Elsa

[Elsam]

Today, he woke up at 7:15 and went back to sleep till 7:50. I probably should have gotten him up at 7:15.

Anyway, he slept at 10:20, so awake time (2.5 hrs). But he was up within 35 mins and resettled another 10 - 12 mins. So, am stumped again.

Anyway got him up to see how he will do for the next nap.

[jessmum46]

I think after a good night that was probably an UT first nap.....

A time after the catnap I would keep short, potentially just 2h or so